Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[Jasper52]

It's easy to denounce our justice system and it certainly isn't without flaws, but I defy you to point to one in existence which is flawless.

The wealthy have always enjoyed the benefits of their justice systems and guess what, they always will. At least our does occasionally convict the wealthy, most do not.

What you really have to ask is what is the purpose of a justice system? If you believe that it actually has anything to do with justice then you will no doubt be sorely disappointed.

RBBM

Although not a Canadian case, this I believe to be true in the Casey Anthony case. JMO

 

[bakingirl]

One more post: I also find it disturbing that DM was permitted media interviews.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am going to predict M1 for both DM and MS with the verdicts coming Friday Dec 15th by early afternoon.

I'm with you.

I think the jury may have a couple of questions prior to the verdict- my guess is clarification on the testimony of the two young men in the garage when MS explained the story behind his rap.

 

[mimimic]

From what I read it was DM's response to his cousins text
Also redacted was a text Millard sent Jan. 18, 2013 to a cousin inquiring about what he’d been up to. “Smuggling drugs killing hookers,” was his reply. Babcock had been working as an escort before she went missing
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel

Not that I care to be right - i could very well be wrong: either way they are both likely to say the same thing,by the looks of it...but I do think it is the other way around.

 

[matou]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
24m24 minutes ago

Jury is finished deliberations for the night. Back at 10am tomorrow. #LauraBabcock @CHCHNews

 

[mimimic]

It's an interesting question. Obviously a gun recovered along with a suicide victim is expected, and maybe the fact that DM purchased it will not be a significant element of the Crown's argument in that case? Since they lived in the same house I suppose it would be easy to argue that his dad simply used a gun he had access to from his son's collection. So maybe in that sense it isn't sufficiently prejudicial.

I wonder if he had his PJ's on!

 

[UtopiaBurrito]

To me, he exhibits all the signs of antisocial personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder. Real full of himself, and lots of superficial charm. Thought he was so high above others that he could murder, and thought he was smart enough to get away with it.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

IMO it's discouraging to see key evidence excluded from the trial. I realize that the judge was likely trying to prevent grounds for appeal, but still, just very discouraging.

I'm kind of sickened by some of this, especially since it could affect the outcome.

There wouldn't be much point in excluding evidence that would not affect the outcome.

It may make you feel a little less sick to realize that if Crown evidence is excluded and it affects the outcome the Crown can always appeal the verdict if they feel that the evidence should have been admitted.

 

[JPC]

To me, he exhibits all the signs of antisocial personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder. Real full of himself, and lots of superficial charm. Thought he was so high above others that he could murder, and thought he was smart enough to get away with it.

BINGO!

My thoughts exactly


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[UtopiaBurrito]

I agree. He doesn't deserve to have his narcissism fed like that. The fact that he tries to portray himself as some hard done by victim of the justice system and the media is just sickening. He murdered multiple people, but he tries to make himself out to be the victim. What a piece of work.

 

[redheart]

I think that he killed because of how it made him feel. The money was just an added bonus. He didn't have to kill Laura or Tim to rob them and it seems as though his father gave him everything he wanted. He may have tried to sound like he had street cred using terms like merk. He didn't need to put money out for an incinerator to just rob people. He wanted to kill and to hide the evidence. MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is spot on, IMO. I don't know why people try to tie DM and MS to one particular motive, and either argue against it or for it. They both had different motives, and those motives could easily change/evolve with their needs, moods, whims. Motive is very hard to pin down because humans are complex. What motivates us isn't usually one singular thing. MOO

 

[Just4TB]

It's easy to denounce our justice system and it certainly isn't without flaws, but I defy you to point to one in existence which is flawless.

The wealthy have always enjoyed the benefits of their justice systems and guess what, they always will. At least our does occasionally convict the wealthy, most do not.

What you really have to ask is what is the purpose of a justice system? If you believe that it actually has anything to do with justice then you will no doubt be sorely disappointed.

I do not disagree that compared to many other systems, we in Canada have a decent system.
However, irrespective of the flaws in other justice systems, we can, and ought, to look for ways in which our own can be improved. I personally do not believe in playing to the lowest common denominator.

We ought to start with returning our justice system to... a justice system. It is a shame if our system truly "has nothing to do with justice". I personally believe that there is still justice in our system, but where our system is erroneously tilted, the rights of the accused are primary to the rights of the victim. If for example, the accused has a past history of violence, that ought be a consideration during the finding of guilt.If for example, the accused is already a convicted murderer, he ought not have the right to cross-examine the victim or the father of the victim. If for example, there exists evidence against the accused that shows a pattern of amoral behaviour, that ought not be kept from the jurors.

What is the purpose of a justice system? Firstly, to ensure the rule of law and order prevails in our society. Secondly, protecting society from those who would do us harm. Thirdly, society speaking on behalf of victims of crime, who in many cases, no longer have the ability to have their voice heard. Sentences ought be not solely focused on "punishment", but rather, primarily focused on preventing those so inclined to do harm, from doing so. Punitive portion of sentencing ought purely be for deterrence.

The presumption of innocence, or the presumption that a person will no do society harm, ought be removed once the harm has been done and the person who did the harm has been convicted. After that, the presumption of harm from that person ought to be assumed, and only once proven to no longer be a threat to society, should they be totally free. Until that time, society ought be protected from that person. There have been multiple cases where an innocent child is preyed upon by a repeat offender pedophile who was released, with the assumption that they would not re-offend. In those cases, our system failed to protect the innocent, and that is a shame.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I think that he killed because of how it made him feel. The money was just an added bonus. He didn't have to kill Laura or Tim to rob them and it seems as though his father gave him everything he wanted. He may have tried to sound like he had street cred using terms like merk. He didn't need to put money out for an incinerator to just rob people. He wanted to kill and to hide the evidence. MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If he doesn't buy the eliminator, the steel, propane and everything else related to the Eliminator he could have practically bought Bosma's truck in cash - if that was financial motivated he needs a new accountant. MAYBE his dad was financial, the other two were clearly for the thrill of it.

 

[Sphinx]

He told her: You are harmful to me. He had AM keep tabs on her whereabouts. Maybe she was gonna spill that he wanted to be a pimp to Christina or anyone?

And maybe he did not like the idea of her competing with him. She was a smart girl in many ways. IMO

 

[don_quixote]

I do not disagree that compared to many other systems, we in Canada have a decent system.
However, irrespective of the flaws in other justice systems, we can, and ought, to look for ways in which our own can be improved. I personally do not believe in playing to the lowest common denominator.

We ought to start with returning our justice system to... a justice system. It is a shame if our system truly "has nothing to do with justice". I personally believe that there is still justice in our system, but where our system is erroneously tilted, the rights of the accused are primary to the rights of the victim. If for example, the accused has a past history of violence, that ought be a consideration during the finding of guilt.If for example, the accused is already a convicted murderer, he ought not have the right to cross-examine the victim or the father of the victim. If for example, there exists evidence against the accused that shows a pattern of amoral behaviour, that ought not be kept from the jurors.

What is the purpose of a justice system? Firstly, to ensure the rule of law and order prevails in our society. Secondly, protecting society from those who would do us harm. Thirdly, society speaking on behalf of victims of crime, who in many cases, no longer have the ability to have their voice heard. Sentences ought be not solely focused on "punishment", but rather, primarily focused on preventing those so inclined to do harm, from doing so. Punitive portion of sentencing ought purely be for deterrence.

The presumption of innocence, or the presumption that a person will no to do harm, ought be removed once the harm has been done and the person who did the harm has been convicted. After that, the presumption of harm from that person ought to be assumed, and only once proven to no longer be a threat to society, should they be totally free.

From the probabilistic point of view, you are totally correct. If somebody displays anti-social behaviour, tortures and kills animals, or whatever, that person is more likely to offend and more likely to be the offender.

I think though, that the justice system is there to hold the cliche "fabric of society" together. Think of countries where conviction rates are in 99%+. The conviction is basically secured at the investigation stage.

Perhaps, our system misses a cycle or two, here and there. But it would take a serious push to have in Canada something like Chistka purges in USSR, Cultural Revolution in China, Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. I pray that doesn't happen.

There was this one individual Stalin's Gen. Vasily Blokhin who personally executed tens of thousands. They were all probably found guilty by some form of a trial. I can't believe for a second that there were that many people at one time in USSR who all deserved capital punishment. As long as that doesn't happen here, I'm ok with a handful of degenerates getting off until next time.

 

[Grey-St]

If he doesn't buy the eliminator, the steel, propane and everything else related to the Eliminator he could have practically bought Bosma's truck in cash - if that was financial motivated he needs a new accountant. MAYBE his dad was financial, the other two were clearly for the thrill of it.

I could not agree more with you, he could have easily bought the truck, especially considering the money he spent in total for the eliminator. It was all for the thrill, though. Even his father. I don't mean to sound morbid, but his father was getting up there, and had health problems. He would have passed eventually, and DM would have had his inheritance just like anticipated.

He wanted to murder, everything else was just a bonus.

And to take it even further, everything else didn't even end up being that much of a bonus? The truck was in no way usable after what they did. LB had maybe $3000 on her, and an iPad...

 

[Spartygirl]

Code, "Members of the jury, you may now retire and consider your verdict."

They've been dismissed.
by Shannon Martin 1:46 PM

Finally got caught up !!! Now the agonizing wait !! I have patience, I have patience (keep telling myself)
Bless these jurors and the Babcock family as we all wait for justice !!!

 

[Power of Two]

Hey, All! I have been following along with everyone, but have not taken the opportunity to post. I am not certain where or when I first twigged on to Laura's disappearance, but think it was very early on after Tim went missing. There were vague snippets in the media about Laura and also WM and his alleged suicide. I didn't follow the TB trial, as there was also the Garland investigation and subsequent trial going on, not to mention several others in Alberta. My brain was just too full of information and my heart too full of sadness. Now that we are so close, collectively, to some closure and answers for Laura, I pause to think about the parallels and differences in this trial and that of the Garland/Liknes/O'Brien murders. Both have persons who have taken planning, deceit, horror to a new level. Both cases have multiple victims who were seemingly in the wrong place at the wrong time. The men in each truly thought they were untouchable and beyond the law. Garland and Millard seemed to have a sexual/power thirst for blood and are totally bereft of any moral standard. The one contradiction to each other is that DM never seems to shut up and DG never opened his mouth. I am certain there are many other similarities and parallels between these two men and the heinous crimes they committed....some of which we know and perhaps some we will never know of. So, so many wasted lives.

 

[JuneBug67]

I could not agree more with you, he could have easily bought the truck, especially considering the money he spent in total for the eliminator. It was all for the thrill, though. Even his father. I don't mean to sound morbid, but his father was getting up there, and had health problems. He would have passed eventually, and DM would have had his inheritance just like anticipated.

He wanted to murder, everything else was just a bonus.

And to take it even further, everything else didn't even end up being that much of a bonus? The truck was in no way usable after what they did. LB had maybe $3000 on her, and an iPad...

It may be that Wayne’s plans to marry hastened along DM’s need to acquire his inheritance before any changes were made to his will. I wonder who got the other 50%. Perhaps MB? You can how DM would prefer that outcome.

 

[don_quixote]

I could not agree more with you, he could have easily bought the truck, especially considering the money he spent in total for the eliminator. It was all for the thrill, though. Even his father. I don't mean to sound morbid, but his father was getting up there, and had health problems. He would have passed eventually, and DM would have had his inheritance just like anticipated.

He wanted to murder, everything else was just a bonus.

And to take it even further, everything else didn't even end up being that much of a bonus? The truck was in no way usable after what they did. LB had maybe $3000 on her, and an iPad...

Come on, not even worth discussing. It made 0 financial sense. It was about killing. I already quoted this before, but here it is from Ted Bundy's. I find the parallels striking

He recounted his career as a thief, confirming Kloepfer's long-time suspicion that he had shoplifted virtually everything of substance that he owned.[SUP][233][/SUP] "The big payoff for me," he said, "was actually possessing whatever it was I had stolen. I really enjoyed having something ... that I had wanted and gone out and taken." Possession proved to be an important motive for rape and murder as well.[SUP][234][/SUP]Sexual assault, he said, fulfilled his need to "totally possess" his victims.[SUP][235][/SUP] At first, he killed his victims "as a matter of expediency ... to eliminate the possibility of [being] caught"; but later, murder became part of the "adventure". "The ultimate possession was, in fact, the taking of the life", he said. "And then ... the physical possession of the remains."[SUP][236][/SUP]

Rings the bell? May be the rape and torture speculation is not that far fetched.