Lisa and the river

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Minette, I think it might be this thing where people get in the water and catch catfish with their bare hands. I saw a show about it on NatGeo or Animal Planet a while back.
 
Minette said:
What is noodling???
Click to expand...

There are really large catfish.

Method

Although the concept of catching fish with only the use of the arm in the water is simple enough, the process of noodling is more complicated. The choice of catfish as the prey is not arbitrary, but comes from the circumstances of their habitat. Flathead catfish live in holes or under brush in rivers and lakes and thus are easier to capture due to the static nature of their dwelling. To begin, a noodler goes underwater to depths ranging from only a few feet to up to twenty feet and places his hand inside a discovered catfish hole. If all goes as planned, the catfish will swim forward and latch onto the fisherman's hand, usually as a defensive maneuver, in order to try to escape the hole. If the fish is particularly large, the noodler can hook the hand around its gills.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noodling"]Noodling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Jacie Estes said:
LE has pulled the tapes. LE has reviewed the tapes from that area.

Let's just say that you were on tape no less than 2 times on that short stretch. She drove one way and turned around and went back.

Cams are on the overhead bars where the stoplights are hanging.
Click to expand...

A very important fact that should be pointed out about the Chouteau Bridge that runs over the Missouri River. At the north end of the bridge there is a stoplight. On the bar for the signals, there are cameras.
Here is a sample view of what a traffic light camera can see:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/images/distr...cameraview.jpe

These cameras do NOT record. Here is a paragraph giving out details about the stoplight cameras directly from MODOT (Missouri Department of Transportation):

Who is watching me through these cameras?

There is no constant surveillance or archiving of these images. The camera view is a fixed focus, fixed location image (there is no zooming or moving the cameras once they are installed). The image is analyzed by the camera processor ONLY for the simple presence of vehicles within defined areas or "zones". The resolution of the image by these cameras is NOT good enough to read license plates or distinguish any facial features.
MODOT source for above reference: http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/links/signalcameras.htm

There is another camera system in Kansas City Missouri called KC Scout.
(kcscout.com)
There are no "scout" cameras on the Chouteau bridge.
If anything took place on the Chouteau bridge that night, it was not recorded.

Traffic light cameras vs. KC Scout cameras serve two different purposes.

KsStormy said:
No stoplights on that little road.
Click to expand...
Not only have I explored that road (Birmingham), I have explored about every possible location you could think of to access the river. I have also explored other locations where surveillance systems could be installed. One of the locations I looked into was the BP gas station on the north end of the Chouteau bridge. The station closes at midnight I believe. The cameras point on the pumps and do not cover traffic on Chouteau Trafficway at all. I have also walked down the hill next to the bridge. It's not as steep as people make it out to be. There is a path that leads down the hill to the dead end of Birmingham road right below. From what I can gather, this path was made by homeless people that may reside under the bridge from time to time, and people that may want to fish under the bridge but don't want to park down at the dead end of Birmingham road in fears they might get ticketed for trespassing (railroad property). I have also driven down Birmingham road and under the Chouteau bridge and it's really simple to get out and walk to the water. You can also position your vehicle pointing towards the river with your headlights on to see at night. I have explored every inch of the road, all of the houses on the road, and the businesses. Getting back to the gas station, you can pull into the parking lot on the west side of the station, park, and not be seen on video. You could then walk out onto the walkway on the bridge. I also talked to someone on Birmingham road that stated the barricade at the end of the road isn't always up, and most recently in the last few months it was put in place mainly because of the traffic down there caused by the Lisa Irwin case. Nothing is impossible here. I have also explored the possibility of throwing cell phones out while traveling across the I-435 bridge as I stated I would try to do a few months back. Power windows, three corncobs and out the window they went. All went over with ease. Riverfront park (where the boat dock is) could be closed at night according to the signs, and they have a big yellow bar like most parks have that they could close at night but I am unsure if KC Parks & Rec stays on top of it and locks it up at night. You can see in one of the pictures posted in this topic where there is a boat ramp then the river. If you look to the right of Harrahs and look at the Chouteau bridge, just under it and to the right you can see the terrain isn't that difficult to get to the river from underneath it. Looking for more cameras, I drove into Harrah's casino from Chouteau Trafficway and there isn't a camera until you get in there about a 1/4 of a mile after going around a few curves and the first camera is at the parking garage. I will never rule out the river and all of the access points, especially after traveling to all of the areas and walking many of them.
 
I have not ruled out the river either. For me, the river is the fastest way to dispose of Baby Lisa's body AND the phones. Several people have driven and walked the river accesses and they all have expressed opinions that disposing of her in the river was quite doable.

Her body will most likely never be found. Deb can resume her adult time.:maddening:
 
Jacie Estes said:
LE has pulled the tapes. LE has reviewed the tapes from that area.

Let's just say that you were on tape no less than 2 times on that short stretch. She drove one way and turned around and went back.

Cams are on the overhead bars where the stoplights are hanging.
Click to expand...

Surely there are no cams recording every street in KC, or anywhere else for that matter. This road is too small to have anything recorded on it and cams are for red lights, not general traffic.
 
indepmo said:
A very important fact that should be pointed out about the Chouteau Bridge that runs over the Missouri River. At the north end of the bridge there is a stoplight. On the bar for the signals, there are cameras.
Here is a sample view of what a traffic light camera can see:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/images/distr...cameraview.jpe

These cameras do NOT record. Here is a paragraph giving out details about the stoplight cameras directly from MODOT (Missouri Department of Transportation):

Who is watching me through these cameras?

There is no constant surveillance or archiving of these images. The camera view is a fixed focus, fixed location image (there is no zooming or moving the cameras once they are installed). The image is analyzed by the camera processor ONLY for the simple presence of vehicles within defined areas or "zones". The resolution of the image by these cameras is NOT good enough to read license plates or distinguish any facial features.
MODOT source for above reference: http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/links/signalcameras.htm

There is another camera system in Kansas City Missouri called KC Scout.
(kcscout.com)
There are no "scout" cameras on the Chouteau bridge.
If anything took place on the Chouteau bridge that night, it was not recorded.

Traffic light cameras vs. KC Scout cameras serve two different purposes.


Not only have I explored that road (Birmingham), I have explored about every possible location you could think of to access the river. I have also explored other locations where surveillance systems could be installed. One of the locations I looked into was the BP gas station on the north end of the Chouteau bridge. The station closes at midnight I believe. The cameras point on the pumps and do not cover traffic on Chouteau Trafficway at all. I have also walked down the hill next to the bridge. It's not as steep as people make it out to be. There is a path that leads down the hill to the dead end of Birmingham road right below. From what I can gather, this path was made by homeless people that may reside under the bridge from time to time, and people that may want to fish under the bridge but don't want to park down at the dead end of Birmingham road in fears they might get ticketed for trespassing (railroad property). I have also driven down Birmingham road and under the Chouteau bridge and it's really simple to get out and walk to the water. You can also position your vehicle pointing towards the river with your headlights on to see at night. I have explored every inch of the road, all of the houses on the road, and the businesses. Getting back to the gas station, you can pull into the parking lot on the west side of the station, park, and not be seen on video. You could then walk out onto the walkway on the bridge. I also talked to someone on Birmingham road that stated the barricade at the end of the road isn't always up, and most recently in the last few months it was put in place mainly because of the traffic down there caused by the Lisa Irwin case. Nothing is impossible here. I have also explored the possibility of throwing cell phones out while traveling across the I-435 bridge as I stated I would try to do a few months back. Power windows, three corncobs and out the window they went. All went over with ease. Riverfront park (where the boat dock is) could be closed at night according to the signs, and they have a big yellow bar like most parks have that they could close at night but I am unsure if KC Parks & Rec stays on top of it and locks it up at night. You can see in one of the pictures posted in this topic where there is a boat ramp then the river. If you look to the right of Harrahs and look at the Chouteau bridge, just under it and to the right you can see the terrain isn't that difficult to get to the river from underneath it. Looking for more cameras, I drove into Harrah's casino from Chouteau Trafficway and there isn't a camera until you get in there about a 1/4 of a mile after going around a few curves and the first camera is at the parking garage. I will never rule out the river and all of the access points, especially after traveling to all of the areas and walking many of them.
Click to expand...

One of the best posts that anyone has made with reference to how Lisa could have been put into the river...as well as the phones.

That is a lot of work and dedication that you did regarding this case. I'm sure that many will appreciate this...I know I certainly do. Thank you!
 
norest4thewicked said:
One of the best posts that anyone has made with reference to how Lisa could have been put into the river...as well as the phones.

That is a lot of work and dedication that you did regarding this case. I'm sure that many will appreciate this...I know I certainly do. Thank you!
Click to expand...

How far is it from her house to the I-435 bridge and would she be able to toss the phones and BL (or just the phones) and be back in to the house at 3:45am (last vm attempt 3:20am).
 
indepmo said:
A very important fact that should be pointed out about the Chouteau Bridge that runs over the Missouri River. At the north end of the bridge there is a stoplight. On the bar for the signals, there are cameras.
Here is a sample view of what a traffic light camera can see:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/images/distr...cameraview.jpe

These cameras do NOT record. Here is a paragraph giving out details about the stoplight cameras directly from MODOT (Missouri Department of Transportation):

Who is watching me through these cameras?

There is no constant surveillance or archiving of these images. The camera view is a fixed focus, fixed location image (there is no zooming or moving the cameras once they are installed). The image is analyzed by the camera processor ONLY for the simple presence of vehicles within defined areas or "zones". The resolution of the image by these cameras is NOT good enough to read license plates or distinguish any facial features.
MODOT source for above reference: http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/links/signalcameras.htm

There is another camera system in Kansas City Missouri called KC Scout.
(kcscout.com)
There are no "scout" cameras on the Chouteau bridge.
If anything took place on the Chouteau bridge that night, it was not recorded.

Traffic light cameras vs. KC Scout cameras serve two different purposes.


Not only have I explored that road (Birmingham), I have explored about every possible location you could think of to access the river. I have also explored other locations where surveillance systems could be installed. One of the locations I looked into was the BP gas station on the north end of the Chouteau bridge. The station closes at midnight I believe. The cameras point on the pumps and do not cover traffic on Chouteau Trafficway at all. I have also walked down the hill next to the bridge. It's not as steep as people make it out to be. There is a path that leads down the hill to the dead end of Birmingham road right below. From what I can gather, this path was made by homeless people that may reside under the bridge from time to time, and people that may want to fish under the bridge but don't want to park down at the dead end of Birmingham road in fears they might get ticketed for trespassing (railroad property). I have also driven down Birmingham road and under the Chouteau bridge and it's really simple to get out and walk to the water. You can also position your vehicle pointing towards the river with your headlights on to see at night. I have explored every inch of the road, all of the houses on the road, and the businesses. Getting back to the gas station, you can pull into the parking lot on the west side of the station, park, and not be seen on video. You could then walk out onto the walkway on the bridge. I also talked to someone on Birmingham road that stated the barricade at the end of the road isn't always up, and most recently in the last few months it was put in place mainly because of the traffic down there caused by the Lisa Irwin case. Nothing is impossible here. I have also explored the possibility of throwing cell phones out while traveling across the I-435 bridge as I stated I would try to do a few months back. Power windows, three corncobs and out the window they went. All went over with ease. Riverfront park (where the boat dock is) could be closed at night according to the signs, and they have a big yellow bar like most parks have that they could close at night but I am unsure if KC Parks & Rec stays on top of it and locks it up at night. You can see in one of the pictures posted in this topic where there is a boat ramp then the river. If you look to the right of Harrahs and look at the Chouteau bridge, just under it and to the right you can see the terrain isn't that difficult to get to the river from underneath it. Looking for more cameras, I drove into Harrah's casino from Chouteau Trafficway and there isn't a camera until you get in there about a 1/4 of a mile after going around a few curves and the first camera is at the parking garage. I will never rule out the river and all of the access points, especially after traveling to all of the areas and walking many of them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering questions I have had & I'm sure many others. I was too scared to get out on Birmingham, even with my big killer dog along. :what: Very spooky place for sure. I had wondered about Riverfront park closing at night as well, but still the closest place is by the elevator. The barricades were up when I went down, so was unable to go under the bridge, which for some reason I REALLY wanted to check out, glad you were able to.
 
iamnotagolem said:
I know we've talked a lot about the direct route from the house to the river, but I think considering down river dumps is a good idea, too.

I wonder if there were any reports that night of anyone tossing things off a bridge. I know some places actually post all police calls in their local papers, I wonder if there is a way to go back and see if there were any police calls for any suspicious activity along the river or on bridges. Really anywhere along the river, but primarily downstream, as that would make the most sense.

ps. awesome thread idea
Click to expand...

There is one report that I know of that has been discussed in other threads, not sure if its ok to post here, so please delete if not appropriate to post here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150559&page=37

Starting at post 918...
 
cityslick said:
How far is it from her house to the I-435 bridge and would she be able to toss the phones and BL (or just the phones) and be back in to the house at 3:45am (last vm attempt 3:20am).
Click to expand...

You'd have to ask indepmo that. She is the one who did all the research. I live in Nashville now.
 
Thanks for that. Myself and a couple of others here saw that on the scanner thread, but we knew that we weren't allowed to bring it over. This apparently is from another area. VERY interesting information indeed. I had my theory of Lisa being in the river long before I saw this, but this, combined with what indepmo told us this morning, is pretty telling to me.
 
It just came to my attention that it may not be ok to post about that here. If so I'm sorry and please remove it.
 
indepmo said:
Not only have I explored that road (Birmingham), I have explored about every possible location you could think of to access the river. I have also explored other locations where surveillance systems could be installed. One of the locations I looked into was the BP gas station on the north end of the Chouteau bridge. The station closes at midnight I believe. The cameras point on the pumps and do not cover traffic on Chouteau Trafficway at all. I have also walked down the hill next to the bridge. It's not as steep as people make it out to be. There is a path that leads down the hill to the dead end of Birmingham road right below. From what I can gather, this path was made by homeless people that may reside under the bridge from time to time, and people that may want to fish under the bridge but don't want to park down at the dead end of Birmingham road in fears they might get ticketed for trespassing (railroad property). I have also driven down Birmingham road and under the Chouteau bridge and it's really simple to get out and walk to the water. You can also position your vehicle pointing towards the river with your headlights on to see at night. I have explored every inch of the road, all of the houses on the road, and the businesses. Getting back to the gas station, you can pull into the parking lot on the west side of the station, park, and not be seen on video. You could then walk out onto the walkway on the bridge. I also talked to someone on Birmingham road that stated the barricade at the end of the road isn't always up, and most recently in the last few months it was put in place mainly because of the traffic down there caused by the Lisa Irwin case. Nothing is impossible here. I have also explored the possibility of throwing cell phones out while traveling across the I-435 bridge as I stated I would try to do a few months back. Power windows, three corncobs and out the window they went. All went over with ease. Riverfront park (where the boat dock is) could be closed at night according to the signs, and they have a big yellow bar like most parks have that they could close at night but I am unsure if KC Parks & Rec stays on top of it and locks it up at night. You can see in one of the pictures posted in this topic where there is a boat ramp then the river. If you look to the right of Harrahs and look at the Chouteau bridge, just under it and to the right you can see the terrain isn't that difficult to get to the river from underneath it. Looking for more cameras, I drove into Harrah's casino from Chouteau Trafficway and there isn't a camera until you get in there about a 1/4 of a mile after going around a few curves and the first camera is at the parking garage. I will never rule out the river and all of the access points, especially after traveling to all of the areas and walking many of them.
Click to expand...
SBM BBM
Yes. And you were caught on tape no less than 2x on this trip.
Two that I specifically know of. Maybe more. Anybody going down Birmingham road by vehicle is on tape. LE has gotten tape from them for that first week of October. One I specifically know of as I have spoken to the owner of the tapes and he told me that the owners of the other set of cameras were also asked, and complied with, turning over the tapes to LE. Walking down the path from Pour Boys probably would not be on tape, but anybody parking anywhere to get to the path would be.

The businesses and residents along Birmingham Road were tired of people driving down there and stealing scrap and machinery and many installed cameras for this reason - so they could get the vehicle and possibly plates of said vehicles.

Throwing phones off of any bridge would be absolutely no problem. Something as big as a baby, not so much.
 
cityslick said:
How far is it from her house to the I-435 bridge and would she be able to toss the phones and BL (or just the phones) and be back in to the house at 3:45am (last vm attempt 3:20am).
Click to expand...
It, itself is probably 5 miles or so, but you have to go down to Front Street, which is another couple of miles south, to turn around. At that time Front Street was a total mess from major reconfiguration construction that was mainly going on during the night time hours. Very limited traffic flows and many delays. They were reconfiguring the underpass to what MODOT calls a converging diamond pattern. Total, utter, chaos under there then! No telling how long you could have been waiting for clearance to pass then.
 
norest4thewicked said:
Thanks for that. Myself and a couple of others here saw that on the scanner thread, but we knew that we weren't allowed to bring it over. This apparently is from another area. VERY interesting information indeed. I had my theory of Lisa being in the river long before I saw this, but this, combined with what indepmo told us this morning, is pretty telling to me.
Click to expand...

Wow, never heard this before, I wonder if there is anything to this! :what:
 
annalia said:
Wow, never heard this before, I wonder if there is anything to this! :what:
Click to expand...

I find it very hard to believe that something like that would be related to the BL case and no media reported on it during October. Why are we now finding out out a scanner report from October. Plus, did the report mention where on the river it was spotted?
 
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