Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[winter2017]

junebug67, One thing that puzzled me why DM a grown adult would be living at the house of his father. He not only lived there but took it over. He had other properties he owned, yet he lived there and completely took it over. That is a sign that something was not right.
How did he think it was alright to take over the house and have a lot of parties and do what he wanted. The father must not have been able to stand up to him.
Then the father makes sure DM is provided for.
Maybe the father wanted to disinherit DM and that is why DM may have killed him.

 

[JuneBug67]

Sorry, but I can't agree. Put yourself in the position of the jury. Most of the evidence is circumstantial and NO BODY. Too many good lookin hookers get kidnaped. Suddenly no phone, no credit cards, no nothing. Coaxed onto a boat in the Toronto harbour and Just Gone.

I still think Crown will drop the blockbuster. I can't see them skipping prelim on what they have shown the jury so far.
Just my feeling.

Skipping the prelim is not about the strength of a case though. They only have to show a reasonable chance of conviction, which is not a very high legal standard. Skipping the prelim has to be about protecting the course of justice and demonstrating how it might be harmed by exposing the case or witnesses of the Crown. I suspect these cases were justified because of their inter-relatedness and the high profile nature. Both of those features increase the risk of pub banned information leaking out and compromising jury pools and tainting witnesses etc.

 

[bakingirl]

After seeing the tweets this week from SS's testimony, I think maybe SS didn't know much after LB. He might have wondered about her disappearance, but couldn't/wouldn't believe that his boss was involved.

I feel differently about him and the others after TB went missing. By that time, they couldn't keep denying their spidey-senses about DM. All MOO

 

[Ms.elle]

I hope so too! M1 conviction without a body or a confession will be difficult, IMO.

Its plausible that they are keeping several witnesses banked to call as rebuttal witnesses after DM is given room to present his "case"

 

[mojatato]

Sorry, but I can't agree. Put yourself in the position of the jury. Most of the evidence is circumstantial and NO BODY. Too many good lookin hookers get kidnaped. Suddenly no phone, no credit cards, no nothing. Coaxed onto a boat in the Toronto harbour and Just Gone.

I still think Crown will drop the blockbuster. I can't see them skipping prelim on what they have shown the jury so far.
Just my feeling.

Don't forget the red Roots bag!! with LB name tag!

 

[mimimic]

This video at the end, July 3 at 6:19pm DM is finishing deal with isho! Does he live near to where LB was picked up?

That was NOT the exchange that she'd gotten reversed... ^^THIS version is reversed!

The reversal happened with regard to the DM/Isho texts on July 1/2, as seen on the extraction report re DM's phone. Exhibit 1001. You can see the actual report at :40 of this video: [video=youtube;s6UnVuVPMZQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6UnVuVPMZQ[/video]

 

[Ashley96]

Sorry, but I can't agree. Put yourself in the position of the jury. Most of the evidence is circumstantial and NO BODY. Too many good lookin hookers get kidnaped. Suddenly no phone, no credit cards, no nothing. Coaxed onto a boat in the Toronto harbour and Just Gone.

I still think Crown will drop the blockbuster. I can't see them skipping prelim on what they have shown the jury so far.
Just my feeling.

I believe we went through these same arguments with the TB trial. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence...and if there's enough of it along with other evidence, (like there seems to be here with the texts, phone pings, pictures, bones analysis, Laura's personal items in their possession etc)...well the totality of evidence is what the jury must weigh.

If I were a jurist I'd say there's enough right now to feel quite confident of M1 for DM.
I'd have to wait to hear the rest of the evidence and instructions from the judge for MS conviction (ie if participating in planning means M1?) MOO

 

[Oreck]

Transfer could have taken place inside the hanger, but risks SS seeing. Or maybe that wasn’t a big risk — said with tongue in cheek

Was this the same day as the pic of him on the bucket? ..Who took the pic?

 

[LibTech]

Skipping the prelim is not about the strength of a case though. They only have to show a reasonable chance of conviction, which is not a very high legal standard. Skipping the prelim has to be about protecting the course of justice and demonstrating how it might be harmed by exposing the case or witnesses of the Crown. I suspect these cases were justified because of their inter-relatedness and the high profile nature. Both of those features increase the risk of pub banned information leaking out and compromising jury pools and tainting witnesses etc.

It's my understanding that it is rare for cases to go directly to trial, in other words, a direct indictment.

An application generally indicates the Crown believes it has a strong likelihood of conviction.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/5839030-babcock-murder-case-going-straight-to-trial/

 

[inbetweendoors]

Was this the same day as the pic of him on the bucket? ..Who took the pic?

It's still unclear who took the pic. SS testified that he wasn't sure/couldn't remember if it was him.

Who else would have been there at that time? It was a Wednesday at ~130pm.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[JuneBug67]

It's my understanding that it is rare for cases to go directly to trial, in other words, a direct indictment.



https://www.thespec.com/news-story/5839030-babcock-murder-case-going-straight-to-trial/

They’re not particularly rare in high profile cases, which is an ongoing concern of defence attorneys.

Again, they’re not about the strength of a case beyond having to demonstrate the aforementioned reasonable prospect of conviction, only a moderate standard. Reasons that they may be granted are outlined here:

http://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/pub/fpsd-sfpg/fps-sfp/tpd/p3/ch06.html

Further documentation showing “a reasonable prospect of conviction” is the same standard any prosecution must meet and that it doesn’t rise to a probability of conviction.

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/crim/cpm/2005/ChargeScreening.pdf

 

[dar107]

MM testimony being saved until close to closing of the crowns case makes me think she will have useful information to help convict them both. I hope she has grown in a good way is stronger and life has improved for her. Shes going to need it to face DM crossing her. I do feel she was genuinely remorseful for everything. I wonder how well she would of known either CN or Laura. I feel like would not of associated with them like MS didnt really with the rest of DM friends.

AM I don't know what to expect. Didnt DM say AM would be testifying Or was he talking about SS?

 

[don_quixote]

"Dr. Burns" would actually be quite fitting for pet cremation, wouldn't it?

But seriously, despite his heated temperament (no pun intended) on the stand today, the message he delivered is that he believes his nephew is capable of committing the acts he's accused of. It's a very strong message to the jury, IMO.

It would be appropriate. I was laughing whole day today after reading this.

I think the Alabama theories may be a bit too far fetched. Otherwise, he wouldn't go and visit DM in 2012. Also, he could prevent DM from joining his children on the trip. Likely, he had prior reservations about DM's lifestyle. May be suspected theft and such. And then he connected the dots quickly and had a pretty good idea what happened. Observe how he evaluates DM's questions. Appears to be an intelligent person. Embarrassing for him, especially because he was basically DM's caregiver at the crucial 15 yo age.

Perhaps, he doesn't feel that he needs to hold back the anger.

 

[Tilly23]

UBM - seems to me SS should have smelled something bad on 23 July at the farm. That's about 20 days of decomposition.

Woodland, they did say it happened at the farm in the CBC article, but from the tweets on that day, I think it happened at the hangar. As always, it's hard to know what we are missing when following the tweets, but here are some from Lisa Hepfner while SS was on the stand discussing this:
[video=twitter;930890477729189890]https://twitter.com/HefCHCHNews/status/930890477729189890[/video]
[video=twitter;930891219902828545]https://twitter.com/HefCHCHNews/status/930891219902828545[/video]
[video=twitter;930894104824750080]https://twitter.com/HefCHCHNews/status/930894104824750080[/video]

MOO

 

[Oreck]

In my opinion, to her knowledge, they were potentially stealing a car. She didn’t want him to go because she thought it was too risky. That’s a long way from knowing about a murder.

I feel like you are sickened by the fact that she wanted to marry MS. Keep in mind that she knew some of what he was up to, but certainly not everything. She was brainwashed, manipulated and completely in love with a very bad guy... Finding out the truth about him was probably horrifying.

I’ve been in her shoes so maybe that’s why I sympathize. She didn’t keep good company or make great choices, but she was vulnerable and young and malleable. Judge her for those things if you must, but she is not complicit in any of these murders.

And we’ll have to agree to disagree about her testimony also. I thought it was strong and valuable and truthful. She did way better than any of the other minions and she’s only grown since then.

She is street smart and she knows a lot more than she ever said in court.
She knew what was going on.

MS: "Don't tell them anything don't tell them anything."

 

[don_quixote]

LOL. I had that thought too. But the whole inside is constructed to retain heat in the walls and grate etc. That wouldn't cool THAT much I wouldn't think, even though some heat through the air would be lost. I just find it a mystery that creates less certainty than I already had for why he really bought the machine, which wasn't much certainty to begin with.

And as Inspector (I think) noticed, embers shouldn't be flying around, unless the lid is open. I don't think flesh (animal or human) would give such embers. Tarp or clothing - yes.

 

[Oreck]

***from here

???? Please.

 

[inbetweendoors]

???? Please.

He was editing a post he made where he mistyped a word.

(If that's what you were confused about?)

 

[mimimic]

Same day.

Was this the same day as the pic of him on the bucket? ..Who took the pic?

 

[Nakasaka]

If RB distanced himself and his family from DM back in 2002, why would he allow his kids to go on an oversee trip alone with DM? Just does not make sense....