long weekend break: discuss the latest here #102

[smeck]

My current working theory, subject to change, is that she stole the gun to use as the murder weapon, and then somewhere on her travels saw the knife which she bought or stole or "borrowed." Because it looked like so much more fun. JMO

I agree with many posters who think she had 2 weapons so it would look like 2 attackers.

 

[G&AMom]

Or to paraphrase one of my wise teacher ed profs, for some people 35 years' experience is just 1 year of experience repeated 35 times. Doc Samuels is an effective teaching witness. If only his hypothesis wasn't so transparently built on sand.

And the Doc may well have diagnosed you with PTSD at age 8, especially if he were a paid consultant in a lawsuit.

BBM. Truer words were never spoken! A perfect description of the good "dr."

I also agree that Steely could have PTSD. His traumatic experience has caused him to forget how traumatic it was, so he doesn't remember it or that he's supposed to have the symptoms of PTSD.

I know all about PTSD myself. I was told on one occasion that yes, that dress did make me look "fat." I've really never recovered.

 

[G&AMom]

I agree with many posters who think she had 2 weapons so it would look like 2 attackers.

Yes, that's a possibility as well.

 

[Nosey Parker]

I thought this same scenario - the camera accidentally got lost in the sheets. But, the camera wasn't washed with sheets, it was in with a small load of black socks, a few of TA's clothes, and a towel... Now what are we to think???

Here's what I think:

She intended to put the camera, photos deleted, back into its box in the office, thinking nobody would look at it for months, until they were packing up Travis' effects. Being family members, and not CSI, they would only see the pictures she left on there (which I believe were pictures of Travis off-roading).

She did not plan for the camera to become bloodied. When she found it was, she deliberately threw it in the washer with other bloody items (towels used in the clean up, and Travis' clothes, that were probably removed prior to showering and left on the bathroom floor) solely to wash off her DNA.

She did not for one moment think those deleted photos would survive the wash and be recovered enough to view.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Can someone find that text. I looked for it and couldn't find it. I'm pretty sure in the text it says "feel THE wrath" and not "MY wrath"

Your memory is correct. It's "feel THE wrath."

I think the pictures were trophy pictures. I think she transferred them to another device and deleted them from the camera and threw it in the wash. I believe she wanted to see them whenever she wanted to relive the experience. JMO

Can you explain how she would have transferred them to another device? My brain is foggy at the moment. But she wanted trophy pictures, I agree!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If you need a break from JA discussion, or you're not in to March Madness, there's a fabulous lineup of movies based on actual crimes on Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network today/tonight. Times are EDT.

No One Would Tell: 2:00 LMN

Hunt for the I-5 Killer: 4:00 Lifetime

The Craigslist Killer: 6:00 Lifetime

Betty Broderick/A Woman Scorned: 8:00 LMN

Romeo Killer/The Chris Porco Story: 8:00 Lifetime

Betty Broderick/Her Final Fury: 10:00 LMN

Beyond the Headlines: The Chris Porco Story (analysis of the movie based on a true story) 10:00 Lifetime

 

[TXHoney]

So she reads off this entire tirade of Travis’s, where he is obviously freaked out by her…AND THAT IS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE DEFENSE?

Sadly, she did NOT read the entire tirade. Some very key things about Jodi's actions were shown on the screen, but they were not read out loud.

 

[Negative green]

Oh that's right - to recreate the picture of her and her sister! I listen to this at work on my phone but don't watch it so I never saw it. When Steely posted it I thought she was just giving Jenny a hug in court and I was wtf is going on?

Why isn't there a doctor's report to confirm or more likely de-edify her broken finger? Not that it matters if her finger really was broken.. She could have done it at any time ...big deal!

 

[pghbrandi]

If you need a break from JA discussion, or you're not in to March Madness, there's a fabulous lineup of movies based on actual crimes on Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network today/tonight. Times are EDT.

No One Would Tell: 2:00 LMN

Hunt for the I-5 Killer: 4:00 Lifetime

The Craigslist Killer: 6:00 Lifetime

Betty Broderick/A Woman Scorned: 8:00 LMN

Romeo Killer/The Chris Porco Story: 8:00 Lifetime

Betty Broderick/Her Final Fury: 10:00 LMN

Beyond the Headlines: The Chris Porco Story (analysis of the movie based on a true story) 10:00 Lifetime

WOW! That is a great lineup!!!

 

[Texas Lady]

Re-posting a blog post someone posted that tears apart Samuels scientific assertions.

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-how-expert-was-dr-samuels-expert-testimony/

She also brings that there are separate malingering tests he could have performed. JM needs to read that.

Thank you so much. I really hope JM reads this or at least explored these thoughts. If he has Monday will be juanderful

 

[momof7]

Wonder if any knives were missing from her workplace. She was working in a restuarant still correct?

Kelly

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Thank you for doing that but shouldn't the arrow be at the 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" point? The next tape over?

To quote from the autopsy report:

"A 1 1/2 inch oblique stab wound of the paramidline right chest, with penetration / perforation of the costochondral junction near the sternum at the level of the 3rd and 4th right ribs; the wound extend to a maximal depth of approximately 3 1/2 inches with penetration of the superior vena cava near the base of the heart, with a small amount of surrounding hemorrhagic in the mediastinal soft tissues and the pericardial sac of the heart; a portion of the costochondral cartilage encompassing the stab wound is excised and retained at the FSC for potential further analysis." (page 3 of 8, redacted autopsy report).

Thank you again! I don't know how you got the image so big but mad props to you!

ETA: Oh! I get what you are saying. You are saying she went in deeper with the knife than would have been required to penetrate the superior vena cava. Mea culpa! (I already admitted to being foggy this morning)

 

[Southern_Meadow]

How many of you think Matt M will be called as a witness in Juan's rebuttal? He's brought him up a lot. It could be he's done it so the DT doesn't have him testify, knowing that Juan will turn him into the state's witness in a New York minute, but I have a feeling that he is going to be on that stand at some point and it's going to be one long Perry Mason moment that will seal JA's fate once and for all, in a no doubt about it sort of way.

Also, yesterday during the hour that Dr Drew's Katie was on HLN, Jean C was asked by Mike Galanos about LaViolette and what we could expect. She told about her experience with helping women who were victims of DV and said she could be an important witness.... but then she said that there had been a hearing where Juan questioned her and she had read the transcript. She wouldn't say what exactly was in it, but said that he "ripped her apart" so her cross examination could be "very interesting".

 

[EquallyDivided]

The Arias interrogation in which she brings up the intruders, she talks about arriving at Travis', sleeping, trying to view the picture CD's, copulating in the bedroom and the office, and then her explanation of taking pictures in the shower. At that point, she says that Travis was crouched/kneeling in the shower when one of the intruders (first time she mentions one) shoots Travis in the head.

I know what the ME stated, but the body had been manipulated in two ways after his death. One, Travis was dragged into the shower, and his head was upright - I believe that its possible a few things could have happened. Two, the shower was turned on to wash away DNA from Arias that happened during the attack. It's not improbable that several things could have happened (this is just my theory).

Gravity, blood leakage from the first wound site, water probably entered the bullet wound site thereby diluting those indicators, and the stabbings likely occurred very quickly after the shot. There may not have been a quick drop in blood pressure in order to prevent the usual indicators of the "shot first" theory. So, with all of those factors, it is essentially anybody's guess at this point, except Jodi's. Jodi never even mentions stabbing in the Ninja story.

At the end of the day, I believe that she shot him first to incapacitate him. It's just too logical for her not to have done that first - and I don't believe she intended for it to be a knife fight - I think she always intended to stab him post mortem in order to make it look like there were multiple attackers. I don't think she anticipated having to use it until the .25 jammed.

MOO!

 

[neesaki]

This perfectly explains what is going on in Jodi's mind. She was a psychopathic stalker.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/psychopaths-and-stalking/

Good find. It's as if it was written with JA in mind. This in particular fits JA to a tee.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/psychopaths-and-stalking/
1) psychopaths, being control-driven individuals, can’t take rejection
2) psychopaths, being control-driven, also don’t like to relinquish control over their targets
3) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to WIN. To them, winning means catching their targets into their spider’s nets and destroying them
4) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to exact vengeance and intimidate those who no longer worship them, want them, or obey them blindly.

 

[josie1986]

oh this just gave me chills.

 

[perfectvirgo]

Another reason it seems so odd she would encumber herself with that camera during the attack. A gun, a knife, and a camera?

Right! (Three hands?!)

Which would TA be least alarmed at? The camera - the enticement to the shower. IMO the weapons were out of sight until the very last moment.

 

[borndem]

I don't know anymore. I am actually kind of worried, for the first time. I just had dinner with my older brother, an attorney. We briefly talked about this case, and I was saying how confident I was, because the DT has not and will not be able to prove Self Defense.

My bro said 'so what ?'. They are probably not even really aiming for that. A great strategy is sometimes to 'hide the ball in the laundry basket', as he calls it. You get the state to spend time and energy arguing against 'self defense' and so they feel confident in their position. Meanwhile the DT slowly builds a legal foundation for something else, and gets the judge to include the lesser charges.

So for example, if they can get the DV expert to convince the jury that Jodi was a true victim of violence, then the battered woman syndrome creeps up.
And they try to get one or two sympathetic jurors to believe that JA was a silent victim and snapped when he came at her once again. It is not a true self defense strategy, it is more like a ' self defense at first but then I snapped from the constant abuse and committed overkill.'

It could come out of nowhere if they play it right.

bbm

Good point, I regret to say, katydid. I've been, and still am, holding my breath on this one. I guess I'm just gun-shy over cases that really hold me, and this one certainly does. There's always that one juror, or as you say, the judge could add a 2nd degree murder charge to the charges -- if there is not one there already.

I don't know how that kind of thing goes in AZ, but here in NC, the judges quite often add a 2nd degree murder charge in there to keep from getting overturned if the charge wasn't there from the start, since that has been an appeal point in a couple of overturned verdicts...

One second I'm confident of Murder 1st, but the other 59 seconds, I'm worried about the Murder 1st or NG being the jury's only choices. And it sometimes makes that one juror change his/her mind on hanging the verdict -- if that lesser charge is included. In no way is it 2nd degree, but it's better, IMO, than a hung jury.

:banghead: grrrrrr

 

[neesaki]

:twocents: Theory, here's why:

1. She was "compassionate" :aka: Doc Samuels
2. He didn't take no for an answer, how did the pics get taken on Jun4/08?

I may just be confused, but are you sure you're watching the same trial? :waitasec:

 

[EquallyDivided]

The Arias interrogation in which she brings up the intruders, she talks about arriving at Travis', sleeping, trying to view the picture CD's, copulating in the bedroom and the office, and then her explanation of taking pictures in the shower. At that point, she says that Travis was crouched/kneeling in the shower when one of the intruders (first time she mentions one) shoots Travis in the head.

I know what the ME stated, but the body had been manipulated in two ways after his death. One, Travis was dragged into the shower, and his head was upright - I believe that its possible a few things could have happened. Two, the shower was turned on to wash away DNA from Arias that happened during the attack. It's not improbable that several things could have happened (this is just my theory).

Gravity, blood leakage from the first wound site, water probably entered the bullet wound site thereby diluting those indicators, and the stabbings likely occurred very quickly after the shot. There may not have been a quick drop in blood pressure in order to prevent the usual indicators of the "shot first" theory. So, with all of those factors, it is essentially anybody's guess at this point, except Jodi's. Jodi never even mentions stabbing in the Ninja story.

At the end of the day, I believe that she shot him first to incapacitate him. It's just too logical for her not to have done that first - and I don't believe she intended for it to be a knife fight - I think she always intended to stab him post mortem in order to make it look like there were multiple attackers. I don't think she anticipated having to use it until the .25 jammed.

MOO!

And one more thing. When you are in the shower, you would naturally face the shower head if you wanted to have "water droplet pictures" as she stated in the interrogation. One picture does show him in this position. If she is standing over him and shoots, the tragectory of the bullet wound fully supports this theory.