Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.06.17 - Closing Arguments - Day 2

[CJPRINCESS]

Of opinion? I said IT'S POSSIBLE. Why do I think it's possible? Because there is no evidence of her passing. Is it likely she has passed? Absolutely. Is it definite? Absolutely not. Is it surely at the hands of Dell and Smich? Nope.Why hasn't she reappeared? People who want to vanish stay vanished..

Thank you for this post. This is constructive conversation.

Yes, people do vanish and stay vanished if that’s what they want. I just have a hard time believing that is the case with LB. in all do respect, I’d love to see her show up in the court and say “hey, I’m here, alive and well” but that’s not going to happen.

She was In love with DM and reached out to him on numerous occasions. DM was one she turned to for help and advise (as well as drugs) None of her texts indicate that she hated him. So just those reasons alone, I don’t think she’d let DM go down for her murder if she was still alive. This case has been in the media for many years, I’m pretty sure it would be known to her by now, if she were still alive. It’s been said that LB loves people, is caring and loving. I honestly believe that she couldn’t let the people that love her think she’s dead.

BTW, anything is possible but I’m just not seeing any possibility of LB still alive.

JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

I truly believe that convicted murderers should lose the rights and privileges given to law-abiding citizens. DM and MS's criminal records should have been able to be mentioned IMO, but the law goes overboard IMO to protect the rights of the accused at the expense of the rights of the victim(s).

All MOO

rsbm

I wouldn't want anyone to be wrongfully convicted of a crime that they didn't commit because their prior convictions lead the jury to believe that they were guilty. Frustrating as it is, I agree that each case needs to be judged on the evidence pertaining to the case. I want MS to be found guilty, but I also want justice and fairness within our legal system.

 

[Shaz14]

Yup it sounds to me like MS was gonna wait in wings to jump poor LB.

This did cross my mind as well. The problem is there is no other evidence to indicate that he actually did anything or was with DM at any point that night.

 

[brightii]

rsbm

I wouldn't want anyone to be wrongfully convicted of a crime that they didn't commit because their prior convictions lead the jury to believe that they were guilty. Frustrating as it is, I agree that each case needs to be judged on the evidence pertaining to the case. I want MS to be found guilty, but I also want justice and fairness within our legal system.

I understand that concept, but frankly, if you've been convicted of murder there should be serious consequences, and among them IMO should be that you won't be protected by the law in future court cases. Protecting the rights of the accused over the rights of the victim just does not feel fair at all to me. I am more concerned with victims being able to trust the system to protect their rights more than the rights of a convicted murderer.

Few seem to have a problem with LB's past and reputation being used against her in this trial and that says to me that as a society when it comes to the law we have it all wrong!

All MOO

 

[Shaz14]

It's rather rich of TD to try and discredit the witness testimony of the two young friends of MS and characterize them as unreliable drug users, when it is his own client who is a convicted murderer.

All MOO

And drug addict...

 

[musicaljoke]

Yes, people do vanish and stay vanished if that’s what they want. I just have a hard time believing that is the case with LB. in all do respect, I’d love to see her show up in the court and say “hey, I’m here, alive and well” but that’s not going to happen.


JMO

I agree. Voluntarily staying vanished requires determination, personal strength and inner fortitude. It's a goal that requires extensive and careful planning. LB just didn't have the capacity to do this at the time of her disappearance.
http://www.skilledsurvival.com/how-to-disappear-completely/

 

[Shaz14]

I still don’t understand why both DM and MS’s past convictions can’t be mentioned here. They were tried and convicted and it’s now of public record.

The once case I was involved in against a woman beater, drug trafficker and had a conviction of assault causing bodily harm (he put guy in intensive care almost dead) the crowns opening stated all his past convictions.

I know MJW wasn’t on trial here but his convictions were stated at his introduction.

Or is this only based on case by case type thing?

My understanding, and I'm not a lawyer, is that it only pertains to people who testify. If either DM or MS took the stand, their prior convictions would have been brought up. It I'm not sure why in the case that you were involved in the crown was allowed to state past convictions in the opening.

 

[andreww]

I'm surprised he didn't address the rap video, only the witnesses. Best leave sleeping dogs lie?

The jury will likely hear that song several times in the crowns closing. But really, even if you take it as fact, it never says that he killed her. It was the garage confession that is more damning to MS so Dungey went after the credibility of the two boys that testified. And I wonder why the third witness wasn't called? Was his story vastly different?

 

[meterclicks]

Court is now back underway, we're just waiting on the jury. Crown Jill Cameron is about to start her closing remarks.
by Adam Carter 1:51 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Justice Code starts by giving two instructions to the jury, arising out of the closes they've heard so far. The first is from Dungey's close, where he said that Smich had no knowledge of what happened to Babcock -- Code says there's no evidence to support that. He misspoke.
by Adam Carter 1:53 PM

 

[musicaljoke]

I understand that concept, but frankly, if you've been convicted of murder there should be serious consequences, and among them IMO should be that you won't be protected by the law in future court cases. Protecting the rights of the accused over the rights of the victim just does not feel fair at all to me. I am more concerned with victims being able to trust the system to protect their rights more than the rights of a convicted murderer.

Few seem to have a problem with LB's past and reputation being used against her in this trial and that says to me that as a society when it comes to the law we have it all wrong!

All MOO

I don;'t see it as protecting the rights of the accused over the rights of the victim, but rather that we need to maintain the integrity of the justice system. If someone is found guilty of murder, based on a previous conviction, then the real murderer is still out in the public.

MS' and DM's murder convictions will come into play at the sentencing stage, so they are not entirely brushed away.

 

[andreww]

My understanding, and I'm not a lawyer, is that it only pertains to people who testify. If either DM or MS took the stand, their prior convictions would have been brought up. It I'm not sure why in the case that you were involved in the crown was allowed to state past convictions in the opening.

To begin with, their M1 convictions pertained to a murder that took place after this one is alleged to have taken place. It would not be fair to use that info to judge these men for this crime when the TB murder hadn't even happened yet.

 

[meterclicks]

The second point is about what inferences should be drawn from the Crown's decision not to call certain witnesses, like Christina Noudga. Code says it's very dangerous and rarely, if ever, proper to draw inferences from the fact that the Crown called or not called any witness. "There may be very good reasons for not calling particular witnesses," Code says.
by Adam Carter 1:55 PM

 

[ab-initio]

Dungey now moving on to Babcock's "lifestyle."
by Adam Carter 10:53 AM

"Laura Babcock was a very intelligent woman. She was bubbly. She liked people. As her father stated, when she came into a room, she just took over ... she was a lovely young woman, or is a lovely young woman, she's missing. We don't know where she is," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 10:54 AM

I wonder if DM has the capacity to feel envy ... because if I were him, considering the RedBagWithHerWhenSheDied incident of yesterday, I'd be pretty envious of this closing right about now.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

I understand that concept, but frankly, if you've been convicted of murder there should be serious consequences, and among them IMO should be that you won't be protected by the law in future court cases. Protecting the rights of the accused over the rights of the victim just does not feel fair at all to me. I am more concerned with victims being able to trust the system to protect their rights more than the rights of a convicted murderer.

Few seem to have a problem with LB's past and reputation being used against her in this trial and that says to me that as a society when it comes to the law we have it all wrong!

All MOO

I guess the question that you have to ask yourself is for what purpose do you want the jury to know that they have murder convictions?

How does that information assist the jury in deciding this case?

 

[meterclicks]

"Do not waste your time speculating on why a particular witness was not called," Code says.
by Adam Carter 1:56 PM

Cameron is now starting her closing address.
by Adam Carter 1:56 PM

 

[meterclicks]

We're starting by seeing the rap video of Smich:

The b**** started off all skin and bone

now the b**** lay on ashy stone

last time I saw her's outside the home

and if you go swimming you can find her phone.
by Adam Carter 1:57 PM

"Laura Babcock started off all skin and bone," Cameron says.
by Adam Carter 1:57 PM

 

[Shaz14]

I understand that concept, but frankly, if you've been convicted of murder there should be serious consequences, and among them IMO should be that you won't be protected by the law in future court cases. Protecting the rights of the accused over the rights of the victim just does not feel fair at all to me. I am more concerned with victims being able to trust the system to protect their rights more than the rights of a convicted murderer.

Few seem to have a problem with LB's past and reputation being used against her in this trial and that says to me that as a society when it comes to the law we have it all wrong!

All MOO

Just because they have prior convictions doesn't mean that they did this particular act. One important fact that people forget, including myself, is that a trial is not about the victim. It isn't about the victim's family either. It is the Crown, which represents the people of Canada, vs the defendants. There is stuff that can be brought up about the victim that can't be brought up about the defendants because the victim is not the accused. We all say we want justice for Laura, but that isn't what this is about, it is about Justice for our country.

Edit: I removed a sentence because I had a confusing train of thought when I started typing

 

[dar107]

Here we go, sending the most positive vibes possible to the Crown, and Laura's loved ones! Do her justice Jill!

 

[meterclicks]

"That is not a made up story, That 34 word rap tells the story of what happened to Laura Babcock," Cameron says. She says Dungey didn't focus on that in his close, because he can't, because it tells the truth. Cameron also says she's not going to "yell" at the jury, or try to make them fearful of their responsibilities.
by Adam Carter 1:58 PM

Cameron says that Babcock left footprints everywhere -- not just her phone, but also banking info, Visa, etc. "It's been five and a half years. I ask you to remember that when you assess the strong bodies of evidence," Cameron says.
by Adam Carter 1:59 PM