Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.05.17 - Closing Arguments - Day 1

[MrsThreadgoode]

Dell did a nice thing. He spared MS. He could have easily put it on him. I guess he learned from the TB trial that that approach doesn't work. I wonder if Dungey was expecting that defense. I also wonder if Dungey will go with the flow of LB is still missing or if he will throw poor Dell under the bus.

I don’t think he is finished yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Night_is_Mine]

Dell did kill for love. His love was money and power.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

No that's as a different story. That case had a ton of real evidence. As long as the jury legitimately isn't aware of the TB case I think they aquit Dell.

It's unrealistic to assume that the jury does not know about DM and MS's prior convictions. The case was just too public.

An accused is entitled to be tried by a jury of his peers. If 99% of his peers know that he committed a previous crime and you attempt to load up the jury box with a bunch of people who have been hiding under rocks for the past couple of years then you are tainting the jury pool and the accused is not in fact being tried by a jury of his peers.

They know, but the question is can they put that knowledge aside and decide this case on its merits alone. I suspect that those are the questions that the jurors would have faced during the jury selection process.

 

[don_quixote]

Dell did kill for love. His love was money and power.

Oh, then it's alright.

 

[JPC]

DM keeps making reference to lack of context around texts etc but I have to wonder what stopped him from providing the other texts that would provide context when he had the chance. As he has said himself, this trial is not something to be taken lightly. As a juror I would wonder why he didn’t provide context and would be suspicious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JuneBug67]

RSBM

He is wholly responsible for being in this grave, life-altering situation by all of the dumb and selfish decisions he has made, not just with respect to this trial, but his entire life. He had every opportunity to become a success in life and decided to throw it all away.

I feel pity for Laura’s family who have to sit in a courtroom seeing images of their daughter incinerated and for a little girl in Anacaster growing up without a father because some silver spoon fed loser wanted to play the role of crime kingpin. All MOO

I've got lots of room for pity all around. My profound sadness for Laura and for her family is not lessened in any way because I choose to look at all things from all sides. I think we give both ourselves and others too much credit for a lot of the perceived agency in our lives, which a lot of researchers are increasing considering an illusion. There is a short but interesting book called "Free Will" by Sam Harris that explores a lot of these ideas and how they might some day impact how we think about criminal justice. In short, I'm as grateful that I didn't suffer the fate of Dellen Millard as I am that I didn't suffer the fate of Laura Babcock.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

DM keeps making reference to lack of context around texts etc but I have to wonder what stopped him from providing the other texts that would provide context when he had the chance. As he has said himself, this trial is not something to be taken lightly. As a juror I would wonder why he didn’t provide context and would be suspicious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, particularly since he called some evidence. If he had called no evidence his argument would be stronger. He could say the Crown has the burden of proof and they have not met it so I called no evidence and then proceed to dissect the Crown's case.

Since he called evidence though, it really opens up the jury to question "If you could, why didn't you clear that up for us when you were calling evidence?"

Silence is golden.....

 

[don_quixote]

I've got lots of room for pity all around. My profound sadness for Laura and for her family is not lessened in any way because I choose to look at all things from all sides. I think we give both ourselves and others too much credit for a lot of the perceived agency in our lives, which a lot of researchers are increasing considering an illusion. There is a short but interesting book called "Free Will" by Sam Harris that explores a lot of these ideas and how they might some day impact how we think about criminal justice. In short, I'm as grateful that I didn't suffer the fate of Dellen Millard as I am that I didn't suffer the fate of Laura Babcock.

But let's not confuse credit for success with going out of your way to kill and incinerate someone. Success requires a fair amount of luck. Failure is often a deliberate act.

 

[JPC]

It has come up before and it was during MWJ testimony. At first I took it as meaning it can from MWJ to Millard and i thought whoa, scary guy telling DM to slow down and back off a bit.

Sorry I was being facetious about his five fingers and five toes comment to LB. most people have 10 of each.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[inbetweendoors]

Jury is back.

 

[lclabtech]

In short, I'm as grateful that I didn't suffer the fate of Dellen Millard as I am that I didn't suffer the fate of Laura Babcock.

I just can’t get behind this perspective. Seems like an odd thing to say.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Jury is coming back at #LauraBabcock murder trial. Dellen #Millard is standing, ready to finish his closing submissions.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

But let's not confuse credit for success with going out of the line to kill and incinerate someone. Success requires a fair amount of luck. Failure is often a deliberate act.

I don't want to put words into JuneBug's mouth but what I think she's saying is that the more we learn about people's brains, the more we learn that at least some of us (if not all of us to varying extents) may not quite have as much free will as we believe, and this could one day have a drastic impact on our criminal justice system which really is based on the concept of free will.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
32s33 seconds ago
I talked quite a bit about text messages without context, #Millard tells jury another one of those examples occurred to him over the lunch break. July 3 text message. "I'll see you Friday, have fun doing big things," Noudga wrote to Millard then. #LauraBabcock

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
22s22 seconds ago
Millard sees now that the jury could draw inferences about what Noudga meant by "big things." I don't know if the crown is trying to infer that Christina is in on some plan to make Laura disappear," #Millard says there is context to disprove that inference.

 

[Kamille]

The jury is back in the courtroom and Millard continues his closing address.

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've spent a great deal of time talking about text messages and the dangers of reading just one message and taking the meaning out of context."

He pulls up text messages in August 2012, between him and Noudga. Noudga asks about when Millard slept with Babcock, and he tells her he hadn't since he got together with Noudga.
by Shannon Martin 2:37 PM

 

[JuneBug67]

But let's not confuse credit for success with going out of the line to kill and incinerate someone. Success requires a fair amount of luck. Failure is often a deliberate act.

It's not about success or failure, it's about whether any of our actions are truly chosen in the way we think they are. If every single decision is a result of our current state of being in that moment, and if our state of being in that moment is itself driven every single thing that came before it both in and out of our perceived control, then how much choice is really involved in anything? If somebody like DM is given a gene load and experience set that dampens and dulls his senses of fear and guilt in a way that is completely out of his control, then he would not even experience the things that prevent the vast majority of us from acting as he did.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Millard says Noudga wouldn't have asked him other things about his relationships at the end of August. "Christina is well aware" that he has relationships with other women, #Millard says.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
July 4. Important date, #Millard says. "We have evidence, thanks to the crown, text messages between myself and Shane Schlatman." Text is about auto parts at an engine shop in Mississauga.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
48s48 seconds ago
Millard is showing the cell phone tower map from July 4th. Suggests the map shows him going to the auto shop that day. #LauraBabcock

 

[lclabtech]

It's not about success or failure, it's about whether any of our actions are truly chosen in the way we think they are. If every single decision is a result of our current state of being in that moment, and if our state of being in that moment is itself driven every single thing that came before it both in and out of our perceived control, then how much choice is really involved in anything? If somebody like DM is given a gene load and experience set that dampens and dulls his senses of fear and guilt in a way that is completely out of his control, then he would not even experience the things that prevent the vast majority of us from acting as he did.

Are you really presenting an argument here that DM didn’t have any control over being a serial killer?... Good god.