Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[Kamille]

Okay we've skipped right over the reasons for his sexual obsessions and delusions. Of course.

Now we're minimizing the Karla stuff as "a bad idea"? Maybe he wanted attention but the good doctor really doesn't know why he did it?

HOLY CARP!! How about for the SAME REASON he started hyping and advertising cat and human killing videos before actually going out and doing the deed, filming and uploading. ATTENTION.

What kind of doctor is this on the stand?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
When #Magnotta denied it was him spreading rumour, understands he's doing it, making it up?

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Witness says yes, #Magnotta is capable of saying it was a bad decision.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta met with Toronto Sun reporter to talk about rumour re Homolka. He understands he was one who started it. Was stupid, he said

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta, however, recognizes he made a bad decision with that rumour, Allard says. He said it was "stupid."

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
But when he did it in 2007, it's like he put things online to show he was harassed. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta put it on line to provoke people, to show that he was harassed, Allard says

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Jury wants morning break. #Magnotta

 

[BorgQueen]

FINALLY! HE started the Homolka rumour. It is out before the jury! Now, to link this to his use of her sister and mother-in-law on the mailed packages...


ETA: Of course it was BAD IDEA. It got him attention, but it got him negative attention and he regretted it. He went on to make the same error of judgement with the cat videos. And the murder of Jun Lin...

 

[Kamille]

I think the only person who foresaw the danger that LM would become is the judge in the original trial back in 2005 who ordered him to stay off the internet during his probationary period. He should have been ordered to stay off for life.

Can't believe he called CSIS while in the group home. Can't believe CSIS didn't have a file a mile long on him. These are exactly the kind of people they need to keep an eye on while cruising the internet. He got caught up in all the fantasy and conspiracy that is so rampant on the internet now. He could be anything he wanted to be on there. He had a whole different life going on there. Not a good place for people with mental illness. As we are seeing time and time again lately.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

It is unfortunate that this recurring theme of sexual abuse was seemingly never explored further by his doctors. Indeed, it seems like they just listened to him rant, rolled their eyes, and drugged him up. Not very good doctors, IMO. This is a MAJOR problem, and not just with Magnotta, but all sexual abuse victims. This guy, like so many others, was practically ignored by people who should have been helping him. Instead he was just given drugs and sent on his way. Whether it really happened or not, it seems he actually believed that it did. It is one thing that, according to his medical records, is consistent. That nobody tried to help, imo, is outrageous.

I touched on this earlier with regards to his own sexuality and whether he is bisexual or gay. That is a really tough world to navigate for young people, especially during the time period when he grew up (I think it's better now with much more acceptance and awareness). For someone with his mental illness, confused about his sexuality and possibly sexually abused and bullied as well, that can be pretty damaging. Then he supposedly figures out his place but it's with pimps, strippers, *advertiser censored* and the escort business. Tough going for sure. And definitely something his doctors should have picked up on and helped him with.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 12m12 minutes ago
Allard thinks #Magnotta spread the rumours because he was complaining of harassment, felt nobody believed him so tried to provoke it.

Really? I guess you could say this about everything he did? He tried to provoke people to harass him so that people would believe he was being harassed? This makes no sense and she knows it. She's a hired gun and she's an embarrassment to her profession with comments like this.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Break over. Judge is back. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Next, Manuel Lopez. Ex. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says he comes up a lot. Met in 2010, hired #Magnotta as escort. Was nice at first but turned abusive.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Manny forced #Magnotta to do a lot of sexual activities he didn't want to do, to stop taking meds.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 2m2 minutes ago
Jury back. Allard now talking about Manny. #Magnotta told her Manny was Manuel Lopez who was a client who became abusive.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Back in #Magnotta with tales of Manny.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta said Manny insisted he stopped taking his medication in the fall of 2010.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 1m1 minute ago
Manny, or Emanuel Lopez, comes up throughout Allard's report. She says #Magnotta told her they met in 2010 as an escort/client.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 53s53 seconds ago
#Magnotta told Allard Manny was nice enough at first but soon became abusive and forced Magnotta into sexual acts (some mentioned earlier).

 

[Kamille]

Here we go with the whole "Manny" excuse for the cat killing videos....

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

FINALLY - HERE'S MANNY:

https://twitter.com/sleeCJAD

*Forgive me if this is already here. I just got home.*

 

[BorgQueen]

I would like to see this 'Manny' fellow as a witness. Even if it is just to prove his existence and deny what Magnotta has said about him.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Kamille's post:

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 1m1 minute ago
Manny, or Emanuel Lopez, comes up throughout Allard's report. She says #Magnotta told her they met in 2010 as an escort/client.

NOTE: Emanuel Lopez has the same initials as "Emile Lacroix". Same person?

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Asking about Manny re: Dr. Watts report. Crown objects: leading. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 56s56 seconds ago
Feb 21, 2014 interview: revisited topic of videos of animal killings. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness wanted to know if Manny existed for real or psychotic element. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says believed Manny existed. Hard to say what role he played, how present he was, or linked to psychosis. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Allard for a long time wanted to know if Manny really existed or if #magnotta made him up

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 51s51 seconds ago
#Magnotta says it was Manny who forced him to do the animal killing videos, otherwise he'd kill #Magnotta.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta claims Manny forced him to kill the animals and make the videos, otherwise he would beat him and call police on him

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 32s33 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta consulted the two lawyers about the abuse, wanted to file police complaint.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Defence says #Magnotta sent list of abuse to lawyers, but when you look at Mt Sinai report, what does he say about this?

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says no, #Magnotta insists he was raped and violated by Manny, kidnapped, drugged and people didn't believe him.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
For #magnotta, everything that happened with Manny was real, Allard said. He didn't believe he was in midst of psychosis

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Conclusion? Witness says #Magnotta still believes it all happened.

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
So even when police didn't believe him? Witness says #Magnotta still convinced kidnapped, drugged, hospitalized against his will.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Conclusion? If it really happened? Or psychosis? #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta does not believe he was in a psychosis with Manny. He insists that everything he says happened with Manny actually happened.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says patients can take elements from real life but interpret them differently. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says she believes #Magnotta was in a situation and interpreted it in a paranoid manner, made it worse in his mind.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Allard said #magnotta's psychosis could cause him to exaggerate things, and perhaps what he told Miami police was

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
Allard's conclusion is that #Magnotta was in certain situations but interpreted them differently, was made worse because of psychosis.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 55s55 seconds ago
#Magnotta was paranoid because sought by animal protection people and was in chaotic situation

 

[Kamille]

I'm starting to see real manipulation here. LM is a bad liar. I see him all over this defense.

Which is a shame, because it makes me feel bad to be so cynical about someone with obvious mental illness. But I can't help it. I don't believe most of what I'm reading. I feel like the public and the jury are being manipulated by LM and Dr. Allard. Not sure if I feel Dr. Allard has been manipulated. I think she's smarter than that. It's just her job and an "expert defense witness" to pretend I suppose. (Plus I've seen some of her other ridiculous conclusions in other cases)

MOO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Is it just me, or does his 'psychosis' tend to come and go?

:thinking:

 

[maxfactor]

I think this is a pretty smooth move on the defense's part, they get all his medical history without the Crown being able to cross examine the Psychiatrist's, AND LM gets to tell his story without the Crown being able to cross examine him. pppfffttt

 

[BorgQueen]

Is it just me, or does his 'psychosis' tend to come and go?

:thinking:

Psychosis does generally tend to do that; however, his seems to come and go depending on whether or not he is in trouble.
Most of the time in between these periods, he seems like a classic case of BPD. Seeking attention, sometimes negatively, and reacting BIG and exaggerating, etc.
Basically, the consequences of his actions appears to bring on the psychosis most of the time.

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 49s50 seconds ago
Witness says btwn July 2010 & arrest in June 2012,#Magnotta wasn't seeing psych,was alone,didn't see grandmom,so was chaotic period for him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta felt followed in TO, govnt after him, phone monitored.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 6m6 minutes ago
Allard said #Magnotta wasn't taking meds when he decided to move to Mtl from TO to start new life in 2011. Felt police were after him

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta moved to Pt St Charles in Feb 2011. Had clients as escort, pseudonym Mike.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 6m6 minutes ago
At first #Magnotta lived in the Point and had some clients. Spent a lot of time on Internet. Things were ok, Allard says

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
#magnotta felt he was being harassed on Internet, which was partly true, but he got involved in it too, Allard says

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta moved 3x in Mtl, had no radio or TV because thought TV put things in his head.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 5m5 minutes ago
Still going through #Magnotta's personal history, Allard is now at the point where he moved to Mtl "to begin a new life."

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
After murder of 2 cats, #magnotta was hearing more voices and became scared, Allard says.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta's last mtg with psych was Aug 2010, so with no meds or treatment, psychotic symptoms started coming back.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta continued working as escort but saw fewer clients.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
Allard: #Magnotta moved to Mtl to start anew. His hallucinations got worse, felt he was being followed. Moved 3x, changed phone number often

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta had two cats at the time. Gave one to the python and drowned the other one. Made videos of it.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Dec 2011, #Magnotta went to London, UK. Wanted to meet clients, impulsive trip.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta said he was mad about this secretly recorded interview with West which ended up with #Magnotta being booted out from his hotel.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta said he wrote email to West's paper to complain, witness says.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta told her the goal of email was to scare the reporter and to make him leave him alone.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 38s39 seconds ago
#magnotta told Allard he did it because he wanted to scare West

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says #Magnotta warned the next time he made a video it would involve humans and he'd send a copy of it.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 32s32 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta was inspired by Basic Instinct, used line from movie in email.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 59s59 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta was more anxious at the time, that he was ashamed of what he did.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 37s37 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta told her it was a lack of judgement.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 25s25 seconds ago
According to Allard, #Magnotta never had a plan to kill humans, he only sent the email to scare the reporter into leaving him alone.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 50s50 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta told her he never should have done it and wasn't something he planned.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 37s37 seconds ago
#Magnotta said it was stupid, he should never have written the email. He just didn't think it through, Allard says

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 1m1 minute ago
Although he wrote about moving from killing kittens to people, Allard says #Magnotta says he was not planning at all to ever kill a person.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 49s49 seconds ago
So how does schizophrenia fit into this? Witness says #Magnotta at this time doing less and less well, affecting his judgement.

 

[BorgQueen]

Oh, here we go! Never planned to kill a human. BS.

 

[Kamille]

I think this is a pretty smooth move on the defense's part, they get all his medical history without the Crown being able to cross examine the Psychiatrist's, AND LM gets to tell his story without the Crown being able to cross examine him. pppfffttt

Was just going to ask whether we've ever seen this in a trial before. LM's entire testimony without having to take the stand or be subjected to cross. Plus the testimony of his doctors without them having to be subjected to cross either. So how does the Crown cross this doctor other than to try to show that she's just the mouthpiece for the defendant and that she doesn't have a clue what was going on in his mind at any given time?

So it looks like he wants to own up to everything and minimize it all as part of his mental illness. Just wipe the whole slate clean. Umm...I don't think so LM. You need to be held accountable for ALL of it.

I really believe that he thinks he'll be out on meds within the year to pick up where he left off. As long as he promises to behave himself this time and stay on his meds.

:scared:

MOO