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I agree, but it is possible it arrived via cross-transfer, so no firm conclusions can be derived, other than his dna links him to crime-scene, as does Patsy's.

UKGuy,
What is the likelihood BR dna is going to be on the top & bottom, inside and outside via cross-transfer of the nightgown?

Prior to the nightgown JonBenet could have been wearing her pink pajama top, seen on her bed in the crime-scene photos:

And then wet the bed, so she was changed into the nightgown?

This leaves out Burke Ramsey's bike and possibly the Lego Set?

Could be Burke's bedroom with JonBenet's bedroom used as the first staging location?

Just think about those Coke cans left in Burke's sink.

BR had his friends over Christmas Day. Those coke cans could have belonged to them. I doubt PR was going to pick them up any more then the soiled pj bottoms left in JB bathroom.
Just out of curiosity, do you base your stead fast idea that the soiled pajamas bottoms (thought to be to big for JB; said to be found on her bedroom floor) solely on FF?

Minimally JR was staging BR out of the case, by attempting to cleanup JonBenet, could be JR caused the blood spatter?

I'm assuming JonBenet is already redressed in the size-12's and longjohns by the time JR decides to wipe her down?

Where did those dark fibers come from all over her shirt?

Maybe, it was an Israeli manufactured shirt, a nice expensive job, to suit JR's self-image.

Maybe JAR wanted the same one for the same reason?
 
UKGuy,
What is the likelihood BR dna is going to be on the top & bottom, inside and outside via cross-transfer of the nightgown?



And then wet the bed, so she was changed into the nightgown?



BR had his friends over Christmas Day. Those coke cans could have belonged to them. I doubt PR was going to pick them up any more then the soiled pj bottoms left in JB bathroom.
Just out of curiosity, do you base your stead fast idea that the soiled pajamas bottoms (thought to be to big for JB; said to be found on her bedroom floor) solely on FF?



Where did those dark fibers come from all over her shirt?



Maybe JAR wanted the same one for the same reason?


Rain on my Parade,
What is the likelihood BR dna is going to be on the top & bottom, inside and outside via cross-transfer of the nightgown?
It might be high, it might be low, even with the washing machine as a source for the nightgown it does not reduce to zero.

More relevant is that the nightgown should not be in the wine-cellar.

And then wet the bed, so she was changed into the nightgown?
Possibly.

Just out of curiosity, do you base your stead fast idea that the soiled pajamas bottoms (thought to be to big for JB; said to be found on her bedroom floor) solely on FF?
Not entirely. I assume the observation of the soiled pajama bottoms is independent of James Kolar's speculation. Kolar cited a CSI report in his book as his source, which will have been signed off and entered into the documentary evidence.

Another witness to JonBenet's bedroom was Holly Smith, she was head of the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team and had been called into the investigation on the third day.

She found something else in the room, however, which raised an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material.

One poignant find that she does recall was a red satin box with what looked like JonBenet’s secret stash of candy.

Holly Smith deliberately left out any reference to the Red Satin Box being fecally smeared, which must suggest it is forensically important, i.e. a cross-reference between the satin box and the pajama bottoms on the basis of a dna test?

Also Holly Smith may have read the CSI report and also observed the fecally soiled pajama bottoms on the bedroom floor, possibly prompting her to check JonBenet's underwear?

Holly Smith was removed from the case, and had all the material relating to the Ramsey's redacted from her autobiography, effectively silencing her.

Where did those dark fibers come from all over her shirt?
Presumaby JR's woolen shirt, he did say he carried her to bed?

Maybe JAR wanted the same one for the same reason?
Could be, the important aspect of JR's black shirt is that it was woolen and manufactured in Israel. This made it easy to distinguish from USA manufactured woolen shirts. So any claim by BPD regarding the shirts fibers being found on JonBenet's groin region impacted on JR's claim of being asleep?

From the evidence it's possible that rather than a bedwetting incident taking place, defecation was the order of the day?

Consider there was a pair of JonBenet's pants containing fecally soiled underwear left lying on her bathroom floor.

This might represent childhood immaturity, lazyness, whatever or something more important forensically? i.e. match it with the soiled pajamas bottoms?

If you follow the case you will notice a slow drip feed of previously sealed evidence, so I expect the CSI report that Kolar cited to be leaked eventually, probably as a prelude to a documentary headlining a new theory?

.
 
It might be high, it might be low, even with the washing machine as a source for the nightgown it does not reduce to zero.

More relevant is that the nightgown should not be in the wine-cellar.

UKGuy,

Well, since there is BR possible fecal material found in JB bedroom .. the likelihood of him bothering to wash his hands is zero to none. I further will venture to bet there is more of his dna found; then has been made public. Heaven forbade the public know these details! Since apparently JR has enough power to stop damn near everyone (including Holly Smith) and the fact that the family all took part in JB’s murder; then the simple matter of dna is also locked up real tight. 1996 to present= no change in this case!
Well, they did get exonerated; there’s that.

Presumaby JR's woolen shirt, he did say he carried her to bed?

Yet, his leather jacket lined with animal fur is found on the chair at the breakfast bar the next morning. So, he had on his jacket, carried her up the spiral staircase (?) put her to bed, then went back downstairs; depositing his coat where is it found the next day. Speculation on my part so I know you will object. That’s okay.

Could be, the important aspect of JR's black shirt is that it was woolen and manufactured in Israel. This made it easy to distinguish from USA manufactured woolen shirts. So any claim by BPD regarding the shirts fibers being found on JonBenet's groin region impacted on JR's claim of being asleep?

Unless, he wiped her at the White’s house.

From the evidence it's possible that rather than a bedwetting incident taking place, defecation was the order of the day?

Yet, it is said that the sheets reeked of urine. Possibly not washed but thrown in the dryer. Yank out a diaper to wipe the plastic sheet? Find BR Swiss Army knife left there by LHP? Could have been dirty games gone bad. Speculation;objection. That’s still okay.

If you follow the case you will notice a slow drip feed of previously sealed evidence, so I expect the CSI report that Kolar cited to be leaked eventually, probably as a prelude to a documentary headlining a new theory

Where do you suggest I go to follow this case? To find the slow drip of previously sealed evidence? I think a lot can be obtained by their mere reactions via interviews. What was the last sealed evidence release anyway? Was it the touch dna results?

Why do you expect the CSI report to be eventually leaked?
 
UKGuy,

Well, since there is BR possible fecal material found in JB bedroom .. the likelihood of him bothering to wash his hands is zero to none. I further will venture to bet there is more of his dna found; then has been made public. Heaven forbade the public know these details! Since apparently JR has enough power to stop damn near everyone (including Holly Smith) and the fact that the family all took part in JB’s murder; then the simple matter of dna is also locked up real tight. 1996 to present= no change in this case!
Well, they did get exonerated; there’s that.



Yet, his leather jacket lined with animal fur is found on the chair at the breakfast bar the next morning. So, he had on his jacket, carried her up the spiral staircase (?) put her to bed, then went back downstairs; depositing his coat where is it found the next day. Speculation on my part so I know you will object. That’s okay.



Unless, he wiped her at the White’s house.



Yet, it is said that the sheets reeked of urine. Possibly not washed but thrown in the dryer. Yank out a diaper to wipe the plastic sheet? Find BR Swiss Army knife left there by LHP? Could have been dirty games gone bad. Speculation;objection. That’s still okay.



Where do you suggest I go to follow this case? To find the slow drip of previously sealed evidence? I think a lot can be obtained by their mere reactions via interviews. What was the last sealed evidence release anyway? Was it the touch dna results?

Why do you expect the CSI report to be eventually leaked?

Rain on my Parade,
Well, since there is BR possible fecal material found in JB bedroom .. the likelihood of him bothering to wash his hands is zero to none. I further will venture to bet there is more of his dna found; then has been made public. Heaven forbade the public know these details! Since apparently JR has enough power to stop damn near everyone (including Holly Smith) and the fact that the family all took part in JB’s murder; then the simple matter of dna is also locked up real tight. 1996 to present= no change in this case!
Well, they did get exonerated; there’s that.
Yes, Hunter, JR, et al tried to close the case down by shouting exoneration, it didn't work.
All the results from the dna tests have not been made public, i.e. the locations where Ramsey dna was found on JonBenet's body or clothing.

IMO Holly Smith was one of the few people to call it a sexual abuse case, she outlined this in her autobiography but had references to evidence and the Ramseys redacted. I reckon she knows what part the fecal smearing played in the case and who was involved, for her pains she was removed from the case.

Yet, his leather jacket lined with animal fur is found on the chair at the breakfast bar the next morning.
That's another Ramsey gotcha as he never said he was in the breakfast bar.

Yet, it is said that the sheets reeked of urine. Possibly not washed but thrown in the dryer. Yank out a diaper to wipe the plastic sheet? Find BR Swiss Army knife left there by LHP? Could have been dirty games gone bad. Speculation;objection. That’s still okay.
There was nothing to prevent Patsy from using the washing machine to cleanse the forensic evidence from the crime-scene, she had hours to accomplish this.

BR's Swiss Army knife is a crime-scene mystery.


Where do you suggest I go to follow this case? To find the slow drip of previously sealed evidence?
Websleuths of course.

Why do you expect the CSI report to be eventually leaked?
Because Kolar released the smeared candy box fact along with the info on the fecally soiled pajamas, someone will just decide to publish the CSI report.

Another aspect is BR's therapy records, if this was mandated under Colorado State statute then these, even if only in summary report form, will be out there somewhere and the person(s) assisting BR will minimally know if he was motivated by fecal concerns?

So all will be revealed one day.

.
 
Didn’t BR testify in front of the GJ that he was awake the morning of (I don’t remember if he told them he was indeed on the 911 call) but told Dr P he was sound asleep. And also told dr p you jay it was his mother who came rushing into the room to check on him. But we all know that the series of events that morning did not happen. The ransom note wasn’t left on the steps, br wasn’t asleep. It was all for show and how to explain it to the police (their waking up and the events that took place that morning) and the beginning of the 911 call when PR says “hon we need” I think she was talking to BR, like hon we need a minute here to place this call
 
Didn’t BR testify in front of the GJ that he was awake the morning of (I don’t remember if he told them he was indeed on the 911 call) but told Dr P he was sound asleep. And also told dr p you jay it was his mother who came rushing into the room to check on him. But we all know that the series of events that morning did not happen. The ransom note wasn’t left on the steps, br wasn’t asleep. It was all for show and how to explain it to the police (their waking up and the events that took place that morning) and the beginning of the 911 call when PR says “hon we need” I think she was talking to BR, like hon we need a minute here to place this call

elannia,
Dateline NBC "Who Killed JonBenet"
"The Grand Jury started hearing evidence in the fall of 1998. They heard testimony from Boulder Police and Lou Smit. Burke Ramsey also testified. According to police documents, he listened to the 911 call. And although he would not admit that he was in the kitchen when his mother made the 911 call, he told the jurors that it sounded like his voice on the tape."
You cannot beat the horse's mouth.

And there is this:
THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER
April 3, 2001

RAMSEYS CHANGE THEIR STORY ABOUT MURDER NIGHT

By David Wright & Don Gentile

"John and Patsy Ramsey have changed the story they told cops about their daughter JonBenet's murder -- they now admit their son Burke was awake during that Christmas 1996 nightmare!

In an exclusive ENQUIRER interview, the nation's most infamous murder suspects say Burke was jolted awake by screams in their Boulder, Colo. home.

"Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.

"Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."

Until being questioned by The ENQUIRER, the Ramseys had always insisted that Burke was still sleeping when police arrived at their home after Patsy's 911 call.

But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.

So it's all staging from beginning to end. Yet millions of people believe what the Ramsey's said and think an intruder killed JonBenet.

.
 
Thanks UKGuy, everything the R’s said happened that morning was all lies, the note wasn’t on the steps, they didn’t rush to BR’s room, JR wasn’t in his underwear, it was all planned out so they could have something to explain what “happened”. And then couldn’t keep their stories straight
 
Thanks UKGuy, everything the R’s said happened that morning was all lies, the note wasn’t on the steps, they didn’t rush to BR’s room, JR wasn’t in his underwear, it was all planned out so they could have something to explain what “happened”. And then couldn’t keep their stories straight

elannia,
Sure, they could not agree on their story about the Partially Unwrapped Christmas Gifts. Which suggests their account regarding gifts located in the wine-cellar might also be fabricated?

Why, because LHP the housekeeper never reported seeing any gifts in the wine-cellar when Patsy asked her and family to move the Christmas decorations from the wine-cellar to upstairs.

That's multiple witnesses who missed the Lego Set, etc.

I've been trying to tell folks for years it's all staging, but they want to believe the Ramsey account.

.
 
elannia,
Sure, they could not agree on their story about the Partially Unwrapped Christmas Gifts. Which suggests their account regarding gifts located in the wine-cellar might also be fabricated?

Why, because LHP the housekeeper never reported seeing any gifts in the wine-cellar when Patsy asked her and family to move the Christmas decorations from the wine-cellar to upstairs.

That's multiple witnesses who missed the Lego Set, etc.

I've been trying to tell folks for years it's all staging, but they want to believe the Ramsey account.

.

UKGuy,
The lego set may have been place there to explain away evidence linking BR to the wine cellar i.e. his knife, his dna, the hi-tec boot print or perhaps something we are not aware of.

PR and JB took a trip to NYC in November with Nedra and Pam. They went to Atlanta for Thanksgiving and that is when LHP and family put up the trees from the wine cellar. If PR hid BR bday present in the wine cellar she would have left them before her trip (Atlanta) you would think. So, it makes since that LHP stated there weren’t any gifts in there when they moved the trees upstairs.

I believe the wine cellar was the dump site for most items. I recall seeing a picture from long ago that showed the urine stain on the carpet and it appeared to me as though JB body was drug into the cellar, smearing the urine up and into the doorway entrance of the cellar.
 
UKGuy,
The lego set may have been place there to explain away evidence linking BR to the wine cellar i.e. his knife, his dna, the hi-tec boot print or perhaps something we are not aware of.

PR and JB took a trip to NYC in November with Nedra and Pam. They went to Atlanta for Thanksgiving and that is when LHP and family put up the trees from the wine cellar. If PR hid BR bday present in the wine cellar she would have left them before her trip (Atlanta) you would think. So, it makes since that LHP stated there weren’t any gifts in there when they moved the trees upstairs.

I believe the wine cellar was the dump site for most items. I recall seeing a picture from long ago that showed the urine stain on the carpet and it appeared to me as though JB body was drug into the cellar, smearing the urine up and into the doorway entrance of the cellar.

Rain on my Parade,
The lego set may have been place there to explain away evidence linking BR to the wine cellar i.e. his knife, his dna, the hi-tec boot print or perhaps something we are not aware of.
I reckon it's there to break any link to an upstairs bedroom. If they knew about a hi-tec footprint they could have just rubbed it out?

Yes the urine-stain suggests JonBenet was asphyxiated right there, probably by Patsy and after being wiped down by JR?

I recko the case is BDI, with the assault taking place upstairs and the staging downstairs in the basement?

And of course everyone zooms in on the basement evidence and generate theory after theory.

.
 
Wasn't she wearing huge panties? That has always confused me. Unless they were put on her to suggest the perp didn't know her size. Where was the unopened package of large panties?
 
Wasn't she wearing huge panties? That has always confused me. Unless they were put on her to suggest the perp didn't know her size. Where was the unopened package of large panties?

anniejanet,
Yes, she was found wearing Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-12 underwear, allegedly purchased by Patsy for her niece Jenny on her New York trip just before Christmas 1996.

Nobody knows where the size-12's were located before they were put on JonBenet or who redressed her?

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt
11 Q. And I will just state a fact
12 here. I mean, there were 15 pair of panties
13 taken out of, by the police, out of
14 JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is
15 that where she kept -
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. -- where you were describing that
18 they were just put in that drawer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?
22 Would that have been about the size pair of
23 panties that she wore when she was six years
24 old?
25 A. I would say more like six to
0094
1 eight. There were probably some in there
2 that were too small.
3 Q. Okay. But not size 12 to 14?
4 A. Not typically, no.
5 MR. KANE: Okay.
6 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And you
7 understand the reason we are asking this, we
8 want to make sure that this intruder did not
9 bring these panties with him, this was
10 something --
11 A. Right.
12 Q. - that was in the house.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And we are clear that, as far as
15 you know, that is something that was in this
16 house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- that belonged to your daughter,
19 these panties?
20 A. Correct.
Patsy admits buying the size-12's as a gift for Jenny but ends up putting them in JonBenet's underwear drawer, but as the above exchange reveals, no size-12's were found in JonBenet's underwear drawer!

A set of Bloomingdale's were allegedly handed into BPD either a year or more after JonBenet's death. There are different versions available with no documentation to back this up.

So this looks like another point where Team Ramsey and BPD appear to collude to bury evidence that raises difficult questions.

In other words the size-12's remain to this day a huge red flag.
 
I haven’t posted in ages, and I’m a little confused about the threads for this case - so not sure this is the best place to ask this but I’ll give it a try.

Is ‘radaronline’ a reliable source? I see a story from yesterday about DNA and this case but I don’t see any discussion here about it? It is not reliable or did no one see it …or…and I just not finding the discussion?
 
I haven’t posted in ages, and I’m a little confused about the threads for this case - so not sure this is the best place to ask this but I’ll give it a try.

Is ‘radaronline’ a reliable source? I see a story from yesterday about DNA and this case but I don’t see any discussion here about it? It is not reliable or did no one see it …or…and I just not finding the discussion?

Missti,
Glenn Meyer was considered a potential intruder into the Ramsey home. Meyer provided DNA samples, handwriting samples, fingerprints, and hair. None of the samples provided linked him to the crime scene and there was no credible motive for him to kill JonBenét.
 
Sorry - I’m not sure why but it is not letting me “quote” - this is about the radaronline story I mentioned above.

The article I read said they were withholding the name of the potential suspect - it doesn’t name Meyer in this article. It sounded to me like someone new.
 
BREAKING NEWS: New DNA Sample In JonBenét Ramsey Case Targets Potential Killer

Is the above link the site and article you are referring to??
It is the only recent (5/7/21) article I can find regarding dna possibly solving this case. I do not know how reliable radaronline is. However, I feel this would be in the headlines everywhere. I also believe JR would be pushing the story in anyway he could IMO.
 
BREAKING NEWS: New DNA Sample In JonBenét Ramsey Case Targets Potential Killer

Is the above link the site and article you are referring to??
It is the only recent (5/7/21) article I can find regarding dna possibly solving this case. I do not know how reliable radaronline is. However, I feel this would be in the headlines everywhere. I also believe JR would be pushing the story in anyway he could IMO.


Yes…this is the one. I wondered why I was not seeing this anywhere else, and didn’t know if this was a reliable story or not. Then came here and didn’t see it either. Something really seems off - it’s probably not valid.
 
It's off ...

Glenn Meyer - Jonbenet Ramsey Wiki

"Police questioned Meyer again and took another blood sample from him. Again nothing was found to link him to the crime."



***
https://mobile.twitter.com/JRamsey_Truth/status/1391031912064380933

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John Andrew Ramsey

@JRamsey_Truth

·
May 8


Ok. Here is what is significant. My Dad continues to talk to anyone at anytime, including Roscoe & Co, in hopes of finding JB’s killer. It is time consuming and mentally exhausting.
Quote Tweet


VSmOj9BE_normal.jpg


MzGags

@MzGags
· May 7
BREAKING NEWS: New DNA Sample In #JonBenétRamsey Case Targets Potential Killer via @radar_online https://radaronline.com/p/jonbenet-ramsey-new-dna-sample-targets-potential-killer/…

4

7

33







John Andrew Ramsey

@JRamsey_Truth

·
May 8


Frankly we have tested DNA from a handful of very promising suspects over the past couple of months. The hunt continues with or without
@boulderpolice
and
@DADoughertyCO
 
Last edited:
I haven’t posted in ages, and I’m a little confused about the threads for this case - so not sure this is the best place to ask this but I’ll give it a try.

Is ‘radaronline’ a reliable source? I see a story from yesterday about DNA and this case but I don’t see any discussion here about it? It is not reliable or did no one see it …or…and I just not finding the discussion?
First of all, anytime you see Roscoe Clark's name on anything, you can completely ignore it. Over the years he's claimed expertise in every area of forensics you can imagine based on “training” he acquired online. Just do a google search for his name with the word “jonbenet.” You'll find numerous articles about some of his different claims. You can also search for his name here on WS and find where his claims have been discounted.

Secondly, just consider the reliability of this “bombshell breakthrough” from his having “traveled to Colorado and obtained the DNA sample from a discarded cigarette after pursing and staking out the male suspect.” Glen Meyer died in July, 2005, so surely Roscoe isn't claiming the validity of a cigarette butt discarded some 16 years ago. It must be from someone else he is now claiming to be part of the group of four who participated in the crime. (At one time he claimed the crime was committed by a mountain climber with MS. Even if an individual gave LE something they said should be tested for a DNA match, and they tested it, and it matched, just how would that chain-of-custody work? How would that hold up in court?

Want to know what others think about Roscoe Clark? Read a few of the comments when someone asked about his “Facebook investigation” on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/epdz0x/what_do_you_guys_think_about_this_theory_by_the/

So why do the tabs print this garbage? Easy – JonBenet's murder still sells readership.

So why does Roscoe keep doing this? Read what RadarOnline writes at the bottom of the article:

“We pay for juicy info! Do you have a story for RadarOnline.com? Email us at tips@radaronline.com, or call us at (866) ON-RADAR (667-2327) any time, day or night.
 
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