Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

[Claroon]

Pondering the reference to cars in the hangar and recalled a reference to DM having a camero there. Then thinking of the unsolved murder of Audrey Gleave--a camero owner. Camero beside her body. Death Dec 27, 2010. Wondering if killer couldn't find key, got mad and finished her off.

Here is a quote from a news piece, "The woman says that a neighbour told her that she saw someone walking down Audrey's driveway wearing a backpack. What made it so odd is that they never get pedestrians in their area."

Sound familiar?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Here's the phone bill that matou posted long ago from a screen capture

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34025&d=1368878841

 

[Claroon]

Pondering the reference to cars in the hangar and recalled a reference to DM having a camero there. Then thinking of the unsolved murder of Audrey Gleave--a camero owner. Camero beside her body. Death Dec 27, 2010. Wondering if killer couldn't find key, got mad and finished her off.

Here is a quote from a news piece, "The woman says that a neighbour told her that she saw someone walking down Audrey's driveway wearing a backpack. What made it so odd is that they never get pedestrians in their area."

Sound familiar?

Also,"They followed-up on a Crime Stoppers tip recently, and also on an anonymous and cryptic letter mailed to a Hamilton Spectator reporter that pointed the finger at two alleged suspects. Neither tip panned out."

DM tends to write cryptically.imo

 

[james9]

It is not 24 hrs however with the $$ that she was making she could have afforded a cab..not that she had a home but I think that this needing a car theory is barking up the wrong tree. Do we know if she even had a driver's licence?

Everyone seems to be so focused on whether LB *needed* a car or not. This is somewhat irrelevant. The reason people were drawn to DM is that he had money and he made lots of promises to his friends about the life he could give them. He told Smich he would build him a rap studio to record an album, he talked about stealing a sailboat with him. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe that DM bragged to women about all his cars and how he bought a Camaro for his best buddy SS. He may very well have told women that he would buy them a car some day. Not because they need it for their escorting business, but because he's such a rich hot shot and he can do stuff like that for his friends.

 

[SnooperDuper]

He may very well have told women that he would buy them a car some day.

But ultimately there is no evidence or testimony that he told LB that. It's just a poster's theory.

 

[Ms.elle]

It's clear to me that KS is trying to help out DM and CN as much as she can and always has.

what are you basing that on? I don't see that AT ALL.

 

[gremlingrrl]

Ok, as to DM's question of whether LB mentioned a Jeep or a truck: Could this not be as simple as him querying whether Laura had been specific about which of his cars the post-shopping activities had taken place in, hoping to discredit LB's claim re the activities?

Although at this point almost anything is possible with this brilliant lawyer mastermind and upstanding citizen.

 

[Tilly23]

I'm not really sure, but it seems it is a normal thing for counsel for the defence to "suggest" various scenarios to the witnesses. The suggestions made are not evidence - unless the witness agrees to them, right?

Does anyone else find it weird to see DM "suggesting" things to the witnesses? For the jury, who know full well that DM is the accused, how can they separate what he says as counsel from what looks like it might be testimony? In particular with KS, did it feel to anyone else that DM was testifying?

MOO

 

[andreww]

I can't see a girl in the escort business wanting/needing a vehicle being interested in a truck or a jeep.

Millard brought it up for a reason.


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[james9]

But ultimately there is no evidence or testimony that he told LB that. It's just a poster's theory.

Agreed. My point was the fact that LB could take the TTC/taxis to do her escort business has nothing to do with the possibility of whether DM offered to buy her a car/truck/jeep or not. If the poster's theory is correct, and DM did offer to buy a car for LB, it probably wouldn't have anything to do with her escort business, but more to do with him manipulating people by promising to buy them things because he was so rich.

I just wasn't sure why we were debating whether LB needed a car or not for her escort business, or whether she had a driver's license or not. She can take a car that someone bought her and sell it the next day for the cash.

 

[ADAWG]

I'm not really sure, but it seems it is a normal thing for counsel for the defence to "suggest" various scenarios to the witnesses. The suggestions made are not evidence - unless the witness agrees to them, right?

Does anyone else find it weird to see DM "suggesting" things to the witnesses? For the jury, who know full well that DM is the accused, how can they separate what he says as counsel from what looks like it might be testimony? In particular with KS, did it feel to anyone else that DM was testifying?

MOO

Essentially that’s mostly what RP and NS did during the Bosma trial for him as well. You can tell he is taking advice from them for this trial


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[gremlingrrl]

I'm not really sure, but it seems it is a normal thing for counsel for the defence to "suggest" various scenarios to the witnesses. The suggestions made are not evidence - unless the witness agrees to them, right?

Does anyone else find it weird to see DM "suggesting" things to the witnesses? For the jury, who know full well that DM is the accused, how can they separate what he says as counsel from what looks like it might be testimony? In particular with KS, did it feel to anyone else that DM was testifying?

MOO

I agree... it's a very, very unusual scene, period.

I am trying to remember whether I've heard the judge remind the jury that DM's suggestive, leading questioning is neither testimony nor evidence, but it's gotten a little blurred with all of the reminders and guidance that's come from the judge in this highly unusual situation.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not really sure, but it seems it is a normal thing for counsel for the defence to "suggest" various scenarios to the witnesses. The suggestions made are not evidence - unless the witness agrees to them, right?

Does anyone else find it weird to see DM "suggesting" things to the witnesses? For the jury, who know full well that DM is the accused, how can they separate what he says as counsel from what looks like it might be testimony? In particular with KS, did it feel to anyone else that DM was testifying?

MOO

I had been under the belief that during cross examination, nothing 'new' could be brought up, and that everything 'cross examined', had to have been already discussed during the 'examination in chief'... so I am left wondering if we are missing a pile of stuff from the Crown's examination, or if DM is getting away with introducing new topics through leading the witnesses? Surely the Crown, judge and other defence lawyers would object to that? Unless my understanding is all wrong and it's just a free-for-all during a cross examination?

 

[winter2017]

Rabbit could have paid for the high priced lawyer. DM mother.

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe, but he was in jail and if she'd followed the news, which she likely had, she'd know he wasn't getting out anytime soon. I think a bigger possibility is that CN was aware of TBs murder before it happened, and in case Millard tried to drag her in to it, she had the letters. To me it explains why she NEVER turned on Millard. If she wasn't loyal, she'd be implicated.

She was no more implicated by *not* coming forward, than she would have been if she'd done the right thing in the first place - except she would have at least *looked* more innocent. She had evidence in her possession, and via her testimony, and if she had agreed to be the Crown's star witness, she likely wouldn't have even had any charges laid against her. The longer she left it, the more letters she got, which gave her more and more incriminating info against him, which.. didn't she even make note on those sheets, saying that blackmailing future boyfriends was exactly what she had in mind - and then when questioned on it, she laughed it off as a joke?

 

[winter2017]

I have a question is someone who is convicted with obstructing justice on parole?. If you are on parole are you able to leave the country.?

 

[Kamille]

I'm not really sure, but it seems it is a normal thing for counsel for the defence to "suggest" various scenarios to the witnesses. The suggestions made are not evidence - unless the witness agrees to them, right?

Does anyone else find it weird to see DM "suggesting" things to the witnesses? For the jury, who know full well that DM is the accused, how can they separate what he says as counsel from what looks like it might be testimony? In particular with KS, did it feel to anyone else that DM was testifying?

MOO

Yes. And not just for himself but for CN as well. Not sure how this is being allowed but the Crown did seem to object to it more than once.

MOO

 

[Melzack]

Do you think that they may have video footage of the incinerator being used at the Hangar? The crown must have a solid case to prove what these two killers are guilty once again of murder 1.

 

[Kamille]

Millard brought it up for a reason.


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He learned that from NS. Remember the constant reference to MS and a backpack in the TB trial? Turned out to be nothing.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Agreed. My point was the fact that LB could take the TTC/taxis to do her escort business has nothing to do with the possibility of whether DM offered to buy her a car/truck/jeep or not. If the poster's theory is correct, and DM did offer to buy a car for LB, it probably wouldn't have anything to do with her escort business, but more to do with him manipulating people by promising to buy them things because he was so rich.

I just wasn't sure why we were debating whether LB needed a car or not for her escort business, or whether she had a driver's license or not. She can take a car that someone bought her and sell it the next day for the cash.

Just jumping off your post....

Speaking of cash, what happened to $2000-$3000 of LB's money in her final days? :thinking: