Lies point us to the truth

[icedtea4me]

So quickly he was over heard talking to his pal DS two days after the murder about how JB was strangled.

Are you saying it would've been 100% impossible for Burke to have overheard something that night?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Are you saying it would've been 100% impossible for Burke to have overheard something that night?

Not according to his story.

 

[UKGuy]

Here is what Patsy says she could hear, it illustrates the acoustics quite well:

BPD 1998 Patsy-Interview, Excerpt

1 TOM HANEY: Okay, we are back on

2 tape. I have 10:30. And before we go into the

3 names that I mentioned, we do have a couple of

4 follow-up questions.

5 One, would the children normally go

6 downstairs if they woke up or would they stay on

7 their floor or--

8 PATSY RAMSEY: They would typically

9 stay on their floor. They had a TV, play room,

10 stay on that floor.

11 TRIP DeMUTH: So in the middle of

12 the night did they ever go downstairs, if they

13 woke up in the night would they go down into the

14 kitchen, let's say?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

16 TRIP DeMUTH: And could you hear

17 them go to the bathroom?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: I could hear

19 Burke go to the bathroom, because his

20 bathroom is sort of more toward the end of

21 our bedroom.

22 TRIP DeMUTH: How about

23 JonBenet?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: I wouldn't hear her

25 go.

0073

1 TRIP DeMUTH: Could you hear her

2 toilet flush or anything, the plumbing?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Could you hear

5 the garage door from your bedroom go up and

6 down?

7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

 

[icedtea4me]

Not according to his story.

I see you think it would be logical for Burke to be forthcoming about what he heard that night, especially if it was from his mom and/or dad.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I see you think it would be logical for Burke to be forthcoming about what he heard that night, especially if it was from his mom and/or dad.

Let’s let logic dictate:
If after two days his sister was murdered he is overheard talking to his best buddy about how she was strangled and 13 days later he is telling the psychiatrist that a knife was used and she was hit over the head; how do you explain this knowledge? You believe he overheard these details? If so, when?

 

[Logic101]

Let’s let logic dictate:
If after two days his sister was murdered he is overheard talking to his best buddy about how she was strangled and 13 days later he is telling the psychiatrist that a knife was used and she was hit over the head; how do you explain this knowledge? You believe he overheard these details? If so, when?

Do you honestly believe that SS would have said anything incriminating about her best friend’s son! She said that it sounded like they were discussing a movie or something like that.

One of the main issues I had with Kolar’s book, were the conclusions he formed for no apparent reason. It’s like keep on guessing Burke until you get something right on how your sister died. The only role a knife might have played in the whole scenario, possibly used to cut the cord/rope.

I was in total shock that so many people took Kolar’s conclusions at face value without questioning a thing!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Do you honestly believe that SS would have said anything incriminating about her best friend’s son! She said that it sounded like they were discussing a movie or something like that.

Yes apparently she did:
Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.”

BR knew way to much about her manner of death considering his parents said they never discussed it with him. Also, BR stated his parents told him nothing except that JB was in heaven. Out of the mouth of babes.

One of the main issues I had with Kolar’s book, were the conclusions he formed for no apparent reason. It’s like keep on guessing Burke until you get something right on how your sister died. The only role a knife might have played in the whole scenario, possibly used to cut the cord/rope.

Let’s not forget that Kolar was a lead investigator in this case with the ability to review mountains of evidence that you and I cannot. The knife could have also been used to tie knots.

I was in total shock that so many people took Kolar’s conclusions at face value without questioning a thing!

Please remember this is Kaempfer‘s recollection not just Kolar’s sharing of investigative information.

 

[Logic101]

Yes apparently she did:
Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.”

BR knew way to much about her manner of death considering his parents said they never discussed it with him. Also, BR stated his parents told him nothing except that JB was in heaven. Out of the mouth of babes.



Let’s not forget that Kolar was a lead investigator in this case with the ability to review mountains of evidence that you and I cannot. The knife could have also been used to tie knots.



Please remember this is Kaempfer‘s recollection not just Kolar’s sharing of investigative information.

Sorry, but I don’t consider someone who came on the scene 9 years AFTER THE FACT , as a
lead investigator of anything! You would have to consider him more of a cold case reviewer!

Again, SS saw nothing suspicious about the conversation between the boys, unfortunately, that came about from people with too much idle time on their hands and gossip on their brains!

 

[icedtea4me]

Sorry, but I don’t consider someone who came on the scene 9 years AFTER THE FACT , as a
lead investigator of anything! You would have to consider him more of a cold case reviewer!

Again, SS saw nothing suspicious about the conversation between the boys, unfortunately, that came about from people with too much idle time on their hands and gossip on their brains!

You know, hitting a kidnap victim on the head to render them unconscious is pretty standard in many tv shows and movies.

 

[UKGuy]

Let’s let logic dictate:
If after two days his sister was murdered he is overheard talking to his best buddy about how she was strangled and 13 days later he is telling the psychiatrist that a knife was used and she was hit over the head; how do you explain this knowledge? You believe he overheard these details? If so, when?

Rain on my Parade,
These points have been aired before. Now to explain away Burke's knowledge regarding the use of a knife, you have to show this factoid was never broadcast by the media?

The interesting subtext to this is John and Patsy's claim that they never spoke to Burke regarding JonBenet's death or its details after packing him off with Fleet White.


This seems bizarre but its what they said in interview, so theoretically Burke should actually know little, unless he was reading the National Enquirer?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

You know, hitting a kidnap victim on the head to render them unconscious is pretty standard in many tv shows and movies.

You mean like the book ‘Mindhunter by John Douglas’ on JR bedside table?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Sorry, but I don’t consider someone who came on the scene 9 years AFTER THE FACT , as a
lead investigator of anything! You would have to consider him more of a cold case reviewer!

Your entitled to your opinion as a I am mine.
In Kolar’s own words: I handled one lead for the Boulder Police Department within a week of the murder, but my official involvement in the JBR investigation started when I was appointed chief investigator for the Boulder District Attorney’s office in 2005. I had been with their office as an investigator for about a year before I was asked to take the lead in the case.

Again, SS saw nothing suspicious about the conversation between the boys, unfortunately, that came about from people with too much idle time on their hands and gossip on their brains!

But, apparently she did. Actually, Stine didn't "report" the conversation. Instead, she related it to the mother of one of Burke's friends who went to Atlanta for the funeral. BPD interviewed her (Mary Ann Kaempfer) when she returned from Georgia and found out about the discussion.
The discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than 2 days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
These points have been aired before. Now to explain away Burke's knowledge regarding the use of a knife, you have to show this factoid was never broadcast by the media?

The interesting subtext to this is John and Patsy's claim that they never spoke to Burke regarding JonBenet's death or its details after packing him off with Fleet White.


This seems bizarre but its what they said in interview, so theoretically Burke should actually know little, unless he was reading the National Enquirer?

.

UKGuy,
As you have pointed out in earlier posts BR should not have been aware of the details of JB death since the AR still had not been released.
The only logical explanation I can come up with for BR to be privy to such information is if:

1. He was a witness in the basement
2. He was a contributor

Surely, (One would hope) his folks would want to spare BR from the gruesome details.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

For years, I have questioned why the RN was read ON THE FLOOR. There is a perfectly good countertop in the kitchen with overhead lights. Why on earth would any adult choose instead to crouch or kneel on the floor to read something so important?

I would suggest that even forensic aware parents, such as LE, FBI, etc., would have a very difficult time not grabbing the RN in the moments after they first learn that their child has been abducted.

Additional thoughts:
- Were PR's fingerprints on it? If not, why?Why would she not pick up pages of writing left on the stairs? What would cause her to assume something was wrong and not to touch the letter? For all an innocent person knew, it could have been misplaced homework, to do lists, business meeting notes, Christmas greetings, a note from staff, or scores of other similarly innocuous communique.

- I can't fault her for not reading the RN in its entirety before screaming. That's a reasonable response. However, I think most people would scream in horror and, with letter in hand, would do one's best to simultaneously continue reading and running toward the spouse and older child. My husband would not make it out of the shower before I bolted up the steps to show the letter to him.

- Why doesn't anyone collect BR and keep him with the family? I would be terrified for my daughter, who had been kidnapped, and for the remaining family. They'd not be able to leave my sight. For all anyone knew, the kidnapper(s) could return to abscond with another family member.

- To a person, there seems a terrible lack of affect. I realize everyone deals with grief differently. However, if the Rs are to be believed, they didn't know that JBR was deceased. MOO, people's immediate response to worry and fear for a child's safety, especially their own child, is more homogenous in nature. I would expect all 3 family members to be highly emotive, at least in the short term.

- The fact that JR reads the RN without holding it defies reason. That is the ONLY link to his now missing daughter. I would have scoured its contents and scrutinized every pen stroke for even the slightest clue that might help bring her back safely home to me.

- I am perplexed by BRs lack of interest in discovering what is so terribly wrong that morning, as well as his lack of emotion at the funeral. I witnessed the loss of a sibling. The cries of anguish, collectively as a family and individually, I will never forget. They are etched on my mind and heart forever. I do not understand his lack of emotion.

 

[Logic101]

UKGuy,
As you have pointed out in earlier posts BR should not have been aware of the details of JB death since the AR still had not been released.
The only logical explanation I can come up with for BR to be privy to such information is if:

1. He was a witness in the basement
2. He was a contributor

Surely, (One would hope) his folks would want to spare BR from the gruesome details.

It is quite obvious from that video of his interview, that Burke is playing a guessing game as to how his sister died. He is all over the board with lot’s of different things! <modsnip>

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
As you have pointed out in earlier posts BR should not have been aware of the details of JB death since the AR still had not been released.
The only logical explanation I can come up with for BR to be privy to such information is if:

1. He was a witness in the basement
2. He was a contributor

Surely, (One would hope) his folks would want to spare BR from the gruesome details.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, according to the parents and Burke's version of events he should know next to nothing about JonBenet's injuries.

Yet he talks about a knife and JonBenet being whacked on the head, a detail not known until Coroner Meyer took a closer look at JonBenet's skull at the autopsy, revealing it was seriously fractured.

It's entirely possible what Burke tells Doug Stine is just hearsay and related for affect? My money is on his parents telling him what to say, e.g. the wise monkey routine:

Hear no Evil, See No Evil, Do No Evil.

So as the parents said Burk slept through it all until he was awakened by a flashlight in his room, then nobody told or spoke to Burke regarding the details of JonBenet's death, and as others have noticed, Burke when given the opportunity did not seem that interested either?

So your sister vanishes overnight and you do not ask any questions, weird!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

It is quite obvious from that video of his interview, that Burke is playing a guessing game as to how his sister died. He is all over the board with lot’s of different things! <modsnip>

Wow, for nine years old he sure plays a good guessing game! Wonder why he says, “I know what happened”, then lays it out for Dr. Bernard.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, according to the parents and Burke's version of events he should know next to nothing about JonBenet's injuries.

Yet he talks about a knife and JonBenet being whacked on the head, a detail not known until Coroner Meyer took a closer look at JonBenet's skull at the autopsy, revealing it was seriously fractured.

It's entirely possible what Burke tells Doug Stine is just hearsay and related for affect? My money is on his parents telling him what to say, e.g. the wise monkey routine:

Hear no Evil, See No Evil, Do No Evil.

So as the parents said Burk slept through it all until he was awakened by a flashlight in his room, then nobody told or spoke to Burke regarding the details of JonBenet's death, and as others have noticed, Burke when given the opportunity did not seem that interested either?

So your sister vanishes overnight and you do not ask any questions, weird!

UKGuy,
Odd indeed! Just moving on with my life he states. This is a traumatic event. Other children in Boulder @ the time were afraid, but not Burke. Brave indeed considering his sister was murdered two floors beneath where he slept.

 

[Logic101]

Wow, for nine years old he sure plays a good guessing game! Wonder why he says, “I know what happened”, then lays it out for Dr. Bernard.

Please tell us what part a knife played in JonBenet’s death because she certainly was not killed by one. Again, Burke kept guessing until he got one thing partially correct!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Please tell us what part a knife played in JonBenet’s death because she certainly was not killed by one. Again, Burke kept guessing until he got one thing partially correct!

I do not hear BR guessing. He merely states. He states he knows what happened.

DOI Page 321
BR knife (which had been hidden in the cabinet with the diapers in the 2nd floor laundry by LHP) was found on the countertop near a sink, just a short distance from where JonBenet's body was found. The implication was that the killer could have used the knife to cut the nylon cord used to tie JonBenet's wrists together. The cord was also used to make the garrote placed around her neck, which ultimately resulted in her death by strangulation.

Let’s not forget BR was known to whittle and that was the reason the knife was taken from him by LHP and hidden in the first place. Perhaps (big word for you) he whittled the paintbrush to help it snap into three separate pieces.

How could he have possibly known she was hit over the head unless he was in the basement or he was involved.