Lies point us to the truth

[Rain on my Parade]

IMO the blow to the head was part of the staging, which was meant to distract from the SA, which looms predominately over the murder. In its function as a catalyst of subsequent events, the RN is a main prop of the domestic theatrics. The RN makes it clear that the FF's main motive is money. There are no pedophile motives apparent in the RN. There seems a peculiar gap in the underdeveloped narrative thread between the RN and the WC. Just how and why did the greedy S.B.T.C of the FF wind up with JB in the WC; and do all that was revealed in her autopsy, without any struggle? "Victory!" implies that the RN was completed in the house at sometime before the murder. But still, it was left behind meaninglessly on the spiral staircase, after JB was dead, as a hand written, self-incriminating oversight?

Anyway, PR, in an understandable state of shock, never managed to get a handle on the dramatic voice of the supposed kidnapper(s), and was even uncertain as to whom to address the RN. The person(s) doing the staging and restaging in the basement, and elsewhere, may not have been keeping up with all that the author upstairs was concocting in the RN? How many practice RNs? There is no reason to assume that whatever the Rs were doing for hours all over their vast house was well coordinated. It must have been utter chaos. How aware was anyone about what they actually were doing, under not only the stress of the sudden violent death, but also, the pressure of the clock, as the scheduled time for the flight to MI was approaching, which in turn was one reason why the ill-conceived RN had to be written.

Without doubt, I am in the minority in leaning towards the strangling preceding the blow to the head. The garotte was connected to the SA, which suddenly went Code Red. The blow to the head meant to make it seem that a wild maniac was on the loose? Or to mean that the killing took place due to some error in an attempted kidnapping? The pink nightgown may have been meant as an element in the kidnap story line, that was abandoned? The blood on it may have made it seem a useful prop that linked up with the blood found on JB's pillow?

proust20,
Do you have an opinion as to who committed the SA? If so, who please and why?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Once the BPD start leaking the evidence files so they can all supplement their pensions, folks will realize that there is more, much more to the case than everyone assumed!

UKGuy,
It is statements like this that make me wonder where you get your information from. You know, but aren’t telling?

 

[proust20]

The significance of the possibly discovered Swiss Army knife of BR's is that it connects to that which he said about what he knew to Dr. Bernhard, i.e., - Someone took her quietly down the stairs. - They had a knife. Also, there is the view that the paintbrush shows signs of whittling; but, I do not know if any shavings were found in the basement.

 

[proust20]

Rain on my Parade,

The SA of a child is most often at the hands of family or care givers. A child who is found murdered in their own home is overwhelmingly the victim of family or caregivers. In a homicide case, the person who 'discovers' the body is usually the killer. Given all this, there is only one person who checks off on each category. Of course, statistics do not always reveal the unique, and the JBR case is certainly unique.

Who possibly would benefit most likely from JB's death if it were motivated by SA? Who evinces a cool, detached mien all through the on-going circus? On the other hand, a devastated PR required heavy sedation on CNN, which also was a way of being able to disregard whatever she may have said, if need be. PR sadly was living or reliving her life through JB. The Miss America title had become a tangible goal that she'd not be willing to jettison over bed-wetting or a turtleneck IMO.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The significance of the possibly discovered Swiss Army knife of BR's is that it connects to that which he said about what he knew to Dr. Bernhard, i.e., - Someone took her quietly down the stairs. - They had a knife. Also, there is the view that the paintbrush shows signs of whittling; but, I do not know if any shavings were found in the basement.

proust20,
Yes, he knew about the knife. BR knew way to much about the crime not not have been present.
Yes, shavings were found:

2000-04-11: “JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation”
by Steve Thomas and Don Davis, April 11, 2000

ST Page 37

"In the far corner of the basement, just outside the small room where the body had lain, Detective Mike Everett discovered a half-dozen oil paintings on canvas and an artist's plastic tote box belonging to Patsy. In the tote was a broken brush splotched by paint. Splinters were on the floor beside the tote. It was a major find because the broken brush matched the fractured end of the multicolored stick used in the garrote. The detectives had found the source of part of the murder weapon and where it had been broken."

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

The SA of a child is most often at the hands of family or care givers. A child who is found murdered in their own home is overwhelmingly the victim of family or caregivers. In a homicide case, the person who 'discovers' the body is usually the killer. Given all this, there is only one person who checks off on each category. Of course, statistics do not always reveal the unique, and the JBR case is certainly unique.

Who possibly would benefit most likely from JB's death if it were motivated by SA? Who evinces a cool, detached mien all through the on-going circus? On the other hand, a devastated PR required heavy sedation on CNN, which also was a way of being able to disregard whatever she may have said, if need be. PR sadly was living or reliving her life through JB. The Miss America title had become a tangible goal that she'd not be willing to jettison over bed-wetting or a turtleneck IMO.

proust20,
Taken from the Bonita papers PR would do anything to please her mother. It was her @ her mother’s directive.
Taken from the Bonita papers:
In spite of this desire for social status and wealth, to all who knew her, Patsy's fundamental religious convictions and sense of family value were her most deep set characteristics. Her loyalties to her mother ran strong. Even though many considered her mother, Nedra, not a likable person and often bizarre, unless you were willing to accept Patsy's mother as part of the friendship you would not be befriended by Patsy. It is my understanding that it was NP that started JB’s pageants while PR was sick.

2000-02-00: "Afternoon with Judith Phillips, Photographer", Interviewed by Mary Mcardle Suma (Mame)
Transcript provided by Starry assisted by Sassey, Canadiana & Shaggy

Mame: Tell me how you found out? Did she tell you or did you hear it.

Judith Phillips: It was done in an indirect way I don't think that was something that Patsy would disclose publicly to me because she knew me well enough to know, that would be something that I would not approve of so why mention it to me. But when I went to her home to sell her some photographs. They were having the open house for the Christmas Tour of Homes [1994] she looked at some of my slides of the Flatiron sand other pictures. She was interested in buying some so I went there with some of these photographs ready for her to see. I went up to the second floor and Nedra showed me JonBenét's little pink cowboy outfit

Mame: And was that your first?

Judith Phillips: That was my first clue.

Mame: That is the cowboy outfit that we have all seen?

Judith Phillips: Right,right ,right

Mame: were you

Judith Phillips: I was shocked, I said what's that for? Nedra said why Judith were getting JonBenét in some oh just a few pageants. I said your kidding.! She said oh yea she's done some already. In Charlesvoix Were just going do a few. That's when I ask the million dollar question to Nedra. What would happen to JonBenét. You know I was in a position, that it was none of my business to tell them oh my god this is horrible. I was not, it was there home I was not in the position they didn't ask me how I felt about it so I had to say it in an indirect way. That's why I came up with a question. How would you feel if JonBenét at one moment would say I ain't doing this anymore. I'm not going do this.

Mame: And you thought of that then right there at the beginning.

Judith Phillips: Yea

Mame: what did Nedra say?

Judith Phillips: It was a way to get to ask a question that was not out of line but it had the same answer. Yea

Mame: So Nedra's answer was?

Judith Phillips: Oh Judith don't worry about it this is how we would respond to JonBenét and I would say what ould you say to her JonBenét you will do it!

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

The blood on it may have made it seem a useful prop that linked up with the blood found on JB's pillow?

There was no blood on JonBenet's pillow.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Then I insist you also note that the injury occurred in the
Occipital Lobe and that I’ve worn glasses since I was in the fourth grade. Also please note, that I have tested in the top 1 percentile in logistics.



Are you privy to all CSI reports in this case?



I would work the one person out that is not tied to the kitchen/dining room CS evidence. PR wrote the note. BR states he used the flashlight to go back downstairs that night (to knock out his toy). Work the case out from there.

Rain on my Parade,

Then I insist you also note that the injury occurred in the
Occipital Lobe and that I’ve worn glasses since I was in the fourth grade. Also please note, that I have tested in the top 1 percentile in logistics.

With your permission I certainly will, it's a subtle aspect missed by many posters! Your posts manifestly demonstrate your skill in logistics.

Are you privy to all CSI reports in this case?

No, I wish I was. Access to them are really needed in writing any account of the JonBenet case. This can be seen in that most of the more topical books are all by ex-investigators, who can access the reports or know someone who has read them.

I would work the one person out that is not tied to the kitchen/dining room CS evidence.

Yes, there are biological timelines that cannot vary regardless of the given account, you can use this aspect to filter the offered version of events for credibility.

This is why I reckon Steve Thomas' PDI Bedwetting theory cannot fly.

BR states he used the flashlight to go back downstairs that night (to knock out his toy).

Not quite, he invokes ramnesia at this point.

Dr Phil Interview with Burke Ramsey, episode 2, excerpt

Dr Phil: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?

Burke: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

Dr Phil: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

Burke: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

Dr Phil: Did you hit your sister over the head with a baseball bat of a flashlight?

Burke:Absolutely not.

So Burke is just downstairs. Whereas Dr Phil quotes JR as using the flashlight to put Burke to bed, which is a curious interjection into the Ramsey version of events.

So the question here is who is being linked to the flashlight, Burke, John, or both? In any court case John would be asked on the stand if he brought the flashlight back downstairs?

So to cut through all the options: Burke and JonBenet could have gone down to the basement from the breakfast bar using the flashlight.

This might explain why the parents ignored the kitchen area in it's entirety, and why John wants to tell Dr. Phil he used it to put Burke to bed, i.e. to sever any links to Burke?

.

 

[proust20]

All the self-conscious contradictions and perpetual variations of events related by the Rs over the many years are meant to confuse and distract. In this regard, it is another aspect of the staging. (Hey look - over there - over here.) This serves a similar function as Ramnesia.

With so much open discussion of the flashlight, it is but reflexive to be suspect of its importance in the murder itself. That the batteries notoriously were devoid of finger prints marks it as a prop in the staging in my view. It could have been meant to suggest IDI. Perhaps this is still the implication? The Rs at first disowned the flashlight, an early instance of Ramnesia.

 

[UKGuy]

All the self-conscious contradictions and perpetual variations of events related by the Rs over the many years are meant to confuse and distract. In this regard, it is another aspect of the staging. (Hey look - over there - over here.) This serves a similar function as Ramnesia.

With so much open discussion of the flashlight, it is but reflexive to be suspect of its importance in the murder itself. That the batteries notoriously were devoid of finger prints marks it as a prop in the staging in my view. It could have been meant to suggest IDI. Perhaps this is still the implication? The Rs at first disowned the flashlight, an early instance of Ramnesia.

proust20,
Yup, it's all smoke and mirrors with the Ramsey's. Ramnesia is invoked when it might incriminate one them, so you can tell what matters?

That the batteries notoriously were devoid of finger prints marks it as a prop in the staging in my view.

You could be correct but how would the Intruder know where to find the flashlight?

Essentially there was no need to use the flashlight on the night JonBenet was killed. There were bedside lamps in her bedroom, and ceiling lighting downstairs.

Looks like the parents used the flashlight in the course of their staging, possibly changing the batteries at some point?

So returning it to the kitchen area, fingerprints or not, it does belong to them, might simply suggest they knew they could not be linked with it?

Without foreign fingerprints or dna present they will have known it's staging value at most would be diversionary?

So the interesting question remains: why would JR claim to use the flashlight to put Burke to bed, long after years of collective ramnesia precisely on this subject?

.

 

[proust20]

If JR (or BR) admits to handling the flashlight Christmas night, the fact that it was found later to have no fingerprints on it directly implies that someone else must have wiped it down after he had handled it. Although, only the Rs would have the need also to wipe down the batteries in their failed attempt to distance themselves from it.

The Rs are the originators of IDI. Accordingly, the intruder(s) gained access to the house while the family was at the Whites' party. During that time, they scoped the layout, found the notepad and Sharpie to write the RN, poked around and found the flashlight, which would be useful to prowl in the dark and go up to JB's room. (Much of this concept is being drawn from film experiences.) The Rs must sleep through all events; so, no disturbing lights ought to go on. Interestingly, the WC has no windows through which any light could be seen.

Then, as well, the planted flashlight could serve as a possible object used to bash JB, and serving a dual function as a prop in the R's IDI scenario. However, there's no tissue on it, rendering it ambiguous, as was intended. JB's pillow found near the flashlight is a directive to link her bedroom to how the flashlight was used to aid in her 'abduction down the stairs' narrative?

 

[UKGuy]

If JR (or BR) admits to handling the flashlight Christmas night, the fact that it was found later to have no fingerprints on it directly implies that someone else must have wiped it down after he had handled it. Although, only the Rs would have the need also to wipe down the batteries in their failed attempt to distance themselves from it.

The Rs are the originators of IDI. Accordingly, the intruder(s) gained access to the house while the family was at the Whites' party. During that time, they scoped the layout, found the notepad and Sharpie to write the RN, poked around and found the flashlight, which would be useful to prowl in the dark and go up to JB's room. (Much of this concept is being drawn from film experiences.) The Rs must sleep through all events; so, no disturbing lights ought to go on. Interestingly, the WC has no windows through which any light could be seen.

Then, as well, the planted flashlight could serve as a possible object used to bash JB, and serving a dual function as a prop in the R's IDI scenario. However, there's no tissue on it, rendering it ambiguous, as was intended. JB's pillow found near the flashlight is a directive to link her bedroom to how the flashlight was used to aid in her 'abduction down the stairs' narrative?

proust20,

If JR (or BR) admits to handling the flashlight Christmas night, the fact that it was found later to have no fingerprints on it directly implies that someone else must have wiped it down after he had handled it. Although, only the Rs would have the need also to wipe down the batteries in their failed attempt to distance themselves from it.

Only John states he handled the flashlight Christmas night, Burke invokes ramnesia.

The Rs are the originators of IDI.

No, this was a theory put forward by Lou Smit complete with a basement window entrance demonstration.

Prior to this the Ramsey's indicated close friends and employee's, e.g. Fleet White, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, etc might be suspects?

Prior access is not supported by any forensic evidence, other than the claimed foreign dna in the underwear.

Then, as well, the planted flashlight could serve as a possible object used to bash JB, and serving a dual function as a prop in the R's IDI scenario.

What is the percentage to signaling a murder weapon as such and using it as an object of staging?

However, there's no tissue on it, rendering it ambiguous, as was intended. JB's pillow found near the flashlight is a directive to link her bedroom to how the flashlight was used to aid in her 'abduction down the stairs' narrative?

How does the intruder use the flashlight to aid in her 'abduction down the stairs' and carry JonBenet down the stairs, how does that fly?

There is no need for the Ramsey's to wipe the batteries, as it belongs to them. No fingerprints might just be circumstantial artifact, a consequence of how they were inserted?

Burke Ramsey would need to remember using the flashlight if BPD has forensic evidence suggesting such, whereas John Ramsey states he used the flashlight to put Burke to bed. So it could be BPD can somehow link John to the flashlight?

Put another way a millionare father does not need to use a flashlight to put his son to bed, this is what ceiling lights are for.

I do not find John Ramsey's account convincing at all, it sounds like a version of events being extended to add more smoke and mirrors?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

With your permission I certainly will, it's a subtle aspect missed by many posters! Your posts manifestly demonstrate your skill in logistics.

Thank you UKGuy.

Not quite, he invokes ramnesia at this point.

Dr Phil Interview with Burke Ramsey, episode 2, excerpt

It is obviously ramnesia, as BR originally stated that his dad put him to bed with the flashlight and he then used
it to go downstairs after everybody else was in bed to knock out the toy. Then 20 some odd years later JR states that he used the flashlight.

So Burke is just downstairs. Whereas Dr Phil quotes JR as using the flashlight to put Burke to bed, which is a curious interjection into the Ramsey version of events.

So the question here is who is being linked to the flashlight, Burke, John, or both? In any court case John would be asked on the stand if he brought the flashlight back downstairs?

So to cut through all the options: Burke and JonBenet could have gone down to the basement from the breakfast bar using the flashlight.

This might explain why the parents ignored the kitchen area in it's entirety, and why John wants to tell Dr. Phil he used it to put Burke to bed, i.e. to sever any links to Burke?

Curious indeed. Why not simply put the flashlight back in the drawer that was left partially opened. Why leave the flashlight on the kitchen counter with the batteries wiped clean of prints? Perhaps, to lead direction away from the golf clubs that JR so desperately needed after the death of his daughter?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The Rs are the originators of IDI.

No, this was a theory put forward by Lou Smit complete with a basement window entrance demonstration.

I believe the IDI theory started with the RN.

Prior access is not supported by any forensic evidence, other than the claimed foreign dna in the underwear.

On this podcast:

They mention here that @ JB school they kept a box of underwear for kids should they have an accident. So, the foreign DNA could have possibly came from this.
I had previously stated the name was Cynthia but it is Carol; my mistake.

There is no need for the Ramsey's to wipe the batteries, as it belongs to them. No fingerprints might just be circumstantial artifact, a consequence of how they were inserted?

What would make sense in this aspect (had they not been wiped clean) is if the person inserting the batteries wore gloves. PR obviously did so writing the RN as only her partial palm print was on it. JR stated he read it but his fingerprints aren’t on it either?

I do not find John Ramsey's account convincing at all, it sounds like a version of events being extended to add more smoke and mirrors?

It has to be, as I posted earlier BR originally stated he used it to go downstairs to knock out his toy.

 

[proust20]

FF was an intruder. IDI was inevitable conclusion to draw from RN.

JB did not have to be carried down the stairs in the dark. Someone could have held the flashlight in one hand, and led her down with the other? But, there is no need for me to elaborate foolishly any far-fetched scenario fabricated by the Rs, However, the flashlight is one of the few items of the staging that hint at IDI and a kidnapping.

At first, the Rs did not recognize the flashlight as belonging to them. If the batteries had their fingerprints, denying ownership should be impossible.

 

[proust20]

double post

 

[UKGuy]

Thank you UKGuy.




It is obviously ramnesia, as BR originally stated that his dad put him to bed with the flashlight and he then used
it to go downstairs after everybody else was in bed to knock out the toy. Then 20 some odd years later JR states that he used the flashlight.



Curious indeed. Why not simply put the flashlight back in the drawer that was left partially opened. Why leave the flashlight on the kitchen counter with the batteries wiped clean of prints? Perhaps, to lead direction away from the golf clubs that JR so desperately needed after the death of his daughter?

Rain on my Parade,

It is obviously ramnesia, as BR originally stated that his dad put him to bed with the flashlight and he then used it to go downstairs after everybody else was in bed to knock out the toy. Then 20 some odd years later JR states that he used the flashlight.

BBM: Burke does not admit to using the flashlight, he tells Dr. Phil:

Dr Phil: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

Burke: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

No member of the Ramsey household needed a flashlight to go about their business.

John saying he used the flashlight to put Burke to bed is new information, he inserted it into the Ramsey's version of events.

Neither John nor Burke said anything about returning the flashlight back downstairs.

Unless we know the flashlight is the murder weapon speculation might mean we are dancing to Ramsey tune?

.

 

[UKGuy]

FF was an intruder. IDI was inevitable conclusion to draw from RN.

JB did not have to be carried down the stairs in the dark. Someone could have held the flashlight in one hand, and led her down with the other? But, there is no need for me to elaborate foolishly any far-fetched scenario fabricated by the Rs, However, the flashlight is one of the few items of the staging that hint at IDI and a kidnapping.

At first, the Rs did not recognize the flashlight as belonging to them. If the batteries had their fingerprints, denying ownership should be impossible.

proust20,
IMO the kidnapping scenario was introduced to explain why JonBenet had moved from her bedroom to the basement?

The only thing the flashlight hints to me is that it might have been used to navigate the basement?

How can the flashlight represent staging if John Ramsey not only admits ownership but says he used it to put Burke to bed?

IMO it's just more smoke and mirrors from JR.

.

 

[proust20]

It is only recently that JR tells these tales of the flashlight. In '96, he could not say initially if it belonged to the house. It looks rather conspicuous in the CS photos. As far as I know, no one has said that they put it where it was found, without any fingerprints, on the 26th.

Why JR would use the flashlight to put BR to bed is difficult to understand. Maybe he doesn't recall previous versions, or care? It's curious that this item has been brought up anew. A reaction to the CBS doc?

The RN is the only evidence suggestive of a possible kidnapping. While it establishes a motive for the abduction and disappearance, it does not provide one for the murder.

 

[UKGuy]

It is only recently that JR tells these tales of the flashlight. In '96, he could not say initially if it belonged to the house. It looks rather conspicuous in the CS photos. As far as I know, no one has said that they put it where it was found, without any fingerprints, on the 26th.

Why JR would use the flashlight to put BR to bed is difficult to understand. Maybe he doesn't recall previous versions, or care? It's curious that this item has been brought up anew. A reaction to the CBS doc?

The RN is the only evidence suggestive of a possible kidnapping. While it establishes a motive for the abduction and disappearance, it does not provide one for the murder.

proust20,

Why JR would use the flashlight to put BR to bed is difficult to understand. Maybe he doesn't recall previous versions, or care? It's curious that this item has been brought up anew. A reaction to the CBS doc?

BBM: Yes, it is likely that the flashlight is unexplained, e.g. nobody wants to own it? So with the CBS Doc' highlighting the flashlight as the murder weapon it might be JR was motivated to inject the flashlight into the Ramsey Version of Events with in extremis JR taking responsibility for relocating the flashlight, by doing so he intends to head off any accusations regarding Burke?

Once JR leaves us Burke is liberty to say Oh my father put it there!, who can say otherwise?

The RN is the only evidence suggestive of a possible kidnapping. While it establishes a motive for the abduction and disappearance, it does not provide one for the murder.

Sure the RN is just a cover for moving JonBenet under the guise of abduction, while the real agenda is staging a homicide, e.g. all the stuff in the wine-cellar.

.