Lowe's Pulls Ads From American Muslim Time Slot

[Kimberlyd125]

Christmas is the most beautiful, special time of the year in our house. It renews our spirits and reminds us of the most important things.

Our town has a Nativity in front of City Hall.

I don't buy anything that says "Happy Holidays". I make sure our cards and paper say MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I shop at stores that do the same.
I say the words. Im not ashamed or afraid I will offend anyone when I tell them Merry Christmas. Because I believe. If they don't, so be it.

A nativity downtown or a Merry Christmas greeting will not hurt a soul. If you don't like it, ignore it!

 

[Etilema]

Christmas is the most beautiful, special time of the year in our house. It renews our spirits and reminds us of the most important things.

Our town has a Nativity in front of City Hall.

I don't buy anything that says "Happy Holidays". I make sure our cards and paper say MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I shop at stores that do the same.
I say the words. Im not ashamed or afraid I will offend anyone when I tell them Merry Christmas. Because I believe. If they don't, so be it.

A nativity downtown or a Merry Christmas greeting will not hurt a soul. If you don't like it, ignore it!

As a religious Jew, I appreciate and approve of your position. Because when people send us cards with pictures of partridges in pear trees and the words "Happy Holidays", we know which "holiday" they are actually thinking of. Same thing for "holiday" store flyers full of pictures of red and green gifts and holly leaves.

"Happy holidays" is a nice attempt to include non-Christians, but this is simply not the time of year when we have most of our holidays or even our most significant holidays (we have tons, with autumn and spring being the biggest holiday seasons).

I do vicariously enjoy the beauty of Christmas decor and the upbeat attitude of many people at this time of year, but it simply is not something I participate in, myself, so I won't feel bad if people mention Christmas.

In fact, non-participation can be a benefit. One Christmas Eve, as I leisurely browsed the great sales at Kohl's, a woman looked at me and exclaimed, "How can you be so relaxed?!" She was cracked up by my simple reply, "I'm Jewish."

 

[Nova]

As a religious Jew, I appreciate and approve of your position. Because when people send us cards with pictures of partridges in pear trees and the words "Happy Holidays", we know which "holiday" they are actually thinking of. Same thing for "holiday" store flyers full of pictures of red and green gifts and holly leaves.

"Happy holidays" is a nice attempt to include non-Christians, but this is simply not the time of year when we have most of our holidays or even our most significant holidays (we have tons, with autumn and spring being the biggest holiday seasons).

I do vicariously enjoy the beauty of Christmas decor and the upbeat attitude of many people at this time of year, but it simply is not something I participate in, myself, so I won't feel bad if people mention Christmas.

In fact, non-participation can be a benefit. One Christmas Eve, as I leisurely browsed the great sales at Kohl's, a woman looked at me and exclaimed, "How can you be so relaxed?!" She was cracked up by my simple reply, "I'm Jewish."

With all due respect, Etilema, I think your view is too cynical. We have friends who are Christian, Jewish, atheist and Muslim, some of them very religious and some of them hardly at all. If we buy pre-printed cards, we buy ones with a non-denominational sentiment not because we are secretly thinking of our own holiday, but because we genuinely want each of our loved ones to enjoy the holiday s/he celebrates in the manner s/he prefers.

(I realize Chanukah is not a major holiday on the Jewish calendar, but I don't know a single Jew who doesn't celebrate the season in some manner, even if s/he does so in a secular way.)

Some of our relatives are like Kimberly in that they send out religious cards focused entirely on the sacred meaning of Christmas; we do not find this offensive. But it is clear that such people are more concerned with THEIR traditions and THEIR thinking than OURS. Rather like buying a present you want instead of getting something the gift-receiver will enjoy.

No crime, of course, but not exactly representative of the generosity of spirit that Jesus is supposed to inspire.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

With all due respect, Etilema, I think your view is too cynical. We have friends who are Christian, Jewish, atheist and Muslim, some of them very religious and some of them hardly at all. If we buy pre-printed cards, we buy ones with a non-denominational sentiment not because we are secretly thinking of our own holiday, but because we genuinely want each of our loved ones to enjoy the holiday s/he celebrates in the manner s/he prefers.

(I realize Chanukah is not a major holiday on the Jewish calendar, but I don't know a single Jew who doesn't celebrate the season in some manner, even if s/he does so in a secular way.)

Some of our relatives are like Kimberly in that they send out religious cards focused entirely on the sacred meaning of Christmas; we do not find this offensive. But it is clear that such people are more concerned with THEIR traditions and THEIR thinking than OURS. Rather like buying a present you want instead of getting something the gift-receiver will enjoy.

No crime, of course, but not exactly representative of the generosity of spirit that Jesus is supposed to inspire.

GMAB Nova.
I'd rather keep Christ in Christmas.

If the recipient doesn't like the card, they are welcome to throw it away.

I don't know anybody who will say a Christmas card ruined their "holiday".

 

[Nova]

GMAB Nova.
I'd rather keep Christ in Christmas.

If the recipient doesn't like the card, they are welcome to throw it away.

I don't know anybody who will say a Christmas card ruined their "holiday".

I don't know anybody who has said that either. It certainly isn't what I said.

What I said is that sending a card that reflects your view of Christmas instead of that of the receiver is like buying a gift that you would like rather than something the gift receiver might want.

Your choice, of course. But not something we normally applaud.

 

[Fairy1]

Most people on here have ancestors from foreign countries. Our likes and dislikes are as divurgent as the countries our ancestors came from and, I, for one am glad of it. It would be a terrible thing to be cut out of the same stamp as everyone else. Freedom of speech, religion, and thought are very precious to me. If everyone in this country had huddled together and obeyed old King George there never would have been an American Revolution in which brother did fight against brother, and whole families were torn apart - all for those freedoms which some don't feel everyone should have. Then there is the Civil War fought for vastly different rights and freedoms, and I'm proud to say my ancestors fought in almost every war in this country - they died so I could think the way I want to and say what I have on my mind, whether in correct politicaleeze or not.

Diversity of speech and thought is what made America great, not UNAmerican. Cookie cutter people will finish off this once great country quicker than opposing thoughts and ideas. In fact, I see signs of it already.

BBM

See, this is what confuses me. :waitasec: I do agree with you, but taken a step further, is it not just as tragic to assume that an entire group of people should be painted with the same brush based on nothing more than their religion or ancestry?

They ARE Americans. As an American, I have to believe you wouldn't want to be lumped into any category. Would you? Would anyone?

 

[Fairy1]

I don't know anybody who has said that either. It certainly isn't what I said.

What I said is that sending a card that reflects your view of Christmas instead of that of the receiver is like buying a gift that you would like rather than something the gift receiver might want.

Your choice, of course. But not something we normally applaud.

I totally see your POV, Nova. And I see Kimberlyd's POV, as well.

There is a lovely lady in my world who does some work for me year-round. I'm fairly certain (tho not positive) that she is a Jehovah's Witness but, for several years at Christmastime, I have given her a monetary bonus. I don't believe she and her family celebrate Christmas, but she knows that we do and she has never complained about the extra $$$, nor has she felt compelled to tell me of her possibly differing beliefs or that it's offensive. I can't speak for her but, in my mind, this illustrates a mutual respect for one another's beliefs.

Personally, I'm no fan of the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, but I adore this lady as an individual and I enjoy having an opportunity to show my appreciation for her at a time that is important to me and my family. I should add that she also has a family and I do believe those extra bucks are helpful to them.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't know anybody who has said that either. It certainly isn't what I said.

What I said is that sending a card that reflects your view of Christmas instead of that of the receiver is like buying a gift that you would like rather than something the gift receiver might want.

Your choice, of course. But not something we normally applaud.

So I'm supposed to make a list of people, figure out who believes what, buy 4 or 5 different types of cards and send each a card that reflects their beliefs? Nope.
The card is coming from a Christian home. It will reflect that.

Like I said, if the recipient does not like the card, they can throw it out.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I totally see your POV, Nova. And I see Kimberlyd's POV, as well.

There is a lovely lady in my world who does some work for me year-round. I'm fairly certain (tho not positive) that she is a Jehovah's Witness but, for several years at Christmastime, I have given her a monetary bonus. I don't believe she and her family celebrate Christmas, but she knows that we do and she has never complained about the extra $$$, nor has she felt compelled to tell me of her possibly differing beliefs or that it's offensive. I can't speak for her but, in my mind, this illustrates a mutual respect for one another's beliefs.

Personally, I'm no fan of the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, but I adore this lady as an individual and I enjoy having an opportunity to show my appreciation for her at a time that is important to me and my family. I should add that she also has a family and I do believe those extra bucks are helpful to them.

My Grandmother had a sitter that was Jehovah's Witness. We loved her.

But, we did have to tell her at one point to not push her beliefs during the day. My Grandmother loved to listen to Southern Gospel CD's and read her bible often.
Mrs. P would sometimes try to "preach" her beliefs.

It kind of worried us a bit because my Grandmother had a tad bit of dementia. We just didn't want her to get confused.

We also gave Mrs. P a bonus for Christmas.

 

[Kimster]

You guys are having a very nice discussion on here, but it is getting way off topic. Let's rein it in please. I hesitate to have to moderate this discussion though cuz y'all are doing quite well with your off topic thoughts!

Anyway, remember what the thread is about from here on out. :santa:

 

[Fairy1]

I'm just sayin' - we should all appreciate one another's beliefs and cultures. We shouldn't feel it necessary to adopt or practice other's beliefs, but we should be big enough and comfortable enough in our own to embrace all as part of our American culture.

I don't feel Lowe's has demonstrated such tolerance in pulling their advertising from this show. While I totally support their right to do as they wish, it saddens me to see them totally cave to ONE particularly judgmental group of "Americans."

And I sincerely hope not to be counted amongst those who have been so small-mindedly judgmental against one segment of American people.

Diversity is not about stereotyping.

 

[raeann]

I don't know anybody who has said that either. It certainly isn't what I said.

What I said is that sending a card that reflects your view of Christmas instead of that of the receiver is like buying a gift that you would like rather than something the gift receiver might want.

Your choice, of course. But not something we normally applaud.

Sorry....but I see this differently....if I received a Kwanza card, or Hanukkah or any other religious/cultural holiday card from a friend or co-worker I would love it! It would be a way of their sharing their lives with me and showing confidence and trust in me as a fair and open minded friend. I would NEVER expect them to go out and buy and address and send a Christian card to me for any reason. A card or letter that reflects themselves IS a wonderful gift to me.

That is the same reasoning that I don't object to Lowe's actions. They like everyone else in this FREE country are allowed to follow what they believe and want. Just as we would never want to force the Americans ON THE SHOW to believe or act under our control.....we should not restrict the freedom of a business to NOT sponsor any specific program. Now if they were firing workers or refusing applications to Muslims...that would be totally a different thing....however, we have eye witness reports posted here that prove that NOT to be the case.

jmo

 

[not_my_kids]

I think if Lowe's wants show their *ss this way, that's their right. They just need to remember that Dearborn (where AAM is shot) is almost 1/3 Muslim. And they need to buy hammers, nails and paint too. I'm sure Home Depot and all the smaller hardware stores are grateful for all the help that Lowe's gave them this year and probably next, before all of this dies down. As soon as Lowe's has to close the Allen Park or Southgate location, they will have a huge public apology, most people will forget the faux pas, and life and commerce will continue as usual.

 

[Knot4u2no]

I would just like to point out that Christmas has not always been an American tradition, at least not when it was illegal in Puritan New England.

Christmas in Puritan New England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russell

 

[Nova]

(Deleted. Posted before I saw Kimster's instruction to stick to original topic.)

 

[rossva]

While watching the Cowboys / Bucs game on the NFL Network last night, I noticed that there were quite a few ads for the Amercan Muslims show, and I also notice that immeadiately after each one there was a Home Depot commercial. Coincidence?

 

[ziggy]

Not a coincidence! I still think even if it was a religious reason - say, they feel they don't want to support any link to Islam because they are Christian and they simply don't have the same beliefs; that should be OK. If we are going to be tolerant of Muslims beliefs then we have to be tolerant of Christians. New Flash: these two religions are quite opposed to each other. Maybe Lowe's thought the show would "expose" Muslims in American and in their view it was sanitized or propagandized. If a Muslim owned business decided to pull ads during a Christian show, we would tout their religious freedom to do that and told to "be tolerant" of diversity. It has to go both ways.

 

[ziggy]

There is a prevailing attitude that maybe even moderate Muslims believe that Sharia law is correct, do hate gays, demean women and that even if they wanted to scream that is a lie from the rooftops, they are afraid because they would put themselves in danger from retaliation by other Muslims. Take the St. Louis taxi driver who was attacked and a Star of David was carved into his back in retaliation for a pro Jewish poem. And then there are the honor killings that have happened to seemingly Americanized families.

There is no way to prove the moderate Muslims do not have these radical thoughts. Only time will tell. It is a burden they most certainly will have to overcome no thanks to the radicals, but they must - they must if any of us are to be safe from the radical ideas and theology of hate. They must lead the charge. Maybe this show is a start? But having concerns about the proliferation of a religion that hates you enough to kill you without blinking an eye is not completely unfounded.

Warning: off topic paragraph but related to religious diversity problems:
Hey, BTW this war is going on in my family. My two cousins who are sisters won't speak anymore. One married a Jewish man and has two sons, one of whom is an Orthodox Jew and both lived in Israel (the youngest finally made it home to the States last week after marrying a girl from Russia, who could not get a U.S. Visa and they were stuck in Israel). The other has a half black son who converted to Islam and she, his mom, also converted. She's a very ginger muslim. The Jewish son Mom/sister was worried sick about her boys when they were in Israel. The Muslim cousin acknowledges there is a hatred towards Jews and is as moderate (I claim she borders on fake) a Muslim as you could get and she won't denounce it. BTW the mom of the Jewish boys is a Christian. The Jewish boys grew up very close to their Muslim cousin (boy). They now can't get past the religious thing. It is more complicated but that is it in a nutshell. Cats and Dogs.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Not a coincidence! I still think even if it was a religious reason - say, they feel they don't want to support any link to Islam because they are Christian and they simply don't have the same beliefs; that should be OK. If we are going to be tolerant of Muslims beliefs then we have to be tolerant of Christians. New Flash: these two religions are quite opposed to each other. Maybe Lowe's thought the show would "expose" Muslims in American and in their view it was sanitized or propagandized. If a Muslim owned business decided to pull ads during a Christian show, we would tout their religious freedom to do that and told to "be tolerant" of diversity. It has to go both ways.

I have found that intolerance towards Christians is becoming more and more accepted. Christians are supposed to just shut up and go away. We are supposed to be tolerant but the mud that is slung our way is just fine.

It's sad. But it's true.

I'm all for religious tolerance.
I just wish my beliefs were tolerated as well.

 

[Nova]

Not a coincidence! I still think even if it was a religious reason - say, they feel they don't want to support any link to Islam because they are Christian and they simply don't have the same beliefs; that should be OK. If we are going to be tolerant of Muslims beliefs then we have to be tolerant of Christians. New Flash: these two religions are quite opposed to each other. Maybe Lowe's thought the show would "expose" Muslims in American and in their view it was sanitized or propagandized. If a Muslim owned business decided to pull ads during a Christian show, we would tout their religious freedom to do that and told to "be tolerant" of diversity. It has to go both ways.

Ziggy, the original link quoted Lowe's as saying it pulled the ads in response to complaints that the show did not portray Muslims in a sufficiently negative light. So while Lowe's is acting within its legal rights, the corporation is essentially siding with religious bigots.

Unless and until somebody can show that the original citation was in error, trying to dress up the issue as Lowe's expressing its freedom of religion or bowing to the law of supply and demand are simply disingenuous.