Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

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inbetweendoors said:
Exactly. Why not "get rid of" all the women with whom he was unfaithful to CN - what was special about LB? Extortion sounds like a good theory to me. Not discounting the pregnancy theory either.

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Were any of the other women in CN's face though? LB was in the "inner circle" and perhaps CN couldn't deal. She seems somewhat immature. Just throwing out possible theories.
 
SnooperDuper said:
It's clear to me that KS is trying to help out DM and CN as much as she can and always has.
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Well so far she's helped establish to me that they all thought LB was a drama queen and a royal pain in the A$$ so all I'm seeing here is motive for CN to want revenge on her and DM to think it was okay to murder her. What am I missing? :waitasec:

MOO
 
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Next witness is Meghan Orr. Waiting for her arrival in court & will confirm her name once she's sworn.
 
inbetweendoors said:
Exactly. Why not "get rid of" all the women with whom he was unfaithful to CN - what was special about LB? Extortion sounds like a good theory to me. Not discounting the pregnancy theory either.

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We know that after her hotel stay had ended LB was at the end of her rope. She didn't have anywhere to go as she'd left her roommate and been kicked out of bar guy's pad. So she makes multiple calls to Millard. At this point CN already knows that DM & LB had been sleeping together, so she really didn't have any leverage there. Something was compelling enough that after 8 calls, Millard agreed to see her.
 
Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
The next witness to be called by Crown Jill Cameron is Megan Orr.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Megan Orr, is the spelling. 29 yrs. Just flew in from US, where's she's living & working in hospitality bus. Married. Grew up in Toronto.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
In 2012 she was in Bloor West village area, with her family. She did know Laura #Babcock. Met through high school friends 2011.
 
andreww said:
The crown really painted itself in to a corner with this love triangle theory. From what we have learned about LB, she was prone to extortion, and if you were going to extort DM wouldn't it be about his illegal activities and not his sex life?
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The "love triangle" tagline, IMO, was assigned by the media, not the Crown.
 
andreww said:
We know that after her hotel stay had ended LB was at the end of her rope. She didn't have anywhere to go as she'd left her roommate and been kicked out of bar guy's pad. So she makes multiple calls to Millard. At this point CN already knows that DM & LB had been sleeping together, so she really didn't have any leverage there. Something was compelling enough that after 8 calls, Millard agreed to see her.
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Well, devil's advocate, it hasn't yet been proven that he agreed to see her, unless I'm forgetting something. Did he tell SL he saw her?
Either way I agree with you that he most likely did, and most likely murdered her.

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Inspector_North said:
Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Millard, "But we don't know if the Crown will call Noudga." Justice Michael Code to move along.


So I am assuming Noudga is on the Witness list. And just like Rabbit, could be called by prosecution if need be. I don't think the defense would want her to take the stand.
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They can call her all they want but if she's conveniently out of the country, looks like she's not coming?
 
Shannon Martin
The next witness to be called by Crown Jill Cameron is Megan Orr. She is 29 and flew in from the United States to give testimony.

She grew up in Toronto.

She knew Laura Babcock through high school friends. They met in 2011.

The last time Orr had any contact with Babcock was July 2012.

Orr starts to cry, "she was an amazing girl. She had alot of emotional issues, but I understood her. She was bubbly, she was outgoing, she was amazing."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
She knows #Babcock went missing. Last time she had contact with her was July 2012. She'd known her about a year.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
She's 29 and flew in from US to give testimony. She grew up in Toronto. She knew Laura Babcock through high school friends. They met in 2011

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr hesitates when asked to describe her relationship with #Babcock. Then starts crying. "Laura was amazing," She says

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"She was bubbly, outgoing, she was amazing." They were friends, for awhile really close. They disconnected at some point for a bit.
 
Just catching up.....I hope that the Crown calls LB's MD or specialist to the stand....seems to be lots of confusion around her mental state, diagnoses and medications (prescribed and illict).

To clear up (or add more confusion?!?) a couple of things....a family MD (or even a walk in doc) would and could prescribe an anti-depressant and/or benzo (like lorazepam).....even medications classed as "anti-psychotics" are often used as an adjunct to treatment for depression or to help sleep. So there are tons of unanswered questions here.....what was she prescribed? Was she seeing a psychiatrist or "doctor shopping" because she wasn't getting the help she needed?

I do deal with psychiatric illness on a daily basis and it really does sound like LB had mental health issues that extend beyond "normal" illicit drug use. Borderline personality disorder seems to fit (although that may have been a "self-diagnosis" and LB then focused on exhibiting those symptoms). I've attached the DSM4/5 criteria....you just need to scroll down to Boderline Personality Disorder. Many mental health issues first present in early adulthood, so the fact that she started exhibiting symptoms around the time she first met DM may be a coincidence. MOO

http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/car...ica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf
 
Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Orr starts to cry, "she was an amazing girl. She had alot of emotional issues, but I understood her. She was bubbly, she was outgoing."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"I didn't agree with the lifestyle she was leading at the moment. Escorting. And the drug use," Orr says of her rift with #Babcock

Shannon Martin
They disconnected in March 2012.

Orr says she didn't agree with the path Babcock started going down: drug use and escorting.

Even though they stopped hanging out. Orr says, her voice breaking, she told Babcock she could call her at anytime, if she needed her.

Babcock continued to text and call her.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
She still had contact with #Babcock during that time. "I did tell her I would always be there, and I wanted her to contact me if she needed"
 
Have not read a single word of testimony that LB was 'prone to extortion'. Have read she was bubbly and fun but could get angry and stay angry at times.

<modsnip>
 
SnooperDuper said:
Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
The next witness to be called by Crown Jill Cameron is Megan Orr.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Megan Orr, is the spelling. 29 yrs. Just flew in from US, where's she's living & working in hospitality bus. Married.
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If a witness has to fly in, do they have to cover their own transportation and lodging or is that paid for by the Crown?
Can they refuse to come if they're out of the country?

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Woodland said:
Have not read a single word of testimony that LB was 'prone to extortion'. Have read she was bubbly and fun but could get angry and stay angry at times.

<modsnip>
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I've inferred from testimony that she could be manipulative. I don't know if I'd say full blown extortion, but if she was desperate and mentally unwell...?

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inbetweendoors said:
I've inferred from testimony that she could be manipulative. I don't know if I'd say full blown extortion, but if she was desperate and mentally unwell...?

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Extortion has not been implied.
 
Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock's calls became more rare in 2012. In July, in the early morning hours, they had a long phone convo. Crown will go back

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
They would talk daily when they were friends. "Laura was so bubbly and had a lot to say all the time. She'd call me 15, 20 times a day."

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Orr knows #Babcock's family. For awhile she went over almost weekly to hang out. Laura would complain "like anyone living w their parents"

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Laura liked to stay out. "Her parents really cared about Laura. They were only strict because they wanted the best for her." Crying again.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
"They weren't strict all the time, they cared for her," Orr is crying, wiping tears from her eyes. #Babcock

Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Orr says "anyone living at home with their parents goes through the same things. She was in her 20s and wanted to stay out late."
 
Woodland said:
Extortion has not been implied.
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Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Millard says Babcock was manipulative, would blackmail people. "She would do anything to get what she wanted."

Shirinian agrees "when she was off her meds."
 
Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Orr continues, "Her parents really cared about Laura. They were only strict because they wanted the best for her," and cries.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
#Babcock family members I can see are also wiping tears. Now onto Laura's dog, Lacy. "She loved Lacy, Lacy went everywhere with Laura."

Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Linda and Clayton Babcock, Laura's parents sitting in front row, are getting emotional as they listen to Orr. A friend passes them tissue.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Laura couldn't travel because she didn't have a passport, Orr says. Did talk about her mental health. "She was seeing a psychologist."

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Laura was "seeing a doctor for when she wanted to talk about issues," Orr clarifies. Not sure what conditions #Babcock was being treated for

Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Orr has to pause to use some tissues. She cries heavily as she talks about Babcock's Maltese dog, Lacey.
 
Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
She apologizes, says "It's just hard because Lacey was her companion." Orr repeats what we've heard before, Laura & Lacey were inseparable.

Shannon Martin&#8207; @ShannonMartinTV
Court has heard the last time Babcock was home at her parents home was June 30, 2012. She left Lacey in her kennel.

marianne boucher&#8207; @CityCourtsTO
Megan Orr is crowns next witness, very close friend of Laura Babcock. She is crying as she recalls how "amazing" Babcock was.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
"Borderline personality," Orr recalls #Babcock's apparent, medicated affliction, after reading her statement.

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock talked about suicide. Not like, planning it, Orr says. "She would get upset and say absurd things about suicide."

Lisa Hepfner&#8207; @HefCHCHNews
"But not actually mean it," Orr says with #Babcock it could have "literally been about anything."
 
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