Life for the West Memphis Three - Free After the Alford Plea

[Cappuccino]

That's over simplifying it a bit. There are people with Down's Syndrome who have gotten married or had relationships with the opposite sex. Having the mentality of a child doesn't mean they don't have the physical urges of a grown up.

 

[JBounds]

Hmmm mentally old enough to get married but not to kill someone??? I don't get it. I thought he had a mentality of a 8 year old or something?? I think this guy has played everyone! Even in 93 he had girlfriends and was violent. Um sorry but that is not a childs mentality. Shouldn't he playing Lego or something??

Seriously? That's what you think of mentally challenged people that they play with lego's? How nice.

The only one's who got played were them for being specifically targeted, tried, convicted and sentenced with 0 evidence. Not only targeted but specifically picked off of a list by a convict probation officer. Everything was against them from the start.

 

[Cazzie]

Another thing we haven't discussed is that Damien seems pretty charismatic and probably has a HUGE following of women with stars in their eyes. I can see it in his interviews...he's eloquent, educated (mostly self) and well-read, and good-looking.

In one of the Paradise Lost documentaries, they showed a phone call with Damien and a group of the WM3 ssupporters. They apparently had a chat room open for people to submit questions, and Damien answered via phone and someone transcribed his answers into the chat room.

Someone asked him if he had found God while in prison (at this point, he was still incarcerated). Damien immediately answered "I didn't know God was lost!". One of the female supporters smiled in a bedazzled way. She also seemed to be at all of the court proceedings (shown in the documentary) with the support group. I think she has a crush on him!

Lorri, beware!

I'm sure that Jason and Jessie also have a large following of female "crushers". Of course, it's not uncommon for prisoners to meet their spouse while incarcerated, but these 3 are different than the "norm". They are innocent (IMO). So it's not like the infamous cases of murderers on death row getting married.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Jason Baldwin has always been the most compelling of the 3 for me. Bright kid, somewhat shy and reserved, no history of mental illness, no record of violence, convicted on nothing more than the coerced "confession" of Misskelly, the testimony of a jailhouse snitch who claimed Jason told him he did it (in a 2 minute card game!), and a fiber from a housecoat that was similar to a fiber found on one of the victims. Oh, and let's not forget the most compelling evidence of all...he was Damien Echols best friend. Jason was still in school at the time of his arrest. His grades were good. No telling what the future MIGHT have held for him. But that was taken away from him based on nothing. Despite that, I have never once seen Jason Baldwin be anything but the decent, compassionate person he always was. No marked bitterness, no hatred for the people that robbed him of 18 years of his life, nothing but positivity and a quiet air of dignity.

THAT is beyond remarkable, imo.

 

[Melanie]

Hmmm mentally old enough to get married but not to kill someone??? I don't get it. I thought he had a mentality of a 8 year old or something?? I think this guy has played everyone! Even in 93 he had girlfriends and was violent. Um sorry but that is not a childs mentality. Shouldn't he playing Lego or something??

seriously? Would you please link to where it's been confimred that he had the mentality of an 8 year old?

Regards,

Mel

 

[justthinkin]

yes he always has,he recanted each confession quickly.

Source for each, please.

 

[Livvy]

seriously? Would you please link to where it's been confimred that he had the mentality of an 8 year old?

Regards,

Mel

Hmmm I thought that was a big part of this case... That Jessie had a childs mentality and was easily coerced into a confession. I have read oll over online from 5 to 8 years old mentality. I don't think his is as mentally challenged as most supporters think. I will try to find some links on where I read it. Most likely his lawyers. My comment was full of sarcasm and I understand that doesn't come through in written form. My bad. I believe Jessie confessed to the crime because he was there and implicated Damien and Jason when the police gave him the lead. Although the more i read about this Hobbs guy the more I question my theory. I am glad Damien and Jason are given a second chance at life!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Trial testimony from Dr. William Wilkins (1993):

WILKINS: My conclusion was that Jessie reasons on the level of about a, between a six to eight year old. That is what is called a very concrete style of thinking. By concrete I mean is that is an inability to do abstracts, to envision the world in terms of things that I have had concrete experience with. So things are taken and dealt with very literally. Let me give you an example. Another example is that if you have a small child and you tell them, Dont eat any cookies before supper. And you watch, and they go to the cookie jar and get cookies and eat them before supper. And you say to that child, I told you not to get any cookies before supper. And the kid says, I didnt do it. And youre baffled cause you saw them do it. If you question the child for awhile longer hell say to you, I was hungry and got something to eat. And for the child literally, literally, he did not get things when he should not have done so. He got something to eat because he was hungry. It is that very literal, absolute, direct definition of what the world is.

CROW: All right, doctor. Did you do any evaluations of Mr. Misskelley on his reading level?

WILKINS: Yes I did.

CROW: What were those results?

WILKINS: Uh, at the third grade level.

CROW: Ok, what about his writing level?

WILKINS: At about the point seven level, that means less than first grade.

CROW: Ok, what about his verbal comprehension?

WILKINS: Yes, Jessie has, one of the things we looked at was I read him a short story and asked him to give me details from that. Jessie was able to give one or two details out of a possible 12, 14, depending on the story: a very, very impaired ability to do those kinds of things. Jessie, basically, after a, after a seven or eight word sentence begins to lose whats happening. For example, on the first page of the second confession that he did, hes asked, All right, you told me earlier it was around seven or eight. Which time was it? Jessie responds, It was seven or eight. That is, he got the last half of the sentence.

(Google WM3 trial transcripts to read the full testimony.)

ETA: Regardless of whether or not some feel Jesse functioned at a higher intellectual level, this was still a 17 year old boy with a mean IQ of 72, questioned for 12 hours, with neither a parent or an attorney present, with much of that interogation NOT recorded by investigators. Does that seem kosher to anyone here?

 

[Cappuccino]

Livvy - I'm a bit confused as to why you think Jessie is guilty. I get why people who believe in Jessie's confessions think he's guilty, but you obviously don't or you wouldn't believe Damien and Jason are innocent. So if you've discounted the confessions, on what are you basing your belief in his guilt?

 

[Livvy]

Livvy - I'm a bit confused as to why you think Jessie is guilty. I get why people who believe in Jessie's confessions think he's guilty, but you obviously don't or you wouldn't believe Damien and Jason are innocent. So if you've discounted the confessions, on what are you basing your belief in his guilt?

Sorry for the confusion. I discount his confessions where he involves Damien and Jason. He puts most of the blame on them and tries to make himself appear the good one. I have only read the documents on callahans and watched the trials and that is my instinct. Definatley a witch hunt on D and J though. I think Jessie told the cops D and J were involved because that is what they wanted to hear. By doing this he escaped telling on who was really there. Someone he was probably scared of. He was also seen near the woods where he hid from police as they drove by and and then there is the broken bottle that went with his story. Too much coincidences point to Jessie I think. He knew too much in the first interview to be discounted. ex Michael ran away from the others. I also somewhat believe Aarons first story too. I think those boys really did go to the woods to spy on men having sex and I think Jessie was probably one of them.

Does anyone know if they got DNA samples from LG Hollingsworth before he died?

 

[Livvy]

Ah yes DNA was taken from LG at the end of May/93. Yes I think Jessie was involved but with all the other likely suspects i fear the truth will never be known. With all the likely suspects in that small, small area, I cant believe Damien was singled out because of his weirdness. I guess backwards, inbred folks were the norm in the area...yikes!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Please be aware that small town justice is not limited to the South. The last time I checked, Salem, MA, was not in the South. Neither is California where the McMartin Preschool trial occurred. Neither is Illinois where that guy (whose name I never can remember for long) pleaded guilty to murdering his daughter, was later exonerated and was awarded a multimillion dollar settlement.

I don't see Jessie involved in this at all. He does have an alibi. So, unless you believe that some of the people who provided his alibi were involved (in fact, all of them would have to be involved), I just don't see where you're getting this idea.

Yes, Jessie implicated Damien and Jason. IMO, the main reason that he made them the primary participants was, since he wasn't there, he must have believed it would be easier to convince the police that he just observed, explaining any mistakes he made that way.

When you read the "clarification statement" from June 3, 1993, IMO it is very obvious that the police were leading him into answers. I also firmly believe that they fed him a lot of information during the unrecorded portion of his twelve hour stay before his actual arrest and incarceration. Of course, there is no evidence to back this statement up, and the police will consistently deny such a thing. However, I believe it happened.

I truly hope that the WMFree can be allowed to live their lives in peace and productivity. I also hope and pray that some day soon they will be exonerated - all three of them. Finally, I hope that THe real killer of those three little boys eventually gets his just desserts, too.

Sometimes the old adage applies. "The wheels of justice grind exceeding slow, but they grind exceeding fine." Justice is half served now. I want to see total justice done in this case.

 

[deelytful1]

The buzz about the independent investigation STILL going to trial in order to present the DNA evidence.. Is this an attempt to have them completely exonerated?
I've read alot of "hopes and wishes" from supporters and was wondering if it was true. I would personally LOVE to see the full story out there and all the questions answered. These young men deserve to live peacefully without all the doubts hanging over their heads!
TIA! :seeya:

 

[I Must Break You]

Sorry for the confusion. I discount his confessions where he involves Damien and Jason. He puts most of the blame on them and tries to make himself appear the good one. I have only read the documents on callahans and watched the trials and that is my instinct. Definatley a witch hunt on D and J though. I think Jessie told the cops D and J were involved because that is what they wanted to hear. By doing this he escaped telling on who was really there. Someone he was probably scared of. He was also seen near the woods where he hid from police as they drove by and and then there is the broken bottle that went with his story. Too much coincidences point to Jessie I think. He knew too much in the first interview to be discounted. ex Michael ran away from the others. I also somewhat believe Aarons first story too. I think those boys really did go to the woods to spy on men having sex and I think Jessie was probably one of them.

Does anyone know if they got DNA samples from LG Hollingsworth before he died?

You use the example of Michael running away as proof of some sort that Jessie knew too much.... but other than Jessie saying that in his confession there is absolutely no proof that Michael ever tried to run away. I also don't buy the boys going in the woods to spy on men having sex, that is not something most little 8 year old boys would have any interest in watching.

 

[gitana1]

Hey guys, I created this thread for discussion about what their lives are like now that they are free, and reaction from them and others to their release.

This is not a thread to debate their guilt or innocence. We already have that discussion going on in two other threads.

Here's an update about their plans - a wedding, job searches, college plans and adjusting to freedom: http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-west-...-wedding-and-college-20110826,0,2355742.story

Here's an article about whether or not they can profit from telling their story, giving interviews, etc.: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/08/26/does-the-son-of-sam-law-stand-in-the-way-of-the-west-memphis-3/

 

[justthinkin]

Originally Posted by claudicici View Post
"yes he always has,he recanted each confession quickly."

claudicici, I'm still waiting on hearing what your sources are for this information.

I have no problem with anyone being a supporter, but I do have a problem with false claims from either side because it misleads people. If you can back it up, fine. If not, set the record straight, please.

 

[claudicici]

http://falseconfessions.org/cases-the-incarcerated/32-west-memphis-3

And recently, a sworn affidavit was presented to the court from a prominent former Arkansas prosecutor stating that, during the original Echols/Baldwin trial, the jury foreman repeatedly contacted the attorney informing him that he was introducing Jessie Misskelley's false confession during deliberations to persuade his fellow jurors to convict. Jessie's confession was barred from the trial as he had recanted and refused to testify against Damien and Jason. This structural defect in the proceedings should be sufficient cause to overturn their convictions.

 

[claudicici]

http://rugsville.yuku.com/topic/1536


About a month later Misskelley recanted both confessions and has maintained his innocence since, Stidham said.

 

[Tricksy]

Hey guys, I created this thread for discussion about what their lives are like now that they are free, and reaction from them and others to their release.

This is not a thread to debate their guilt or innocence. We already have that discussion going on in two other threads.

Here's an update about their plans - a wedding, job searches, college plans and adjusting to freedom: http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-west-...-wedding-and-college-20110826,0,2355742.story

Here's an article about whether or not they can profit from telling their story, giving interviews, etc.: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/08/26/does-the-son-of-sam-law-stand-in-the-way-of-the-west-memphis-3/

Thank you for posting these links. I have been curious as to how they have been spending their first few weeks of freedom.

Its good to hear that JB is hoping to go to college. I hope that the positive news will continue.

 

[SheBoss]

Trial testimony from Dr. William Wilkins (1993):

WILKINS: My conclusion was that Jessie reasons on the level of about a, between a six to eight year old. That is what is called a very concrete style of thinking. By concrete I mean is that is an inability to do abstracts, to envision the world in terms of things that I have had concrete experience with. So things are taken and dealt with very literally. Let me give you an example. Another example is that if you have a small child and you tell them, Dont eat any cookies before supper. And you watch, and they go to the cookie jar and get cookies and eat them before supper. And you say to that child, I told you not to get any cookies before supper. And the kid says, I didnt do it. And youre baffled cause you saw them do it. If you question the child for awhile longer hell say to you, I was hungry and got something to eat. And for the child literally, literally, he did not get things when he should not have done so. He got something to eat because he was hungry. It is that very literal, absolute, direct definition of what the world is.

CROW: All right, doctor. Did you do any evaluations of Mr. Misskelley on his reading level?

WILKINS: Yes I did.

CROW: What were those results?

WILKINS: Uh, at the third grade level.

CROW: Ok, what about his writing level?

WILKINS: At about the point seven level, that means less than first grade.

CROW: Ok, what about his verbal comprehension?

WILKINS: Yes, Jessie has, one of the things we looked at was I read him a short story and asked him to give me details from that. Jessie was able to give one or two details out of a possible 12, 14, depending on the story: a very, very impaired ability to do those kinds of things. Jessie, basically, after a, after a seven or eight word sentence begins to lose whats happening. For example, on the first page of the second confession that he did, hes asked, All right, you told me earlier it was around seven or eight. Which time was it? Jessie responds, It was seven or eight. That is, he got the last half of the sentence.

(Google WM3 trial transcripts to read the full testimony.)

ETA: Regardless of whether or not some feel Jesse functioned at a higher intellectual level, this was still a 17 year old boy with a mean IQ of 72, questioned for 12 hours, with neither a parent or an attorney present, with much of that interogation NOT recorded by investigators. Does that seem kosher to anyone here?

And see, this just brings up more problems for me with his post conviction confessions. I just think he HAD to be there. For supporters (I'm saying this very respectfully) to say, he was in court, he heard his trial and picked up things from that, is a problem for me. I'm no physciatrist (I can't even spell it), but I can't see where he can be BOTH mentally retarded AND be able to understand and regurgitate the facts he heard in a trial - even his own. So this is my quandry with the confessions - again, post conviction. That rubbish that was the first one was so obviously wrong, I don't even count it.