Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.26.17 - Day 4

[Ms.elle]

Just got home from Toronto not too long ago. Really still processing everything that went on today. So for now, I don’t have anything to say.

We can only imagine how much you have to digest. Still, be proud of yourself. Testifying in any trial is not easy but in one like this with so much media attention and scrutiny and such a tragic case is something that's beyond words. You did well. Wherever she is, I'm sure Laura is grateful to you for it.

 

[huntergerrard]

Regarding the civil suit filed by TB's family, suing DM and the other parties - this was filed long before the trial started for TB's murder. It helps see that every means is used to hold those responsible accountable. Another court, the Supreme Court, finding guilt, another level of accountability.
JMO

I believe it is also to prevent any future profits of his crime such as book deals, movie deals, etc. Much like OJ Simpson, if Dellen has any funds or profits it would go to the victim's family. JMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Laura Babcock murder trial day 4
http://www.chch.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-day-4/

Later in the afternoon we heard from 27-year-old Andrew Gordon, who was a friend of Dellen Millard’s since 2008. They met through another friend, Matt Hagerman, whose grandmother was Millard’s nanny.

The friends would gather at Millard’s Etobicoke home to smoke marijuana and play video games. At first Gordon was dating a woman named Christina Noudga and Millard was dating Laura Babcock. At some point, Noudga started dating Millard.

We could hear more about that relationship tomorrow, a friend of Christina Noudga’s is expected to testify.

 

[JPC]

Murder trial told of constant party scene at Dellen Millard home, linked to alleged love triangle
Millard’s bungalow was a hub of fun and games before his arrest, an old friend testified. But it was the people who visited that mattered most Thursday
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-millard-home-linked-to-alleged-love-triangle

I still think that it says a lot about DM that he didn't seem to have friends that were his own age. He would have been 21 when these kids were 16.


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[Ms.elle]

No you can't:

oops. my bad. it used to be that way. surprisingly, even after 9/11.

 

[winter2017]

I wish they had the death sentence in Canada in the states these two would be put to death. When there is so much evidence of guilt then that should mean the death sentence in M1. CN should be locked up to , there is no way she should be out there free. She was an accessory IMO and she got a high priced lawyer to get a less charge. DM was destined to be a criminal. It is how he thinks. He is always thinking of ways he can get away with things, so it was his destiny to be a criminal and end up in prison. It is what I think of people who join gangs , it is a high risk lifestyle where you end up dead or in prison. I know people who have friends that are in prison.

 

[swedie]

I would think that could do more harm than good, tbh... Based on her testimony at the first trial, she'd likely just feign ignorance of the true meaning anyway. Waste of time and energy. Plus, if the Crown calls her as a witness, then DM has opportunity to examine her, leaving the door wide open for a whole lot of bs 'possibilities' as to what happened to Laura to be introduced. That stone is better left unturned, imo. The message itself is enough.

It could also go the other way though by catching CN up in lies. The jury has already heard there is evidence coming, the text DM sent to CN and I don't see how she can weasel out of that evidence other than to play dumb, which she didn't do well with during TB's trial. I have fate in the jurors they will see right through this bimbo if she is called to the stand. She told so many lies in TB's trial it would probably be hard for her to keep her stories straight and she will slip up.

IMO the evidence is what it is and not looking favourable for DM and MS already, so I see no harm in the Crown calling her as a witness...better than DM calling her as a witness (which I doubt he will, but who knows how this psycho's brain works). Could DM be very bitter at CN for encouraging him to murdering LB? We know narcissists have a very difficult time accepting blame so... would he like to bring her down along with him? :dunno:

Besides maybe she will perjure herself on the stand and LE can nab her on that, tossing her back into jail where she belongs. ALL MOO.

 

[winter2017]

We need the death sentence for people like DM and MS.

 

[drhart905]

What doesn't make sense to me is that, one, there is evidence that states MS threw Laura's body in the lake and two, her body was burned in that eliminator thing. Can someone please explain this conflicting information or am I misinterpreting it?

 

[swedie]

I wish they had the death sentence in Canada in the states these two would be put to death. When there is so much evidence of guilt then that should mean the death sentence in M1. CN should be locked up to , there is no way she should be out there free. She was an accessory IMO and she got a high priced lawyer to get a less charge. DM was destined to be a criminal. It is how he thinks. He is always thinking of ways he can get away with things, so it was his destiny to be a criminal and end up in prison. It is what I think of people who join gangs , it is a high risk lifestyle where you end up dead or in prison. I know people who have friends that are in prison.

I think it's a good thing we don't have CP in Canada. I like the thought of these evil monsters suffering each and every day behind bars. No freedom and only regrets. Every day they are reminded by what they are missing out on on the outside. Every day they will be haunted by what they did and how evil they truly are. Their days and nights are controlled by guards, their minds whirl with what could have been "if only." CP is the easy way out and would be too kind for sickos like these two. CN will face karma one day in some form or another. She isn't getting out of this life unscathed. MOO.

 

[drhart905]

I think it's a good thing we don't have CP in Canada. I like the thought of these evil monsters suffering each and every day behind bars. No freedom and only regrets. Every day they are reminded by what they are missing out on on the outside. Every day they will be haunted by what they did and how evil they truly are. Their days and nights are controlled by guards, their minds whirl with what could have been "if only." CP is the easy way out and would be too kind for sickos like these two. CN will face karma one day in some form or another. She isn't getting out of this life unscathed. MOO.

but what if they get out in 25 years? They are young.

 

[mskrisc]

In response to user Winter2017; Yes I was a witness. Was there testifying this morning. Also thank you everyone for your messages of encouragement. Means a lot to me.

Thanks,
David Cronin

You were amazing on the stand. Shut Dungey down !!!
You should be proud .


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[Oreck]

Only lawyers can wear the barrister's robes, black or grey "court striped" pants or skirt, a white wingtip collared shirt, waistcoat, robe and white tabs. Their robes are carried in a blue velvet bag with their initials.

Please tell me more about the attire.
Is it the same for Provincial court and Federal court?
Is it the same across Canada?
Thanks.

 

[musicaljoke]

Please tell me more about the attire.
Is it the same for Provincial court and Federal court?
Is it the same across Canada?
Thanks.

Court attire is pretty much the same across the country. Lawyers don't need to gown up for some lower courts and for some clerical matters. Most lawyers have their robes tailor made, so they can be pretty expensive.

Barrister's robes are not to be worn outside the courtroom, so if you see a lawyer fluttering in the breeze, you can wag your finger, tsk, tsk.

 

[Just4TB]

A few comments consolidated into one....
(1) David Cronin - great witness, kudos to him for standing up. DC testimony corroborates the earlier testimony of Desi on what Smich said, in the first person, not hearsay. Desi might have been a less than ideal witness, but with Cronin, a better witness, backing up the earIier testimony, Desi's testimony gains much more merit. If the David Cronin posting here is the actual witness, welcome to the forum and thank-you.

(2)There was a sidebar discussion on assets... DM assets are reported in MSM to be frozen under court order and under the care of an independent trustee. This is not surprising given the SB civil case, and the pending WM trial. MB is not in control of the remaining assets, and neither is DM. "In November 2015, a court granted Burns’ request to appoint a receiver to oversee Millard’s financial affairs and for a freeze on all proceedings related to them." http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...ler-dellen-millard-tangled-financial-web.html

(3) From the AG testimony... A parenting pattern is obvious - WM, a father who was MIA, alowing his narccissist man-child son to control him, allowing his house to be a personal party palace, as he alllowed the Pearson hanger to be a party place and *advertiser censored* set, as he allowed the new Waterloo hangar to be a chop shop. A mother rabbit willfully aiding and abetting her narc son to break the law, ferreting illegal letters from DM to CN, and from CN to DM, and from DM to SS. The trailer in the Kleinburg driveway fits, DM will do whatever the hell he wants without any repercussion. Parents were willfully controlled by him. Funny how money does that...
We are getting a clear picture of the roots of arrogance, entitlement, a spoiled kid whom even his own parents catered to every whim and fancy. For DM to not become a narcissist under that upbringing would be a surprise. RB said it best in his police statement... "a sick, twisted, prick".

(4) Although AM was in Winnipeg for part of the LB timeline, he was still connected... DM couriering drugs to him in "the Peg"... I also believe he did know LB... and DM, and the goings on at Maplegate. I recall seeing a few pics that appear to be AM, got a few new tats... a picture of what appears to be LB, burning skulls, and the words "I remember". ( tattoo pics were not MSM but I have them - unsure if allowed to post them)
I would be surprised if AM did not give police statements on record relating to LB and DM, fully expecting he will be called again as a crown witness, perhaps as early as today. He has dirt on the dirtbag without a doubt. AM is not lily white but was a key witness in the TB trial... and his testimony was credible. Hopefully, as his new tats imply, he "remembers".

My opinion only... (except asset freeze)

 

[andreww]

BBM -LB was interfering in his and CN's relationship along with how many other women he was playing at the same time. JS and LW that we know of.

Originally it was LB who was dating DM and it seems CN who was dating DG on and off again, was impressed by this "older, richer" man DM, who most likely was swooning her and won her over. DM was using only using LB and when he couldn't shake her, at the insistence of CN, he decided to get rid of her for good. IMO CN should be thanking her lucky stars she is still alive. She knew too much and IMO would have suffered the same fate as LB once DM found someone better than her. ALL MOO.

Don't really agree with that. I think if LB had walked away in to the sunset, Millard would have cared less. Problem is she didn't, and she ratted him out to CN. Just think for a moment what other secrets she knew about Millard. Would she threaten to go to cops about him? We already know she had gone to the cops about her previous boyfriend and that she wasn't exactly mentally stable. So I don't necessarily think that she was killed simply because of CN, although that was part of it.

 

[ILoveDateline]

I'm approaching this trial with an innocent til proven guilty mindset, despite knowing what we know. I try not to be biased. I tend to hold two opinions about trials, a jury one and a personal one.

Yesterday/today (since this is still day 4 thread) was the first evidence we've heard of murder. Prior to, everything has been proof LB was missing but no evidence about murder.

Opening statements are not evidence yet. I know we'll hear more about the eliminator, text messages and, hopefully, some forensics but the Crown has to prove murder and not just getting rid of LB. Friend testimony about relationship dynamics and changes in behaviour, plus what may have been said, it going to be key. I think we may hear from some of the same friends at this trial.

I'll check the tweets but I think Abro (in those two free days of access she granted) was the only one to report the "I'll hurt her, make her leave...she'll be out of our lives" text from DM to CN was in April 2012. I could be wrong.

PS. I'm available after lunch today to repost the tweets, if the day isn't finished then.

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[Granny707]

Anyone still wondering about his assets - there is a good summary of what he had & who is controlling it on CanLII website - R. v. Millard 2017 ONSC 4548 decision of 2017-07-27.

 

[andreww]

It could also go the other way though by catching CN up in lies. The jury has already heard there is evidence coming, the text DM sent to CN and I don't see how she can weasel out of that evidence other than to play dumb, which she didn't do well with during TB's trial. I have fate in the jurors they will see right through this bimbo if she is called to the stand. She told so many lies in TB's trial it would probably be hard for her to keep her stories straight and she will slip up.

IMO the evidence is what it is and not looking favourable for DM and MS already, so I see no harm in the Crown calling her as a witness...better than DM calling her as a witness (which I doubt he will, but who knows how this psycho's brain works). Could DM be very bitter at CN for encouraging him to murdering LB? We know narcissists have a very difficult time accepting blame so... would he like to bring her down along with him? :dunno:

Besides maybe she will perjure herself on the stand and LE can nab her on that, tossing her back into jail where she belongs. ALL MOO.

I believe that what the jury thinks of her would matter more than what she actually said. At the first trial it was very obvious that CN was lying. Nobody in that room believed a word she said. But what we did get out of that testimony was that what actually did happen was criminal, because if it wasn't, why lie? The Jury is well within their right to decide what is believable and what isn't.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'll check the tweets but I think Abro (in those two free days of access she granted) was the only one to report the "I'll hurt her, make her leave...she'll be out of our lives" text from DM to CN was in April 2012. I could be wrong.

Millard revealed in a text conversation with Noudga in April 2012 how he planned to alleviate his girlfriend’s concerns, court heard.

“First I am going to hurt her. Then I’ll make her leave. I will remove her from our lives,” Cameron said Millard texted Noudga.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/laura-babcock-murder-trial-to-hear-opening-arguments