Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

[Inspector_North]

There was a 21 min phone call on July 1 at 18:57 ... all others after that until July 3 were 4 mins or less, so short enough that they could have been LB leaving messages on voice mail. I don't know about others, but 4 mins is the max my voice mail will record.

didn't SL say he had the password for her voice mail, and he checked it?

 

[Inspector_North]

Yep. And she somehow managed to get herself a top Toronto lawyer to get her out of her mess even though her family is not considered wealthy. Plus we still haven't found out how those letters were being removed from the jail. CN has a LOT of incriminating info. On more than just DM IMO.

MOO

Remember Rabbit and Wonderwall? That's my bet.

 

[Inspector_North]

I have a question is someone who is convicted with obstructing justice on parole?. If you are on parole are you able to leave the country.?

Do we actually know from a reliable source that she is out of the country?

 

[deugirtni]

I believe I read in ABros tweets that she opened up, it was said in the Crown's opening statement that evidence will show LB and DM's phones were travelling together from the Kipling Subway station. So it appears that DM likely arranged to pick her up from there after she took the subway from wherever she was downtown after she left the hotel. There was no date for this occurance in the tweets.

Abro's tweets (from day 2 which were opened up to the public at one point):

From opening: Evidence will show Millard, Laura phones travelling from Kipling station to Millard Maple Gate home Oct 23, 2017

 

[deugirtni]

didn't SL say he had the password for her voice mail, and he checked it?

He would have checked her incoming voicemails, but not the ones that she may have potentially left for DM?

 

[winter2017]

This crime case reminds me of organized crime and that people would be killed by a hit man if they dared to speak out, it is very similar. DM came up with a unique way to get rid of bodies that is for sure.

 

[ILoveDateline]

I had been under the belief that during cross examination, nothing 'new' could be brought up, and that everything 'cross examined', had to have been already discussed during the 'examination in chief'... so I am left wondering if we are missing a pile of stuff from the Crown's examination, or if DM is getting away with introducing new topics through leading the witnesses? Surely the Crown, judge and other defence lawyers would object to that? Unless my understanding is all wrong and it's just a free-for-all during a cross examination?

Hmm, that doesn't sound right. You may be right that new evidence/exhibits can't be brought in during cross but to be restricted to topics already discussed, that would truly be a "defence" tactic. Surely new subjects can be discussed and new line of questioning asked.

JMO.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[Kamille]

didn't SL say he had the password for her voice mail, and he checked it?

Wouldn't he need her phone? Apparently it's in the lake.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Wouldn't he need her phone? Apparently it's in the lake.

No. I can check my messages from another phone.

 

[Just4TB]

Remember Rabbit and Wonderwall? That's my bet.

Correct. Mother "Rabbit" ferreted the letters.

Before the letters were read to the jury, Noudga was asked how she got them. She said Millard’s mother, Madeleine Burns, gave them to her when the women met. At first, Noudga read the letter and Burns kept it, but later, she would usually take the letter with her.

Source:
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...per-spy-scheme-to-save-him-from-life-sentence

 

[deugirtni]

Forgive me if I'm repeating these, but I didn't see any tweets from this person, so posting her today's tweets now; sorry but I don't have time to reverse their order, so we'll have to read from bottom up!:

Caryn Lieberman Global News
Laura Babcock Trial Tweets
Caryn Lieberman‏Verified account @caryn_lieberman
October 30, 2017

• Court is finished for today. Two witnesses are done: Karoline Shirinian and Megan Orr. Resumes 10am tomorrow. Full report on @globalnewsto
• A lot of focus on Noudga text to Babcock on her bday and then Babcock’s reply and Noudga’s response back. Orr was with Babcock at the time.
• Orr says Babcock did a lot of cocaine.
• #Millard cross complete. Smich lawyer up.
• She recalls how “happy” Babcock was when she’d come home after having sex with #Millard.
• Orr recalls the angry text message exchange was on Babcock’s bday on Feb 12.
• “She told me you guys were a thing for a while” says Orr about Babcock and #Millard having a relationship.
• Says she never made things up and never embellished. Says she was honest to her. About Babcock.
• Babcock had told Orr she threw herself down the stairs, she says.
• “She was very adamant about taking them,” says Orr about Babcock taking her medication for mental health issues.
• Orr says she knows Babcock was taking medications.
• “She was emotional. Other than that she was normal to me,” adding, “She was amazing.”
• That same day Babcock said she wanted to shop with #Millard because he “would pay” for everything.
• Orr says she recalls that #Millard and Babcock had sex in the parking lot of Sherway Gardens mall.
• Orr says Babcock was smoking marijuana and using cocaine.
• Court resumes
• Jury has left room, standby.
• He asks if Orr felt uncomfortable with “sketchy” people Babcock was introducing her to.
• #Millard again using the word “sketchy” in trial.
• “She blocked me when I pulled away from our friendship” says Orr. “I didn’t feel comfortable with situations I was placed in..”
• Babcock had blocked Orr on Facebook for a while. “She got upset.. we were best friends.. it was more me pulling away.”
• Babcock would speak positively about #Millard, says Orr.
• Orr never met #Millard in person.
• “Crude, lewd or sexual?” He asks about texts between #Millard and Babcock. Orr says yes.
• Accused killer Dellen #Millard questioning friend of woman he’s charged with murdering.
• Orr was close with Babcock for a year before she went missing in July 2012.
• #Millard asking if Orr saw the text chats between Laura and Christina with her own eyes.
• Reminder: Megan Orr was a close friend of Babcock. #Millard is asking when they became close friends.
• Apologies - I meant #Millard begins cross!
• Court is resuming. #Millard cross done. Now Smich lawyer.
• Court to resume at 2pm with #Millard cross examining Orr, friend of Laura Babcock.
• #Millard to cross examine Orr after the lunch break.
• Orr cries when asked if she ever tried to get in touch with Babcock after she went missing. “A million times” she replies.
• Last time Orr was in contact with Babcock, she had tried to get her to work with her in escort business. Orr declined.
• Caryn Lieberman‏Verified account @caryn_lieberman 3m3 minutes ago
• Small ponytail is right behind #Millard’s right ear.
• Orr was close with Babcock “she liked to share a lot with me.”
• Caryn Lieberman‏Verified account @caryn_lieberman 32s32 seconds ago
• “Did you miss your medication like you’re a crazy psycho *****..” is how Noudga texted Babcock back, reads out Orr.
• Orr recalls Noudga replied back and said “Did you miss your medication today?..”
• Orr remembers when Babcock texted Christina and Karoline to say she was having sex with #Millard (who was dating Christina.)
• Orr says Babcock talked about #Millard “all the time.”
• Megan Orr is on the stand.
• Ends his cross by revisiting that he wasn’t a good boyfriend to Christina Noudga.
• Judge instructing #Millard about rule of hearsay and of opinion.
• #Millard taking long pauses between questions.
• Pic of Millard with long blonde hair and a woman holding a black cat. Shirinian says she doesn’t recognize the woman and “it’s a black cat.”
• He’s bringing up another picture.
• “Was Laura trying to hook us up?” Asks #Millard.
• “She liked attention” she says about Babcock.
• Shirinian doesn’t know how long Babcock was working in the escort industry.
• #Millard asks Shirinian how much Babcock was making as an escort. She wanted to start her own escort business she says.
• “I wasn’t too caring to Christina was I?” “No.”
• #Millard is asking which year he didn’t show up to Christina’s bday. Shirinian says it was 2012 to her 21st bday party downtown.
• #Millard asking Shirinian about a big party he threw at airplane hangar - he shows picture of hangar.
• #Millard asks if it was common for their group to take weed, and MDMA. She agrees.
• #Millard asks Shirinian about taking MDMA. She says she took it and it makes you “happy.”
• “A weed smoking hangout” is how #Millard refers to the basement of his bungalow. “Sometimes MDMA.”
• On night of Laura’s bday “Did you see if I gave her a pill?” Shirinian replies “No” to #Millard.
• #Millard has turned back to relationship with Noudga which he says lasted 2 years. Asks Shirinian if she knows any gifts he bought her.
• Babcock and Shirinian had a falling out but then started talking again and Shirinian forgave her, knowing she’d “been struggling.”
• “Her issue is she felt better so she thought she no longer needed them” says Shirinian about Babcock taking medication for mental illness.
• #Millard asks if Shirinian thinks Babcock is evil, she says she “knew the right things to say to bother someone for sure” but wasn’t evil.
• Shirinian talks about “bickering” between Noudga and Babcock. She says #Millard didn’t seem to pay any attention to it.
• “She was a very friendly person and I can see how some men would misconstrue..” says Shirinian about Babcock.
• “Timelines are kind of important” #Millard tells witness.
• Dellen #Millard has cut his long hair slightly, has a small ponytail on his right side.
• #Millard asking Shirinian if she knew he had been sleeping with other women, that he wasn’t exclusive with Noudga.
• #Millard opened his cross with “I wasn’t much of a boyfriend was I?”
• Dellen #Millard is now cross examining Karoline Shirinian. She was a friend of both women in his life: Laura Babcock & Christina Noudga.

 

[deugirtni]

Do we actually know from a reliable source that she is out of the country?

In retrospect...... could easily have been a 'setup', to make people think that she would be out of the country at just the right time? hmm

 

[Just4TB]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Millard seems to have a tail growing out of the side of his head. Braided maybe?

:clap:That would be appropriate, considering what is usually found under a tail...

 

[deugirtni]

Hmm, that doesn't sound right. You may be right that new evidence/exhibits can't be brought in during cross but to be restricted to topics already discussed, that would truly be a "defence" tactic. Surely new subjects can be discussed and new line of questioning asked.

JMO.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

I am getting the impression that DM is asking questions of these witnesses, based on his own 'inside knowledge' from having *known* the victim personally. If we think about it in terms of.... let's just pretend that DM is an actual lawyer for a different accused.. and say that lawyer happened to *know* the victim and have inside knowledge.. would it be appropriate for that lawyer to bring into his line of questioning, things that were only known by him, which had not already been established through 'chief examination'? I'm thinking NO. Very unprofessional, to say the least? That's just what it seems like he is doing, imho, but someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Eg.: "Millard: "I understand your memory is a little fuzzy. I would suggest to you there were follow up texts." Orr can't assume that."

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Yep. And she somehow managed to get herself a top Toronto lawyer to get her out of her mess even though her family is not considered wealthy. Plus we still haven't found out how those letters were being removed from the jail. CN has a LOT of incriminating info. On more than just DM IMO.

MOO

Judge said in her case he wouldn't have convicted her so the lawyer had nothing to do with it unless he managed to keep a bunch of evidence out of court.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

DM keeps trying to get in a point about someone saying they had heard from LB after the crowns murder date. The judge keeps shutting him down based on it being heresay. Seems like it could have been a Toronto cop based on when he brings it up. Will be another piece of his defense if he can get it in.

 

[ILoveDateline]

I am getting the impression that DM is asking questions of these witnesses, based on his own 'inside knowledge' from having *known* the victim personally. If we think about it in terms of.... let's just pretend that DM is an actual lawyer for a different accused.. and say that lawyer happened to *know* the victim and have inside knowledge.. would it be appropriate for that lawyer to bring into his line of questioning, things that were only known by him, which had not already been established through 'chief examination'? I'm thinking NO. Very unprofessional, to say the least? That's just what it seems like he is doing, imho, but someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Eg.: "Millard: "I understand your memory is a little fuzzy. I would suggest to you there were follow up texts." Orr can't assume that."

That I agree with you on. It's unprofessional. I think lawyers shy away from that line of questioning because it's irrelevant.

It does imply inside knowledge but most of what I've heard is unimportant. I meant to ask about this type of questioning because it really bothered me when he was questioning her father about knowing of a rape at the sorority, if he hit her, etc. Is he allowed to ask anything regardless of its truth? Say, something absurd like, "did she ever tell you that she was abducted by aliens?" But then I realised that the eveidence is the answer and not the question. The jury knows this and hope don't get swayed by his silly questioning tactics.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[matou]

LOL @ Millard was a bad boyfriend because "he didn't buy Noudga presents."

Because trips and jewelry weren't enough. And cheating doesn't qualify. I guess the love of $$$$ was the thing amongst all of the Millard girlfriends. So telling.

 

[don_quixote]

Not gonna help him. In the end he did say he's gonna hurt her, etc. Expect more revealing communications. For example, this conversation with LB will be presented in parallel with what was going between Dm and CN. Gonna be ugly.

 

[Claroon]

didn't SL say he had the password for her voice mail, and he checked it?

Just jumping off your post....

Speaking of cash, what happened to $2000-$3000 of LB's money in her final days? :thinking:

Perhaps this from TB case: "After checking in, they went to Millard's bungalow on Maple Gate Court in Etobicoke, to pick up documents and thousands of dollars in emergency cash Millard had stashed in his safe." https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...ck-bosma-murder-trial-exposes-evil-cowardice/