Let's talk about the letters

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm going to bring my post from other thread over to this one because I want to add something to it.

Here's my original post:

Now I'm going to put my linguistics student/English teacher hat back on (please, no jokes about being cunning ):

I could understand his use of the term 'mean' when describing these murders if English was not his first language, or if he was autistic,or of limited intelligence, or younger than 12. Since he doesn't appear to fall into any of these categories, then there's no rational reason why an educated person speaking his native tongue would choose this adjective. The most common adjectives that we would use in English to describe this situation would be: horrible, awful, scary, terrifying, disgusting, vicious, savage, deranged, etc. 'Mean' is something an average person would use to describe kids who have spray-painted graffiti on a building, or to describe that stereotypical old-man on the block who yells at kids when they ride their bikes across his grass. It would not be used by 99.99999% of the native English-speaking population to describe murders.

Thank you for mentioning the bit in the letters where CPH describes this story as being 'important'. If this was an important story, would one call it 'mean'? Not in my opinion. They'd use words like 'horrific', 'terrifying', or a phrase like 'deadly serious' when talking about the events of this "important story". MOO.

Adding on:
In addition to the strange use of the term 'mean', I also think it's extremely weird that in 2011, a native-English speaking educated adult would use the term 'calling card' instead of the more common and appropriate 'business card'. This isn't Victorian England and we simply don't leave 'calling cards'. In fact, the typical connotation of that term in 2011 is that a calling card is a sign left behind by someone (it's usually associated with serial killers) for others to know that that particular person was responsible for something. We just don't use that term interchangeably with 'business card' any more. I've never, ever encountered someone using that term when they were referring to their business card. Usually they'll just say, "here's my card" or "could I have one of your cards?" I also think that his misspelling of Shannan's name after he initially spelled it correctly is very suspicious, IMO.

I've had very similiar thoughts on these things, Chantal.

"Mean" vs. a more appropriate adjective: to me, this shows a socially awkward attempt at expressing empathy. I would expect this from someone who doesn't feel what a normal person should feel, and therefore struggles to try to adapt appropriate words for feelings that just aren't there. A child would do this (because they are still learning), and undereducated person would do this (because they have a limited vocabulary)...but a doctor?! A highly educated individual who chooses a field where compassion and empathy are normally at the fore?! VERY odd.

calling card vs. business card : I also noted the symbology of "calling card" and found it strange. But I think what we have here is more of an awkward attempt at "distancing". CPH was trying to avoid making a connection between SG's disappearance and his "business". Why? Because he's trying to cover his tracks from the slip up he made the morning he called the family and said he was treating SG at his rehab facility. His "business card" therefore becomes merely a "calling card", completely unrelated to what he does for a living.

The one word I could use to describe BOTH of these oddities is "awkward", and it's also a word I could use to describe CPH as a whole. From the way he walks into the house while his wife takes over an interview, to the way he converses with reporters while standing in the doorway of his house...awkward. I don't care what he does for a living, or how many people he's interacted with on a daily basis, this is a man who is not confortable and confident when it comes to social interactions.

JMO

 

[Peter Brendt]

Somehow, a lot of this is hindsight-repair. It appears, JB was Gilbert's client. At some point SG ran out, allegedly followed by the driver and JB. No need to involve the doctor at all ... unless ...
How are doctors involved in anything? Normally because someone suspects someone else has an acute medical condition. In fact, even for a retired doctor this is still more likely than just to stumble by accident over someone. I wouldn't estimate the calling card bit too high in that case, because doctors hand calling cards with their phone numbers also when they are the visited person, in case the visitor=patient (or someone in relation to the patient) have to call with additional questions. And given, that most people you meet in the US introduce themselves with first name (opposite to Europe) would indicate for the letters, that he remembers such first names, but not necessarily their surnames.
The real interesting bit is the "treat" part. What is he treated her or was at least on standby to do so, but can't admit to it because the reason for treating SG would indicate other illegal activity? SG had a history of drug abuse and I remember from other cases in Europe, that some Johns paid in drugs not cash alone. Gilbert's behavior when she was on the run, included fear, panic, but there is also something looking like confusion in hiding under a boat instead to go in with the man, she just begged to help her.
Lets speculate here a little: If SG took some drugs that night and went on a bad trip, it would explain a lot of the details. And if JB called his friend and neighbor in, I would bet, it's not because this friend and neighbor was such a friendly soul, but rather because Brewer dared. And he dared, because Hackett was in it from the start. The drug game, that is.
I am not sure in the first place, that Gilbert was killed by the LISK2 (to me LISK is still Joe Rifkin). And the finding of the bodies boiled up a far bigger story, causing Hackett to write those letters and clean himself. Which isn't easy, if he is dirty with another kind of dirt. He tried by calling the family on behalf of the pimp. Would he do that, if he is a serial killer? I don't think so. But if he is involved in the Oak Beach Prostitute Party circle in any form, which, given the drug history of SG, is possible at least, he would, because then the pimp can call in favors simply based on the fact, that he knows about the parties. The letters show confusion, uncertainty and the desperate wish to come out of the whole story. But if that guy would be a cold blooded serial killerm he would for sure have a better alibi than "I was at home and slept with my wife".

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It isn't speculation that SG was intoxicated the morning of her disappearance, it's a fairly well established fact. Gus Coletti says so, the police have said so, even JB said so (although, understandably, his statements must be taken with a grain of salt).

It isn't an established fact that CPH called the family of SG claiming she was being treated by him in his rehab facility. All we can say with certainty is that, according to SG's family, someone claiming to be CPH called them and told them that he was treating Shannan in his rehab facility.

(This is me being a pain in the butt about acurracy. Carry on.)

 

[truthspider]

It isn't speculation that SG was intoxicated the morning of her disappearance, it's a fairly well established fact. Gus Coletti says so, the police have said so, even JB said so (although, understandably, his statements must be taken with a grain of salt).

It isn't an established fact that CPH called the family of SG claiming she was being treated by him in his rehab facility. All we can say with certainty is that, according to SG's family, someone claiming to be CPH called them and told them that he was treating Shannan in his rehab facility.

(This is me being a pain in the butt about acurracy. Carry on.)

"All we can say with certainty is that, according to SG's family, someone claiming to be CPH called them and told them that he was treating Shannan in his rehab facility."

... AND that CPH did in fact call SG's family on more than one occasion. He signed the letter to 48 hrs, open the pdf in acrobat and you can simply pull away the black box covering his signature. If he didn't write these letters, we certainly would have heard something from him or his lawyers.

If you believe that CPH's documented call is a different call then the "rehab call" and it's just a coincidence that the scapegoat was infinitely unlucky and called the family around the same time as the real killer ... well that's your business.

Convictions have happened with enough "accumulation of coincidence" before.

CPH should play lotto, maybe the universe will swing back and balance out his horrible luck in the past :crazy: Then he can have lunch with Timothy Bindner, they would have so much to talk about!

 

[Peter Brendt]

You are not a pain in the *advertiser censored*, you just do good work. I wasn't sure about Coletti and JB is for me someone to enjoy more with a sack of salt than just a grain. But all pointed to the fact, SG was intoxicated. The question to me is, to what degree. She had a history of all kinds of stuff and I would, without personal experience, that bodies get used to that over time like it is with drinking. So her behavior that night appears more like a bad trip or something on the edge of an overdose. Which maybe could it made necessary for JB to involve someone with more medical knowledge. And the first idea coming to mind for that is the guy who is a doctor, lives in the neighborhood and was involved in the organization of all that cool board parties. But maybe, that's only my suspicious nature.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I am not sure, Truthspider, but personally, I feel better with convictions based on hard evidence than prosecutions of a lot of soft stuff. See, how the Casey Anthony case played out.
The letters appear to me more like CPH is wording his way around the treatment claim.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

You are not a pain in the *advertiser censored*, you just do good work. I wasn't sure about Coletti and JB is for me someone to enjoy more with a sack of salt than just a grain. But all pointed to the fact, SG was intoxicated. The question to me is, to what degree. She had a history of all kinds of stuff and I would, without personal experience, that bodies get used to that over time like it is with drinking. So her behavior that night appears more like a bad trip or something on the edge of an overdose. Which maybe could it made necessary for JB to involve someone with more medical knowledge. And the first idea coming to mind for that is the guy who is a doctor, lives in the neighborhood and was involved in the organization of all that cool board parties. But maybe, that's only my suspicious nature.

I've speculated along those same lines many times, Peter. If we can believe MP , we are left with a scenario in which SG and JB leave Oak Beach in JB's car for about 10 minutes (according to mp). If we are to believe JB, we then have a scenario in which SG goes into the bathroom for a period of time and emerges completely whacked out. The problem is...CAN we believe either of these 2 men?

I'm of the opinion that there are grains of truth in both of their stories. But I can't consider them established fact. So...what do you do with info like that? Figure it in? Dismiss it altogether? Set it on the backburner and wait for something to come along to corroborate it?

It's just frustrating. :banghead:

 

[Peter Brendt]

@Mountain_Kat: I came to profiling like the virgin to a baby, originally because I tried to figure out, what about the many legends and myths we "know" about historical figures can be true in the first place and that meant to figure who has reason to lie in the first place. From history to presence it was only one step more. What I learned is, sometimes people tell things that have little kinks in the technical possibilities.

Look at JB's story. The guy picks his prostitutes from Craigslist, and the girls there are not the cheapest. But still, he picks for example SG (who, no offense intended, isn't all but high class). SG has a long history of drug abuse. So, is it possible at all, that she can drug herself out of control in just ten minutes? Is it likely, she had even enough drugs with her to do so? The stuff costs money. SG had not much of that. So that leaves us with JB, who has money and has the place. So we are left with the scenario, JB had the drugs and added the girl for some late night partying. I believe JB to the point, that SG was in his house and drugged herself up, but the claim, the stash used was hers and she went with it to the bathroom is the bridge I can't cross.
And MP? His story lacks any credibility in that part. It's pure defense. They went away, put their drugs in and came back ... yeah right.
My guess is, if LE would send some of JB's hair to a lab, the result would be interesting.

 

[jimmydo]

Let's talk about the letters PH sent to 48 hours.
Not on their face value, rather what we can read 'between the lines', so to speak.

I find it very strange that tPH has interjected himself into this case. I'm not the only one that wants to know...WHY DID HE DO THAT? o_0

IMO, the entire premise behind his call/s to MG is to establish a cover story about why SG is/is not missing. I believe that is the entire reason PH called MG in the first place.

To paraphrase the gist of what PH is trying to say: "Hi, MG. I'm Dr. PH. I just wanted you to know your daughter isn't missing at all. In fact, she's in a rehab I run to help people just like SG recover from the drug addiction/profession paradigm. Please do not worry about SG, her fate rests in my hands."

Now let’s look at PH’s letters to 48 Hours. I won’t place a great amount of scrutiny on the first letter. Let’s focus on the second letter, shall we?

There are stories about PH's claims he didn’t call MG. Then he says he did call MG, and called SG’s sister too. To say he did and did not call MG are diametrically opposite statements. Therefore, only one statement can be true and it proves PH lied about the phone calls. When anyone being asked questions about their activities as they relate to an investigation into a missing person case, false statements are also obstruction of justice . The calls make me wonder: What else has PH lied about?

One very strange detail: In the second letter to 48 Hours PH claims he called AD, and categorically states: “There is only one bill which has calls documented to Kingston, New York. It shows I spoke with Alex on May 6th, 2010 @ 7:20pm.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/48_hours_gilbert.pdf

All I’d like to know is what phone company PH has phone service with, because he gets unbelievable phone bills that not only show the number that was called, the bill ALSO SHOWS WHO THE CALLER SPOKE WITH!

The second letter is a futile attempt to create a cover story about the phone calls PH made to AD, MG and SG's sister. As I pointed out, phone bills do reflect the numbers that were called. However, phone bills do not reflect who the caller spoke with.

IMO, PH interjected himself into this situation when he made those calls.
Later, realizing the HUGE MISTAKE he had made, PH tries to do damage control by distancing himself from the call/s. He tries to plant the idea he spoke with AD rather than MG. Why would PH do any of these things?

IMO, this is the ONLY WAY he can explain having the phone number/s WITHOUT DIRECTLY TYING HIMSELF TO SG AND HER CELL PHONE!

FYI: I'm new to the Web Sleuths community (this is my first comment). I carefully combed the threads about PH's calls/letters and did not see anyone post a similar comment. All apologies if my comment covers a topic that's already been addressed.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Let's talk about the letters PH sent to 48 hours.
Not on their face value, rather what we can read 'between the lines', so to speak.

I find it very strange that tPH has interjected himself into this case. I'm not the only one that wants to know...WHY DID HE DO THAT? o_0

IMO, the entire premise behind his call/s to MG is to establish a cover story about why SG is/is not missing. I believe that is the entire reason PH called MG in the first place.

To paraphrase the gist of what PH is trying to say: "Hi, MG. I'm Dr. PH. I just wanted you to know your daughter isn't missing at all. In fact, she's in a rehab I run to help people just like SG recover from the drug addiction/profession paradigm. Please do not worry about SG, her fate rests in my hands."

Now let’s look at PH’s letters to 48 Hours. I won’t place a great amount of scrutiny on the first letter. Let’s focus on the second letter, shall we?

There are stories about PH's claims he didn’t call MG. Then he says he did call MG, and called SG’s sister too. To say he did and did not call MG are diametrically opposite statements. Therefore, only one statement can be true and it proves PH lied about the phone calls. When anyone being asked questions about their activities as they relate to an investigation into a missing person case, false statements are also obstruction of justice . The calls make me wonder: What else has PH lied about?

One very strange detail: In the second letter to 48 Hours PH claims he called AD, and categorically states: “There is only one bill which has calls documented to Kingston, New York. It shows I spoke with Alex on May 6th, 2010 @ 7:20pm.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/48_hours_gilbert.pdf

All I’d like to know is what phone company PH has phone service with, because he gets unbelievable phone bills that not only show the number that was called, the bill ALSO SHOWS WHO THE CALLER SPOKE WITH!

The second letter is a futile attempt to create a cover story about the phone calls PH made to AD, MG and SG's sister. As I pointed out, phone bills do reflect the numbers that were called. However, phone bills do not reflect who the caller spoke with.

IMO, PH interjected himself into this situation when he made those calls.
Later, realizing the HUGE MISTAKE he had made, PH tries to do damage control by distancing himself from the call/s. He tries to plant the idea he spoke with AD rather than MG. Why would PH do any of these things?

IMO, this is the ONLY WAY he can explain having the phone number/s WITHOUT DIRECTLY TYING HIMSELF TO SG AND HER CELL PHONE!

FYI: I'm new to the Web Sleuths community (this is my first comment). I carefully combed the threads about PH's calls/letters and did not see anyone post a similar comment. All apologies if my comment covers a topic that's already been addressed.

And even if it would be a repeat, sometimes, it helps to go over the stuff again after a situation changed.
The question is, was CPH in the attempt to cover up what happened to SG or was he involved in her murder. Which as of yet is a little unclear, since we don't know she was murdered in the first place.
The point that strikes me in all of this is:

- JB ordered himself a prostitute
- Pak drove her out to JB
- then she was in the house till she ran away drugged
- SG was seen and so was Pak searching for her

No CPH so far. So when did he get involved in the first place? Because CPH on the behavioral side behaves like a really bad liar trying to cover something up. But since he couldn't know about SG's existence if not either Pak or JB called him in, the question is who and when? JB is much more likely than his neighbor JB. And logically, you call a doctor not when someone is already dead, but earlier, when the person in question is in trouble but still breathing (and yes, normally to keep them breathing).
My guess, and it's really only a guess, is, that SG went out of control a little earlier than generally assumed. JB, who obviously has some party experience, called the only discrete doc he knew (and it still wouldn't make me wonder if CPH was also his resident dealer), afraid, SG had OD'ed. So this stranger comes in, SG panics and runs out and the chaos begins. She stumbles over Coletti, then rushed off again, Coletti sees Pak following her, but it was dark and he had anyway not much of a chance to find her after she was in the reed. Even if she died by accident as a consequence of drug abuse, there was a need to cover it up because there was a lot more that would justify an investigation, from the drug party in JB's house to CPH involvement in that part of the Oak Beach society. And CPH, a bad liar, tries to win time, then to distance himself and so on, till he entangles himself deep enough in contradictions. But as I said, that's my guess and a guess only.

 

[jimmydo]

"My guess, and it's really only a guess, is, that SG went out of control a little earlier than generally assumed. JB, who obviously has some party experience, called the only discrete doc he knew (and it still wouldn't make me wonder if CPH was also his resident dealer), afraid, SG had OD'ed. So this stranger comes in, SG panics and runs out and the chaos begins."


<Mod Snip>

It's nearly impossible for you to reconcile two things in your chain of events:
IF, and I mean IF SG was drugged so much that the party-goers thought she had OD'd and was going to die, do you really think SG would recognize anything whatsoever? I mean...we ARE talking about someone who is on the verge of death and needs medical intervention, right?

<Mod Snip>
IF, and I mean IF SG was drugged nearly to death and needed medical intervention, just what makes her capable of running from anyone?
We are talking about someone on the verge of death and needs medical intervention, right?

<Mod Snip>.

 

[Doop]

Im still befuddled by these so called letters. He allegedly call Mrs. Gilbert and the he writes he didnt. There are so many contradictions in this case. To many questions no real answers.

 

[Peter Brendt]

"My guess, and it's really only a guess, is, that SG went out of control a little earlier than generally assumed. JB, who obviously has some party experience, called the only discrete doc he knew (and it still wouldn't make me wonder if CPH was also his resident dealer), afraid, SG had OD'ed. So this stranger comes in, SG panics and runs out and the chaos begins."

I'm sorry, you totally lost me with this theory.
:banghead:

Okay, lets word it easier then:
Step 1: JB, the drifter and SG have a little drug party in JB's house.
Step 2: SG gets a little too much or the wrong stuff and goes out of control
Step 3: JB and the drifter, both users but no M.D.s get in panic
Step 4: JB calls the doctor in the neighborhood to help out in case it is dangerous. Because he would so hate to have a dead body and the police in there.
Step 5: The doctor comes over
Step 6: SG in her drug rush sees only a stranger, she doesn't know the doctor. So suddenly there is a man, she doesn't know and starts to examine her (even it's only casually). The result, under the assumption she is on a bad trip is inevitable: Complete paranoia and the acting on it.
Step 7: She runs out, thinking someone is about to do something bad to her
Step 8: Coletti, the eyewitness sees her, describing her later as desoriented. He sees also Pak and the black SUV and states, Pak went after SG.

It's not that hard to understand.

It's nearly impossible for you to reconcile two things in your chain of events:
IF, and I mean IF SG was drugged so much that the party-goers thought she had OD'd and was going to die, do you really think SG would recognize anything whatsoever? I mean...we ARE talking about someone who is on the verge of death and needs medical intervention, right?

Since she ran a short time later, she was obviously not on the verge of dead, but out of control. Which would for most people in the situation cause a sense of urgency and maybe the thought, some medical attention is needed. And btw, you would wonder, how near people can be to death and still register things from their surroundings.

OK, moving on...
IF, and I mean IF SG was drugged nearly to death and needed medical intervention, just what makes her capable of running from anyone?
We are talking about someone on the verge of death and needs medical intervention, right?

No, we are not talking about near death, the white light and stopping breathing or heartbeat. We talk about "out of control", "loss of reality" and in general a situation in which JB had to be afraid, bad things were about to happen.

<Mod Snip>quote]

Wow, if you dismiss everything, you don't understand, you will be probably a busy guy ...

 

[the quiet girl]

I am going to take Shannan's word someone was trying to kill her, that is a fact according to her.
I do not think she was out of control she made a wise choice to call 911, that is after all what we are taught/told to do.

 

[jimmydo]

Step 4: JB calls the doctor in the neighborhood to help out in case it is dangerous. Because he would so hate to have a dead body and the police in there...

Sorry Peter...your theory just keeps getting worse.

So here we have Dr. PH in the neighborhood. The local 'party boys' call the Dr. and say:
'Hey Doc, we have a bad situation on our hands. A couple of us were doing some illegal drugs and one of the guests has OD'd and is flipping out. Can you come bail us out of this mess before we get in trouble?'

At that point, the Dr. rushes right over and gets himself involved with a cover-up?
Seriously?

No Doctor anywhere is going to throw away their personal and professional integrity (not to mention their license to practice medicine and career) to help the neighborhood party boys who have drugs and a suspected OD victim who is 'flipping out' inside their house!

Your theory only makes sense if the OD victim is near death and needs medical intervention immediately to save their life.

 

[Just K]

That scene from "Pulp Fiction" comes to mind, where Mia (Thurman), the gangster's wife, looks in the pocket of her bodyguard's, Vincent (Travolta's) overcoat. Finding what she thinks is cocaine, she snorts a huge line. It was heroin and when Travolta comes out of the bathroom Mia is almost dead. He rushes her to the home of a dealer where the dealer's wife (Roseanna Arquette) injects Mia, directly into the heart, with what we assume is adrenalin/epinephrine. Mia miraculously comes to life. She finds herself in a different place, with two strangers standing over her...one with a huge needle, her shirt is open and there is dried blood on her face.

 

[jimmydo]

Your theory only makes sense if the OD victim is near death and needs medical intervention immediately to save their life.

Even if the victim has OD'd and IS near unconsciousness/death (which you say is not the case), kindly explain how the victim can recognize the person trying to HELP represents a threat, is able to use their phone to call 911 (a 23 minute conversation no less), and run from the scene? Those actions are NOT indicative of someone needing immediate medical intervention, are they?

 

[Peter Brendt]

That scene from "Pulp Fiction" comes to mind, where Mia, the gangster's wife, looks in the pocket of her bodyguard's (Travolta's) overcoat. Finding what she thinks is cocaine, she snorts a huge line. It was heroin and when Travolta comes out of the bathroom Mia is almost dead. He rushes her to the home of a dealer where the dealer's wife (Roseanna Arquette) injects Mia, directly into the heart, with what we assume is adrenalin/epinephrine. Mia miraculously comes to life. She finds herself in a different place, with two strangers standing over her...one with a huge needle, her shirt is open and there is dried blood on her face.

You ost me here a bit due to lack of movie knowledge, but basically, it's the core idea what could have made SG run out in panic. By all means, those drugs used for "recreation" are used in the first place because they are psychoactive substances.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry Peter...your theory just keeps getting worse.

So here we have Dr. PH in the neighborhood. The local 'party boys' call the Dr. and say:
'Hey Doc, we have a bad situation on our hands. A couple of us were doing some illegal drugs and one of the guests has OD'd and is flipping out. Can you come bail us out of this mess before we get in trouble?'

At that point, the Dr. rushes right over and gets himself involved with a cover-up?
Seriously?

No Doctor anywhere is going to throw away their personal and professional integrity (not to mention their license to practice medicine and career) to help the neighborhood party boys who have drugs and a suspected OD victim who is 'flipping out' inside their house!

Your theory only makes sense if the OD victim is near death and needs medical intervention immediately to save their life.

Well, thanks for coming in and setting us all right straight

I personally know of a doctor who was basically on the payroll of organized crime. Then of course Conrad Murray springs to mind (lots of integrity there that gone thrown away due to drugs and greed).

So yeah ... you are right that no doctor is going to throw away their personal and professional integrity ... but that's assuming they had it to start with.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Well, thanks for coming in and setting us all right straight

I personally know of a doctor who was basically on the payroll of organized crime. Then of course Conrad Murray springs to mind (lots of integrity there that gone thrown away due to drugs and greed).

So yeah ... you are right that no doctor is going to throw away their personal and professional integrity ... but that's assuming they had it to start with.

Not to mention, that the RETIRED doctor, who had no career anymore anyway had some substance problems in his own past, lived in the neighborhood, had still the possibility to write prescriptions and proved all by himself, that he is involved in the whole mess.
Have a Merry Christmas!