long weekend break: discuss the latest here #103

[JayB12]

There is such a thing as mouse chow? I'd have to throw it to him from my place standing on the chair. I have an terrible fright of them. I know it's not logical - just one of those things I'll have to work on.
Too bad Arias got over her fear ......of guns.

Was this you as a child...?

 

[momof7]

It makes no sense because she made it up. The only reason to take 3 gas cans is to cover her trail to Arizona.

I agree. The gas was cheaper in states other than CA why gas them up in CA?

Kelly

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Glad you posted the shower pics, I've posted in other places and after I get all done, it sends me back to sign in. Hopefully this time I can get to have my say. I have seen these photos and wonder if and why no one is commenting on the fact that TA looks like he has blood running from underneath ear left ear. Right around 44 you can see he's changed positions and is facing opposite. Wondering if he was shot and stunned, then JA forced him at gun point to pose since those other photos don't look like he was into it. Definitely at 51 and then 57-108 on the tape you can see the differences.
IMO he may have been shot, not realized or was stunned. Then he got out of shower and he spit blood into bathrm sink. She may have been stabbing him then, either at the end of these photos or he jumps out of shower and decides to tackle her. At some point they're still in the bathrm. and he now has lost enough blood, adrenaline pumping somewhat maybe, he tries to run away and she catches him in hallway and finishes him.
That is when she tries to drag him back.
This pyscho actually was taking as many pics as she could, remember how interested and adamant she was to see the pics again at the police station. She is so demonic. And lastly why doesn't this judge tell these lawyers to move things along. Uh how about we have some consideration for a jury that's been more than patient.

I've seen what you're referring to. I too have thought some of those trickles looked like blood. But the autopsy report doesn't support that. The autopsy report doesn't show any such injury there, and nothing that would have caused bleeding in that area.

I do wonder what was happening in several lengthy gaps between photos--60 seconds, 116 seconds, 86 seconds--all before the final closeup of his face. And another 70 seconds between the closeup of his face and the final seated pose. Then 44 more seconds before the accidental ceiling photo where the camera is moving, according to Detectives Flores and Melendez.

But I doubt he was ever taking a shower at that time--with no soap, not touching his body, and with his arms far above his head. If those who believe he was actually showering would recreate each of his poses, just like in the video, in sequence, I think it would be clear almost immediately that something else was going on. Maybe he was voluntarily posing at the beginning, but one thing he wasn't doing, in my opinion, was taking a normal shower. There is nothing normal about that sequence of photos. Poor Travis.

Does anyone have a categorical, analytical response to the concept that, ""if she planned and premeditated to kill Travis, then how is it that she knew she would have a window of time undetected in that not one, but TWO roommates would not be a problem, or interfere? What I am saying is that it would be easier to plan a murder of a single guy w/no roommates, but how would she be able to plan , and count on the fact that, the roommates would not be there during the murder , or even during the attempted clean-up of the murder? I am genuinely interested to know your thoughts on this point.
Thanks.

One can have premeditation and make a plan even with a lot of unknowns in the mix. One can't know everything. I got a kick out of dbranam's idea:

How about, Travis I want to have some real down and dirty sex with you while I am there. Will there be a time when the roommates will not be in? Or maybe just, what are your roommates doing this week?

:blushing:

But she clearly did think about the roommates. That's probably why she arrived around 4 in the morning, when both roommates would be safely asleep. Because the minute they saw and were able to ID her, she's toast if she tries to murder Travis.

Most young working people don't get home until around 6 pm. But for her to wait so late in the afternoon to kill him, she had to be fairly sure they wouldn't be returning until 6 pm or later. Roommate Enrique Cortez was taking the bus to save money and gas, and he believes he arrived home even later than 6 pm.

Most criminals slip up. Jodi's slip-ups included:

1. She kept the cash receipt from Walmart showing she bought a 3rd gas can. Busted!
2. She filled up the gas cans with her credit card. Separate purchases one right after the other for more gas than her car could hold Busted!
3. She didn't cover her hair tightly and the hair she left on the floor of the hallway had the root bulb attached, showing it hadn't been there long. Busted!
4. She slit his throat, which caused so much blood to gush her hand slipped on the bloody knife and cut the inside of her fingers, so that
5. when she lost her balance (from running into the camera on the floor) she left a handprint consisting of a mixture of her blood and Travis' blood. Busted!
6. She left the camera AND the memory stick behind. Busted!

Detective Flores told her he's never had a case with so much evidence. So much. That's he's convicted people with less evidence.

There is also a ton of circumstantial evidence, from
- the rental car location 100 miles away to
- insisting on an inconspicuous color car
- turning off her phone for something like 20 hours to
- showing up 24 hours late to Ryan's house to
- dying her hair brown to
- using a gun of the same general description as reported stolen just days earlier from her residence
- Travis' friends fingered Jodi in the 911 call as the likely murderer

And on and on. If this jury doesn't convict her of felony murder, I'll lose faith in the justice sys...oops, too late, lost that quite a while ago.

However, KatieCoolady has faith that THIS jury will come to the right verdict. :jail:

 

[Novice Seeker]

And judges and other officers of the court don't think much of perjury, either.

If Nurmi was totally in the dark about this, I would think he would be madder than he!! and very insulted by what Samuels has done, as IMO, he should be. And JW as well. (But you get what you pay for, er, um, no, it's the State of Arizona, Maricopa County that will be paying his fee$. Maybe if this is proved, it could affect his payment....)

We see things like this, rarely, in court cases we watch, and we don't ever know if they are given any attention after the trial is over. Will this one disappear, or will we hear more?

If it had been done by the PT, the defense would ask for a mistrial, and it could be grounds for appeal... <smh>

IANAL and JMHO

The problem is that didn't appear to bother either JW or Nurmi. From what I have observed both of them have been very aware of RS's unethical behavior and boundaries including reports and evaluations so egregious that if it wasn't for the seriousness of a death penalty trial I would think someone was getting punk'd and looking for the camera.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

WASHINGTON-March 24, 2013-“if you care enough to read why you should fear a psychopath, the good news is, you are not one”-Paul Mountjoy-self-quote.

Women can be and have been cold blooded murderers since the dawn of time. History tells us Cleopatra, the last pharaoh of ancient Greece, had no personal issue with ordering the deaths of those who stood in her way of her ideals, and the list grows dramatically as time marches on.

Society at large and the legal fraternity assign the term “psychopath” to those who take the lives of others without remorse, sympathy or regret. It seems a psychopath’s singular regret is getting caught.

As psychopathy is not a singular personality disorder under the criteria of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual fourth edition (DSM IV) created and established by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) for identifying mental and personality disorders, Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) remains the umbrella term for sociopathy with similar characteristics as psychopathy and arguments remain if the two should be separated via individual criteria.

http://c.washingtontimes.com/neighb.../24/jodi-arias-susan-smith-et-al-mini-series/

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/22/jodi-arias-trial/2011973/

Among this week's Internet scandals: TV viewers noticed that Arias took a pill of some kind while sitting at the defense table -- she suffers from migraines; they saw her passing something to a member of her defense team, who passed it to Arias' mother in the front row of the gallery -- it was a birthday card.

And it's an indicator of which way public opinion leans that the defense attorneys are escorted out of the court by a burly sheriff's deputy and Martinez goes out the front door, where his admirers wait with cellphone cameras and ask him to pose with them for photographs

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I remember hearing Samuels say that JA had overlapping personality disorders. Well that is what psychopaths have. Disorders that are overlapping.

I hope Juan follows up on that.

IMO

 

[raisincharlie]

I agree. The gas was cheaper in states other than CA why gas them up in CA?

Kelly

The saving money lie was simply that - a lie. When JM showed her her bank statement concerning purchases at Tesoro the charge for the rental car was just above it - $233.00. There is no way that computes to saving money. The whole story is bs, the rental car and gas cans were strictly to make sure no one would know she went to Arizona, specifically Mesa on June 4th. Premeditation in a nutshell.

 

[katiecoolady]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/22/jodi-arias-trial/2011973/

Among this week's Internet scandals: TV viewers noticed that Arias took a pill of some kind while sitting at the defense table -- she suffers from migraines; they saw her passing something to a member of her defense team, who passed it to Arias' mother in the front row of the gallery -- it was a birthday card.

And it's an indicator of which way public opinion leans that the defense attorneys are escorted out of the court by a burly sheriff's deputy and Martinez goes out the front door, where his admirers wait with cellphone cameras and ask him to pose with them for photographs

Sorry Kiefer (who is my friend). You got several factual errors goin on here.

A. He minimizes Jodi taking a pill for "migraines" like this is not a big deal. The story here is a prisoner is self medicating out of an orange folder...at all.

B. the ring tone was a cockadoodledoo. Yeah your donkey sounds more ironic for your purposes it's just inaccurate. I was there.

C. The vomiting woman was not "loud". I was sitting a row in front of you and closer to that side and heard nothing.

D. The juror questions were devastating to the defense. How could you not see this?

Etc etc etc

This piece is biased from the view of a burned out reporter sick of this trial. But it's not objective.

Sorry gotta give you a D minus on this one. I'm admittedly biased (translation not getting paid for an unbiased perspective) in this case but my courtroom reporting is more factual than this.

 

[Novice Seeker]

Sorry Kiefer (who is my friend). You got several factual errors goin on here.

A. He minimizes Jodi taking a pill for "migraines" like this is not a big deal. The story here is a prisoner is self medicating out of an orange folder...at all.

B. the ring tone was a cockadoodledoo. Yeah your donkey sounds more ironic for your purposes it's just inaccurate. I was there.

C. The vomiting woman was not "loud". I was sitting a row in front of you and closer to that side and heard nothing.

D. The juror questions were devastating to the defense. How could you not see this?

Etc etc etc

This piece is biased from the view of a burned out reporter sick of this trial. But it's not objective.

Sorry gotta give you a D minus on this one. I'm admittedly biased (translation not getting paid for an unbiased perspective) in this case but my courtroom reporting is more factual than this.

Glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought this article was condescending.

 

[Dmacky]

Frankie, you can hear Travis say in his own voice three times that he doesn't like Spiderman. It's from about 50:30 to 51:44 in the tape below. (Man is it HARD to stop the video from posting; the software here creates a hyperlink even when you don't want one. The only way I could stop the video from posting was to put quotes around the URL.)

I heard that too. That is the main reason I joined this forum, although I had lurked for awhile. That was my very first post. I wanted to put that video on here and point that out that if the spiderman underware story were true, he would have said something like, but I like YOU wearing them though SOMETHING, ANYTHING!!! There was absolutetly nothing about them!!! And it was a sex tape/conversation! I was very happy that at least one juror caught that, because it was one of there questions!

 

[raisincharlie]

Well, I have to say, Doc Samuels was very close to giving me a migrane

I do wonder though how come the migranes didn't seem to be much of a noticable issue until JM got a hold of Ms. Arias on the stand. Another one of those coincidences which seem to follow her like a fog...

 

[mobius99]

Does anyone have a categorical, analytical response to the concept that, ""if she planned and premeditated to kill Travis, then how is it that she knew she would have a window of time undetected in that not one, but TWO roommates would not be a problem, or interfere? What I am saying is that it would be easier to plan a murder of a single guy w/no roommates, but how would she be able to plan , and count on the fact that, the roommates would not be there during the murder , or even during the attempted clean-up of the murder? I am genuinely interessted to know your thoughts on this point.
Thanks.

The structure and content of this question is very interesting. Call me suspicious, but it reads an awful lot like a question a trial consultant might ask if she/he is testing out a strategy. jmho

 

[katiecoolady]

Glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought this article was condescending.

Snotty is one thing (but should be reserved for oped pieces IMO). This one is just filled with inaccuracies. Maybe the Republic needs to send someone else in. He's fried.

I hate saying this about Kiefer as I've known him for years but he's making snide remarks out loud about court watchers of which I am one. To me. Fried.

 

[TXredhead178]

Good morning, folks!

Looking forward to JM's continuing follow-up on jury questions w/ Dr. Samuels. I have a feeling another "gotcha" moment is coming up soon!

Over the weekend I re-watched the reading and answering of jury questions to Dr. Samuels and came away with an even stronger impression of what a shill he is for the defense. Having experienced acute stress response (fight-or-flight), ASD and mild PTSD, and having a family member experience a possible dissociative amnesia episode, any discussion of this subject matter, of course, interests me. But what the doctor described on the witness stand doesn't square with what I've experienced, and his discussion of the scientific research in these areas left me with the sense that he's not well-qualified to speak to those issues with a lot of authority.

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link yet, but I found this on the State vs Jodi Arias Facebook site. It talks about the tests Dr. Samuels could have and should have done to detect malingering re: amnesia, the limitations of the tests he did perform, and the way that he exaggerated the frequency of dissociative amnesia associated with a traumatic event. Finally, there's a section about psychopaths claiming amnesia, and how those claims should be viewed with a great deal of skepticism.

I sure hope the prosecution's expert, in it's rebuttal case, will go into these areas.

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/#!/e...8221-was-dr-samuels8217-expert-testimony,6726

 

[raisincharlie]

The structure and content of this question is very interesting. Call me suspicious, but it reads an awful lot like a question a trial consultant might ask if she/he is testing out a strategy. jmho

Possible I suppose but it seems obvious to me that if one has been paying attention, Jodi slipping in and out of that house was routine, hiding from the roomates and knowing their schedules is not a far fetched idea. She herself admits to sneaking into the house, parking her car around the corner, and being quiet so the roomates wouldn't know they were having sex. Not an analytical answer but one that has been testified to.

 

[bznbear]

As a paralegal I have spent many many active hours in courtrooms. I have worked with expert witnesses and have even been called as an expert witness. I think Dr. Samuals alternative motive was to only do his job but not to the fullest extent of his professionalism. I think if he fully believed this defense was going to work he would have made sure all his T's were crossed and all his I's were dotted. He wouldn't have left such an obvious open door for the prosecution. IMO it looks like very basic and amateur mistakes. Not the work of a 35yr veteran with trial experience. This happens a lot, when an expert doesn't fully agree with the direction the defense wants to use. I think Dr. Samuals wanted to go with the rage defense. When he was shot down he became sloppy. It's hard to prove if it was intentional. He was still professional but didn't agree fully with the PTSD diagnosis. I want to thank you for asking me the question in a mature and respectful manner.

I seriously considered him having some mild form of dementia or BPD.

 

[katiecoolady]

Ps not to be obsessing but this is the first I've heard about a birthday card JA passed to her mom and frankly find that suspicious. I was told in court from sources a lot closer that it was "papers" passed to Jodi's mom. Jodi almost never acknowledges her mother in any form in the courtroom so I gotta call BS on the birthday card issue but Kiefer reports it as fact. I'm following up on this today because if he's trying to put a minimizing positive spin on Jodi I got serious problems with that.

How about you sitting behind me last week talking out loud to another reporter about how "cute " you think Jennifer Wilmott is? Ya done gone and ticked me off now Son! . (Ice always wanted to use that "son" thing in a sentence).

 

[bznbear]

I like anything with fur. I feel a connection with them in a way that's reciprocal in some way. It's pretty amazing to me that even a wild field mouse can come to trust I won't hurt it.

Don't care much for things with scales, fins or feathers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I actually think it's adorable! I feed a packrat that lives under my deck. He comes out every evening at dusk. He's not trusting tho, because he doesn't really know where the food comes from.

Don't know if I could keep one in the house for fear of babies. We had a nest in our bathroom once. They can reproduce pretty quickly.

 

[Boodles]

I have been just lurking occasionally the past days, and didn't see court last Thursday afternoon when JM got up. But I heard he did good!!

Please tell me Samuels is done and this trial moves on to another witness today! Yes??? TIA!