LeAnna (Mom) #1

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Quick questions:

Is filicide always premeditated by definition? Or would something like shaken baby syndrome count as filicide?

How often is a child's murder premeditated and planned out? Do we know? I assume it's often masked as being an accident or the child simply disappears.

Here's an interesting paper on filicide. It discusses different motives, including filicide that is unintentional like by shaking. https://web.archive.org/web/2012041...tions.villanova.edu/Concept/2005/Filicide.pdf
 
I'm in Iowa and we have pretty harsh winters but the warnings about coats and car seats are everywhere when the temperatures start to drop. The straps just aren't tight enough when wearing a coat because the fabric compresses when under pressure. AAP says, " Bulky clothing, including winter coats and snowsuits, can compress in a crash and lead to increased risk of injury. Ideally, dress your baby in thinner layers and tuck a coat or a blanket around your baby over the buckled harness straps if needed" http://patiented.aap.org/content2.aspx?aid=6042

It's a pain in the rear but I put the kids' coats on backwards and then take them off once they are seated. Then I buckle them up and use the coat as a blanket over the buckles!

Thanks for your reply. I guess they do things differently in Iowa! Like I said, I've never, ever heard this ever discussed before, or ever seen a single parent do this. I'll check with my pedes and FP doc friends, too. UP here, we just adjust the straps to accommodate the outerwear at the beginning of the cold weather season. They should still fit snugly over the child. I have responded when on call to a number of carseat ejections over the years that arrived to the ER still in the carseats, from EMS transport-- and I can't remember a child without a coat in the winter. It's more likely the whole carseat will be ejected with the child in it, than the child ejected out of the seat due to loose straps, now that we have 5 point harnesses standard on all carseats.

However, if we are discussing small infants, say, under 7 or so months of age, then I can agree that the bucket style carriers are different. You can carry them into a warm building to put the small infant in, and they make lots of zippered blanket style bags that you pass the seat straps thru when securing, and then use an elastic blanket over wrap thingie on the whole bucket carrier. But once in a seated, installed carseat, every parent I have ever seen places the child in the seat with their coats on, and buckles the 5 point harness over it.

We can agree to move the discussion on, at this point! Cooper wasn't wearing a coat, presumably, so it doesn't matter. I would, however, strongly disagree that anyone who leaves a child's coat on in a carseat is an irresponsible parent.
 
Thanks for your reply. I guess they do things differently in Iowa! Like I said, I've never, ever heard this ever discussed before, or ever seen a single parent do this. I'll check with my pedes and FP doc friends, too. UP here, we just adjust the straps to accommodate the outerwear at the beginning of the cold weather season. They should still fit snugly over the child. I have responded when on call to a number of carseat ejections over the years that arrived to the ER still in the carseats, from EMS transport-- and I can't remember a child without a coat in the winter. It's more likely the whole carseat will be ejected with the child in it, than the child ejected out of the seat due to loose straps, now that we have 5 point harnesses standard on all carseats.

However, if we are discussing small infants, say, under 7 or so months of age, then I can agree that the bucket style carriers are different. You can carry them into a warm building to put the small infant in, and they make lots of zippered blanket style bags that you pass the seat straps thru when securing, and then use an elastic blanket over wrap thingie on the whole bucket carrier. But once in a seated, installed carseat, every parent I have ever seen places the child in the seat with their coats on, and buckles the 5 point harness over it.

We can agree to move the discussion on, at this point! Cooper wasn't wearing a coat, presumably, so it doesn't matter. I would, however, strongly disagree that anyone who leaves a child's coat on in a carseat is an irresponsible parent.

No offense meant! I was just trying to think of a good example where my husband and I do things differently regarding our children's safety and whether or not both parents should be considered guilty if one parent is neglectful. Apparently the no coats in car seats example was a poor choice!

Back on topic and to the point, I do not believe Leanna should be considered at fault if Ross left Cooper in the car accidentally. However, since I don't think Cooper's death was an accident, then I think it's right that the shadow of suspicion should fall on Leanna until we know the whole story (if that's possible).
 
And this is where I stand. LE knows that the tape will be available to the defense, jury. judge, etc. I can't imagine Det Stoddard offering it as damning if it was part of an innocent conversation.

I can. He believes RH is guilty of deliberately murdering Cooper. It was only a PCH and he wants a GJ indictment and a trial, not for the judge to find no probable cause and the charges to be dropped. This statement probably went a long way toward the judge finding probable cause to go forward to a GJ. I, too, want to see that video. JMO
 
Never underestimate the stupidly of anyone. We all know of people that
put up with far worse than the things you describe above. Imo


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I put up with far worse things myself. Sometimes people don't realize that a person might not have a choice because they don't know the big picture. It's not always stupidity. I certainly don't think I'm a stupid person--I'm just trapped in a stupid situation. Sometimes it makes sense when people realize why that person has no choice. Just saying.
 
I put up with far worse things myself. Sometimes people don't realize that a person might not have a choice because they don't know the big picture. It's not always stupidity. I certainly don't think I'm a stupid person--I'm just trapped in a stupid situation. Sometimes it makes sense when people realize why that person has no choice. Just saying.

I apologize. You are absolutely correct. Please accept my humble apology.
It was a very very poor word choice.


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I'm in Iowa and we have pretty harsh winters but the warnings about coats and car seats are everywhere when the temperatures start to drop. The straps just aren't tight enough when wearing a coat because the fabric compresses when under pressure. AAP says, " Bulky clothing, including winter coats and snowsuits, can compress in a crash and lead to increased risk of injury. Ideally, dress your baby in thinner layers and tuck a coat or a blanket around your baby over the buckled harness straps if needed" http://patiented.aap.org/content2.aspx?aid=6042

It's a pain in the rear but I put the kids' coats on backwards and then take them off once they are seated. Then I buckle them up and use the coat as a blanket over the buckles!
This is exactly what we teach parents and show them on discharge. Before they leave the hospital they have to bring in their carseat so we can check to make sure it isn't recalled, expired etc and make sure the child fits properly. jmo
 
I can. He believes RH is guilty of deliberately murdering Cooper. It was only a PCH and he wants a GJ indictment and a trial, not for the judge to find no probable cause and the charges to be dropped. This statement probably went a long way toward the judge finding probable cause to go forward to a GJ. I, too, want to see that video. JMO



Agree to disagree :blowkiss:
 
Never underestimate the stupidly of anyone. We all know of people that
put up with far worse than the things you describe above. Imo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been guilty of that in the past regarding my choice in partners.

The further you get away, the clearer your stupidity becomes! Hindsight is 20/20, if you're smart :wink:
 
I put up with far worse things myself. Sometimes people don't realize that a person might not have a choice because they don't know the big picture. It's not always stupidity. I certainly don't think I'm a stupid person--I'm just trapped in a stupid situation. Sometimes it makes sense when people realize why that person has no choice. Just saying.

bbm I so agree with this. Outsiders looking in don't know what they don't know.
 
I've been guilty of that in the past regarding my choice in partners.

The further you get away, the clearer your stupidity becomes! Hindsight is 20/20, if you're smart :wink:

I was always super intolerant when I was single and dating. I needed a man of their word, respectful, considerate, and HONEST. I never did second chances. Screw up once or annoy me to death, I'm done. I broke up with a guy because he chewed with his mouth open! I was not willing to sit across the table from that mess one more day, let alone a lifetime commitment like marriage.

People need to expect and demand more for themselves and not tolerate liars, cheaters, beaters, users or abusers.
No one deserves to be treated like that. That's not love. I wouldn't tolerate it from a best friend, I am certainly not putting up with it from some loser I dated for a minute.
If they're a crappy boyfriend/girlfriend expect it to get WAY worse if you marry!!!

All IMO


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An article about paternal filicide (with admittedly small sample - just 10 men):

http://ww1.cpa-apc.org:8080/French_Site/Publications/Archives/CJP/1999/Feb/marleau.htm

Some excerpts:

Results: Many situational factors were present during the period preceding the offence (such as the possibility of a separation or financial problems). Most of these homicides have been classified as pathological filicides. At the time of the offence, the most frequent diagnoses were mood disorders. Eight subjects had personality disorders, one-half of which were borderline personality disorders. Four men had psychotic symptoms at the time of the offence. Six of the 10 men also killed or attempted to kill their spouses.

Motivation for the Offences

Situational Factors. Many situational factors were present during the period immediately preceding the offence. Most of the subjects were of low socioeconomic status when they committed the offence. Seven men were unemployed at the time of the offence: of these, 5 (B,D,E,G,J) were receiving social assistance or unemployment benefits. One man (F) had just lost his job, while 2 others (G,I) were struggling with serious financial problems.

In general, these men had poor social support networks. Their interpersonal contacts were mainly restricted to their spouses and children. Some of the men experienced stress factors related to their victims: one man (D) was not sure that he was the biological father of his child, and another (B) was disturbed by the fact that his girlfriend was paying more attention to their son than to him.

Conjugal stress often seemed to be related to the offences.
...
 
RSBM and BBM. No, it doesn't IMO. It doesn't absolve her of her parental responsibility to ensure Cooper's safety. She too googled hot car deaths by her own admission, it is her GREATEST fear, so what did she do? Nothing. No use of aides memoires in the car to remind him the baby was there, no implementation of precautionary measures such as a drop off text/call check system. No, she googled this and she still did NOTHING to prevent this happening to her child whether that be by wilful intention or accidental forgetfulness on the part of her husband.

If that were really true, then I just can't understand her calm declaration that "Ross must have left him in the car", or the whole stand by your man performance that she gave at the funeral. If this truly was her greatest fear, if she had chided Ross about this in the past or, even worse, if he had actually done this previously, then why did she seem so unperturbed by it all?
 
I put up with far worse things myself. Sometimes people don't realize that a person might not have a choice because they don't know the big picture. It's not always stupidity. I certainly don't think I'm a stupid person--I'm just trapped in a stupid situation. Sometimes it makes sense when people realize why that person has no choice. Just saying.

You are right, it is isn't out of stupidity. In fact, it is never out of stupidity. Just know there are always resources to turn to. Always.

JMO
 
You are right, it is isn't out of stupidity. In fact, it is never out of stupidity. Just know there are always resources to turn to. Always.

JMO

In my case there are NO resources to turn to, none at all as far as I can see, and I've been struggling to find a solution for 14 years. I just don't see a solution that would not be detrimental to me. It is what it is. Sorry for the O/T, I just wanted to convey that I could look at LH and say if I were in her shoes I would leave RH and never look back, but if I put those shoes on myself, they might fit a little differently.
 
Oh I simply must know the meaning behind your screen name...please tell!

Hi Linda, I'm finally catching up and saw this post. It's Peed off in NY. I am not very creative and at the time I was so aggravated w/ my husband and the Anthony fiasco (Still am w/ both situations by the way) - and didn't think I could get away with 'pissed' off. LOL

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
I was always super intolerant when I was single and dating. I needed a man of their word, respectful, considerate, and HONEST. I never did second chances. Screw up once or annoy me to death, I'm done. I broke up with a guy because he chewed with his mouth open! I was not willing to sit across the table from that mess one more day, let alone a lifetime commitment like marriage.

People need to expect and demand more for themselves and not tolerate liars, cheaters, beaters, users or abusers.
No one deserves to be treated like that. That's not love. I wouldn't tolerate it from a best friend, I am certainly not putting up with it from some loser I dated for a minute.
If they're a crappy boyfriend/girlfriend expect it to get WAY worse if you marry!!!

All IMO


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LOL, I feel the same way about people chewing with their mouths open!
 
I've been guilty of that in the past regarding my choice in partners.

The further you get away, the clearer your stupidity becomes! Hindsight is 20/20, if you're smart :wink:

Totally agree with your post, been there done that. It's amazing how bright the sun is once you get out of the fog.
 
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