Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

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Marilynilpa said:
I'm still amazed that there is a POI in this case. I have always felt Mike Debardaleben could be the perp, but with all of this info coming out about Welch, I have to rethink my theory.

I think the police sketch does look a lot like Welch.
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I considered him also.
 
Copper said:
Yes, but I believe Fukiyama is asking why LE declined to say how they placed Welch at Wheaton while at the same time indicating he pretty much matches a sketch of a man who took in an interest in the sisters at the mall. LE seems to have something more definitive than just matching Welch with a sketch, something more that LE is protecting.
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If I am understanding correctly they are also looking for any security guards from that time. I wonder if the suspect and his gf were cited/stopped for shoplifting or something and they have those records from that day. That would place them at the mall.

I am so happy there seems to be a lead/break in this case. I worked in a lamp store at Wheaton Plaza, as well as the movie theater back in the early 80's. That area behind Montgomery Wards was always deserted and I always thought that was the area they would have been taken from.

Kelly
 
TracyLynnS said:
About that 77Pont03, any car people have ideas? Would this be a 3 door/hatchback description?

Looks like the Sunbird, Astre, Ventura, were hatchbacks.... need to keep looking.

And could someone describe a hatchback as a station wagon by mistake? Didn't a witness say the sisters were seen bound in a station wagon?

ETA - just realized the years are off for a possible mistaken description between a hatch and wagon: 1975, girls possibly sighted a week after going missing, 1977, year of car in description of 1979 ticket for driving w/o license
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I'd be leaning towards a station-wagon over a hatchback considering their circumstances during the 1970's.

"They [LLW and HC] lived on the road and had no permanent home. Askins said that they had four children together but that authorities eventually removed them because the couple were unable to provide for them."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...f4d856-9330-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
 
I encourage everybody to watch the whole Mont. Co. Police news conference. They divulged one piece of information that can't be found anywhere else. A witness said Welch showed interest/fixated
in the girls. In the conference, the police spokesman said Welch FOLLOWED the girls. That's a big difference isn't it?
 
LE in general has a bad habit of sitting on important info that could catch the perps. Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber really stands out in my mind. They sat on his long rambling "essay" for decades and then finally published it in a major newspaper. They caught the Unabomber almost immediately when his brother recognized the writing and turned him in.
 
The problems with Welch, without more info are:

1: Did he have access to a vehicle.
2: Did he have friends that lived in the immediate neighborhood or could he sleep somewhere in the immediate neighborhood close to Drumm Ave and were his hosts away at the time

It seems to me that if 1 and 2 are not true, it would be really difficult to pull this off. I will say that back in 1975, there were fewer houses and streets in that neighborhood and there were homes under construction providing numerous places for disposal, I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. I was the same age as Kate at the time and lived in Colesville. Seems to me the girls are still in the neighborhood or they were taken away by vehicle. Welch has never been suspected of murders so does he really fit? Don't serial criminals find themselves unable to stop killing once they start? I can't really imagine Welch just coaxing two young girls that are supposed to be home by 4pm, talking them into walking down the RR tracks to Forest Glenn, Silver Spring, or Rockville for that matter and then molesting them and killing them.
 
I wonder if LLW lured the girls into a Carnival trailer? Then used a van from the Carnival to drive them away.

Has LE ever interviewed or will they interview these Carnival workers?
 
Does anyone have any ideas on how to find out the dates and the areas of the traveling carnivals? I am also interested in the NY locations that Lloyd traveled to....
 
SeaEclipse said:
Now that the WP article explains where the sketch that looks like LLW came from (a girl who was w/ them earlier that day describing a man who was following them), I'm even more confused as to why that sketch was never released to the public before now.
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I guess it was one of those things LE was holding back but the fact that they put out the TRM sketch and not this one is puzzling to me.
Or maybe LE just couldn't handle the enormity of the case in 1975 and it was overlooked.
 
Wayners said:
The problems with Welch, without more info are:

1: Did he have access to a vehicle.
2: Did he have friends that lived in the immediate neighborhood or could he sleep somewhere in the immediate neighborhood close to Drumm Ave and were his hosts away at the time

It seems to me that if 1 and 2 are not true, it would be really difficult to pull this off. I will say that back in 1975, there were fewer houses and streets in that neighborhood and there were homes under construction providing numerous places for disposal, I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. I was the same age as Kate at the time and lived in Colesville. Seems to me the girls are still in the neighborhood or they were taken away by vehicle. Welch has never been suspected of murders so does he really fit? Don't serial criminals find themselves unable to stop killing once they start? I can't really imagine Welch just coaxing two young girls that are supposed to be home by 4pm, talking them into walking down the RR tracks to Forest Glenn, Silver Spring, or Rockville for that matter and then molesting them and killing them.
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Not necessarily. He could be primarily a rapist and not a killer and only killed when things got out of hand or he panicked or whatever else. Not every person who murders someone is a serial killer who will continue to kill every time. They could "just" be rapists who felt pressured to kill once or twice. Even among serial killers, we have examples of perps who didn't kill every victim with "just" rape or assault charges intermingled with murdered victims.
He could also have murdered more than we know-there are definitely serial killers out there that have never been caught and he fits the likely mold for being that type of person. It helps to move around a lot and live a more transient lifestyle. I don't know if I buy that he has been this lucky to never get caught, but I wouldn't bet entirely against it either especially if he didn't murder every time and the Lyons were more of an exception for him.
I also don't think his age is an issue (not directed at you Wayners, but others raising that concern). I think the traditional beliefs that murderers have to be middle-aged is there for a reason, but it does not exclude younger murderers. They almost didn't catch the creep who murdered Jessica Ridgeway because of a DNA issue, but also because he was considered too young. He actually could have easily gotten away with that murder and continued to commit more if circumstances had been slightly different. He was 17 and had earlier attempts. I believe we even think some well-known serial killers had attempts or murders much earlier than we originally thought and often starting in that 15-18 year range. I can no longer easily exclude anyone for being "too young" to commit a horrible crime and get away with it. I am actually wondering if the reason they pushed the TRM sketch and not this one is because they believed he was just a harmless teenager following the girls around while TRM "fit" their idea of murderers and rapists=middle-aged man (late 20s, early 30s) or older :( That would be a damned shame if true and Welch turns out to be the perp :(

Wayners, I do think you bring up a lot of interesting points though and I agree that your two main points are central to this discussion. The logistics of it get me more than his age or him not being a convicted murderer at this time. Did he have a car? Where did he take them? How did no one see? Did he have help? Your #1 and #2 have to be answered before we can really consider Welch further. I guess it would be too much to ask if he would just tell the truth and a truth we could trust?
 
FWIW I can see this guy using the carnival as a lure.......
Maybe he had access to vehicles, legally or otherwise with the carnival.

Anyone have a link to the sketch?

Thanks!
 
Wayners said:
The problems with Welch, without more info are:

1: Did he have access to a vehicle.
2: Did he have friends that lived in the immediate neighborhood or could he sleep somewhere in the immediate neighborhood close to Drumm Ave and were his hosts away at the time

It seems to me that if 1 and 2 are not true, it would be really difficult to pull this off. I will say that back in 1975, there were fewer houses and streets in that neighborhood and there were homes under construction providing numerous places for disposal, I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. I was the same age as Kate at the time and lived in Colesville. Seems to me the girls are still in the neighborhood or they were taken away by vehicle. Welch has never been suspected of murders so does he really fit? Don't serial criminals find themselves unable to stop killing once they start? I can't really imagine Welch just coaxing two young girls that are supposed to be home by 4pm, talking them into walking down the RR tracks to Forest Glenn, Silver Spring, or Rockville for that matter and then molesting them and killing them.
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We don't know that he's never been suspected of murder and if he wasn't, he is now and LE in all the places that he's been will be looking at the dates that young girls went missing from areas that he's been. He has been all over the map. Joseph Duncan is a perfect example of someone who commits sexual assaults in many different states but doesn't always kill his victims. Duncan also committed his first assault at a young age,he was 15. Welch has been convicted of many sexual assaults but that doesn't mean that he's not guilty of anything else. I don't think we know if he had friends near Drumm Ave or at least I don't know. :) He was arrested for burglary on Dobson Street in the mid 70's. Dobson is near Drumm and behind McComas and it's 1 mile from the Lyon home. It seems that he was familiar with the neighborhood. Did he have a car? Again, I don't have that answer yet but his girlfriend,Helen Craver,was 3 years older than him and may have had a vehicle.
 
trigger said:
I wonder if LLW lured the girls into a Carnival trailer? Then used a van from the Carnival to drive them away.

Has LE ever interviewed or will they interview these Carnival workers?
Click to expand...

I am interested to know this. Would carnival workers get around in an RV at that time or live in a caravan they do in the carnival where I live six miles away.

Where could he pull this crime off without the girls being spotted?
 
This date and address on the FBI list:

April 1, 1975
Address of 4714 Baltimore Avenue in Hyattsville, Maryland, provided to law enforcement

It was his father and stepmother's home.
 
SophieRose said:
This date and address on the FBI list:

April 1, 1975
Address of 4714 Baltimore Avenue in Hyattsville, Maryland, provided to law enforcement

It was his father and stepmother's home.
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I took a screen shot but now I can't find it... so here is a little pic of the above address.
 

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Hi!
I am new to this site but have followed this case for years. I grew up in Aspen Hill and was five years old at the time of the Lyon sisters disappearance. I have always thought about the Lyon sisters and hoped law enforcement would someday solve this case. I remember seeing a comment some time ago (I do not remember where and can no longer find it) from the girl who was with the Lyon sisters the day they vanished. She said there was a drifter type by the path to their house. I wish I could remember more or could find the actual comment but have looked everywhere on the web and have not been successful in finding it again. Anyone else remember reading it somewhere? Thanks!
 
Lanatara said:
Hi!
I am new to this site but have followed this case for years. I grew up in Aspen Hill and was five years old at the time of the Lyon sisters disappearance. I have always thought about the Lyon sisters and hoped law enforcement would someday solve this case. I remember seeing a comment some time ago (I do not remember where and can no longer find it) from the girl who was with the Lyon sisters the day they vanished. She said there was a drifter type by the path to their house. I wish I could remember more or could find the actual comment but have looked everywhere on the web and have not been successful in finding it again. Anyone else remember reading it somewhere? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Lanatara thanks for posting this welcome to websleuths and thanks for caring about the case. It is encouraging how many people online who lived in the area have not forgotten details. Is it worthwhile someone contacting 800 CALL FBI or tips.fbi.gov with the information above? If it's true it may help them figure out where the girls were abducted from and work out places where they may have been taken.
 
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