GUILTY MA - Abigail Hanna for kidnap, assault of 2yo girl, Hamilton, 2015

[krig101]

Maybe it's just reflex to smile when you're having your picture taken. I see a lot of smiling mug shots and assume that must account for some of them. Especially if she truly doesn't understand what's going on.

Agreed
It's just a shock because its such a happy normal smile. I really thought it was an ID photo at first! But mental illness would definitely explain it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Zuri]

I used to work as an RN in an ER and we had an emergency psych crisis department adjacent to the ER. I am now wondering if she told the staff that she had taken the toddler, which would have resulted in them calling LE. As ER staff, we were mandatory reporters if we suspected child abuse, so HIPAA was waived. Also, the ER was probably aware of reports of the missing toddler and to be on the lookout for a toddler matching the description and photo. IMO

Disclaimer: At least this protocol when I worked in the ER. All hospitals in every state had to have protocols in place by 1995? And I worked on/helped write the protocol for the State of Delaware way back when. It was adopted by every hospital in Delaware and was used as a template in other States that requested ours. I am sure the protocol has been amended many times over since then as laws have changed and become more defined.

I am also wondering if her family took her to the ER to be evaluated if they noted she was behaving erratically, threatening suicide or claimed to be hearing voices. Most treating psychiatrists and/or family physicians would recommend going to the ER to be evaluated under those circumstances.

 

[Zuri]

Maybe it's just reflex to smile when you're having your picture taken. I see a lot of smiling mug shots and assume that must account for some of them. Especially if she truly doesn't understand what's going on.

The mug shot makes me also wonder if she was in a manic or dissociative state, prompting someone to take her to the ER. ITA with your post.

 

[mom2four717]

Abigail looks very unwell in the video.
My mind is muddled now. It was all so clear when she was a deliberate villian.

My heart goes out to Abi and Lyndon. I am holding all in the light.

 

[Rayemonde]

One of the charges against Abigail Hanna: assault and battery with dangerous weapon - a cigarette

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/11/23/hamilton-child-kidnapping-abigail-hanna/

Well! We shall see. It was an organised and premeditated crime, but psychotic individuals can sometimes commit such crimes. I guess the hospital will get Abigail on some antipsychotic meds and then see how she goes on.

 

[pappa rob]

Abigail looks very unwell in the video.
My mind is muddled now. It was all so clear when she was a deliberate villian.

My heart goes out to Abi and Lyndon. I am holding all in the light.

It's never been clear for me, I'm still trying to catch up even though I've followed this from the beginning. None of this make sense, of course most of what I hear on most of the cases here doesn't. This sounded like mental illness from the start, but who knows.

 

[Betty P]

I haven't been following this as closely as many of you, but in viewing the video of her arraignment, I'm not seeing anything to suggest catatonia or psychosis.

Even though she's standing still, her movements and facial changes (eyes, head movement, etc.) indicate she's very much aware of what's going on around her - other people's discussions and movements. She's very alert, listening very carefully to everything that's being said and done, sometimes responding by raising or lowering her eyes, lifting an eyebrow, moving her head.

IIRC, catatonic people don't do that. They don't usually respond to external stimuli. Psychotic/hallucinatory people aren't paying that close attention to outside stimuli, either, instead they respond to their own internal thoughts.

She also looks very healthy. Good color, wearing makeup that is skillfully applied, etc.

I hope they do more testing, get some second opinions.

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't know about it being an organized crime. Although Abi may have planned "something" which is why she came to get Lyndon in the first place, I don't think she had a plan, and from that point on everything seems disorganized to me.

 

[pappa rob]

I haven't been following this as closely as many of you, but in viewing the video of her arraignment, I'm not seeing anything to suggest catatonia or psychosis.

Even though she's standing still, her movements and facial changes (eyes, head movement, etc.) indicate she's very much aware of what's going on around her - other people's discussions and movements. She's very alert, listening very carefully to everything that's being said and done, sometimes responding by raising or lowering her eyes, lifting an eyebrow, moving her head.

IIRC, catatonic people don't do that. They don't usually respond to external stimuli. Psychotic/hallucinatory people aren't paying that close attention to outside stimuli, either, instead they respond to their own internal thoughts.

She also looks very healthy. Good color, wearing makeup that is skillfully applied, etc.

I hope they do more testing, get some second opinions.

Having a DD who got away with it for years, you can't tell. I had suspicions but only that. It took over a week for a doctor to tell, some people are good at covering. The signs are different for everyone, along with an Ex and a stepchild. I'm a old hand at this.

 

[bluesneakers]

Having a DD who got away with it for years, you can't tell. I had suspicions but only that. It took over a week for a doctor to tell, some people are good at covering. The signs are different for everyone, along with an Ex and a stepchild. I'm a old hand at this.

Another old hand here. People with mental illnesses often get good at covering them up for survival reasons. I don't mean anyone is about to kill them, I mean for day-to-day survival they have to hide it. If she does have an illness she might have had years worth of experience keeping it covered up.

 

[alreetlike]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llege-dropout-got-engaged-just-weeks-ago.html


Hanna, who is being held without bail, was educated at an $18,000-a-year private Christian Preparatory school in Connecticut, a report suggests.

She grew up in a family home worth more than $1million, according to Zillow, before attending Gordon College - but a spokesman told the*Boston Globe*she left after just one semester.*

Oh, thank goodness the Daily Mail have given us their favourite and most crucial information.

 

[Betty P]

Having a DD who got away with it for years, you can't tell. I had suspicions but only that. It took over a week for a doctor to tell, some people are good at covering. The signs are different for everyone, along with an Ex and a stepchild. I'm a old hand at this.

Of course, there are ways that people with mental illness can learn to cover it up around family, friends and co-workers. Trained professional psychiatrists who specialize in organic mental illness can discern the difference through careful questioning, observation and testing. It takes an experienced psychiatrist, but it can be done.

ETA: The case I'm reminded of in these situations is Kenneth Bianchi, one of the Hillside Stranglers. After he was apprehended, he claimed to have multiple personality disorder. He was able to convince at least one therapist, but someone more skilled at evaluating mental illness was able to prove he didn't.

http://www.dissociation.com/index/published/bianchi.txt

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I wonder if Abi's breaking and entering caused mom and dad to wake several times in the night. Somebody a while back questioned why they'd be up at 3am to look in on the kids. My kids are 5.5 and 1 and my husband wakes up every. single. night to check in on them. Though if my DH had heard a noise, he would have checked the house repeatedly and the kids would be brought to our bed (a queen size...with cats. Cozy...). So I do wonder if mom or dad was startled by something but figured it was the kids and just wrote it off. It also gives me a little chill thinking Abi was in the house during that time and waited a while before she continued her plan.

 

[trixandhoney]

The doctor who evaluated AH (and declared her mentally incompetent) has over 20 years of experience as an independent forensic psychologist. So IMO, we can trust that her opinion was medically sound.

ETA: especially since the doctor said AH also has a history of suicide attempts and black-outs.

 

[Betty P]

I wonder if Abi's breaking and entering caused mom and dad to wake several times in the night. Somebody a while back questioned why they'd be up at 3am to look in on the kids. My kids are 5.5 and 1 and my husband wakes up every. single. night to check in on them. Though if my DH had heard a noise, he would have checked the house repeatedly and the kids would be brought to our bed (a queen size...with cats. Cozy...). So I do wonder if mom or dad was startled by something but figured it was the kids and just wrote it off. It also gives me a little chill thinking Abi was in the house during that time and waited a while before she continued her plan.

Another good point. If this young woman is truly mentally ill and experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations, it would have been very difficult for her to break into a home and kidnap a young child without waking and alarming the parents. From news media photos, the Albers home doesn't appear to be a large home. The child's bedroom was probably right down the hall. Any excessive noise, talking, etc. would likely have been heard by the parents.

To break in and kidnap the child without waking the parents would have required this young woman to be focused very carefully on her surroundings and her movements, as well as the child's. That doesn't seem to fit with her now claiming she doesn't know where she is and hearing voices that tell her not to talk to the police and the court psychologist.

 

[Betty P]

The doctor who evaluated AH (and declared her mentally incompetent) has over 20 years of experience as an independent forensic psychologist. So IMO, we can trust that her opinion was medically sound.

ETA: especially since the doctor said AH also has a history of suicide attempts and black-outs.

In these cases, a second opinion is always a good idea. It sounds as though that's what the court is going to do - conduct further evaluation. I'm glad the psychologist suggested that.

No doubt, it will be a tough case. It always is when defendants have a great deal of money to spend on their own defense. I'm just glad she didn't kill Lyndon and can only hope she's prevented from doing harm to others in the future.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

Another good point. If this young woman is truly mentally ill and experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations, it would have been very difficult for her to break into a home and kidnap a young child without waking and alarming the parents. From news media photos, the Albers home doesn't appear to be a large home. The child's bedroom was probably right down the hall. Any excessive noise, talking, etc. would likely have been heard by the parents.

To break in and kidnap the child without waking the parents would have required this young woman to be focused very carefully on her surroundings and her movements, as well as the child's. That doesn't seem to fit with her now claiming she doesn't know where she is and hearing voices that tell her not to talk to the police and the court psychologist.

If the child knew her and liked her, she could have willingly went along with her. Ugg. Another chill thinking about that. I'm very curious to know what the parents have to say about her and whether or not they could detect there was something off about her. I think I read that they said she wasn't fired but wasn't available enough to be a full time sitter. This could be true, but I would still be interested to know what they thought of her (or maybe what the kids told them about her), from those few times she babysat.

 

[Rayemonde]

Oh, thank goodness the Daily Mail have given us their favourite and most crucial information.

Hahaha, I thought that too


When I said that the crime was "organised", I meant that Abi presumably decided in advance to abduct the child, went to the house in the dead of night when she knew no one would stop her, managed to break in and take the child without waking anybody (she knew how to get in and was able to do it quietly), took her somewhere no one would see her (did she drive her there, I wonder?), presumably kept her there for a while and burnt her with cigarettes etc, then took her to the road and left her there, again without anyone seeing and stopping her. So she was aware and in control enough to stay hidden from people, or at least act normally enough that no one saw her acting strangely or abusing the child (because if someone had seen they would have stopped her or called LE).

People who have an acute psychotic episode and commit crimes like this usually don't hide them so well, IMO. They are either unaware of the people around them or don't care that they are there, because they think they are doing nothing wrong. I'm thinking of people who commit awful crimes like beheading a stranger on a greyhound bus full of people, or killing a child in front of other people and then just sitting around until they are arrested.

People with paranoid schizophrenia and suffering from delusions can sometimes commit more organised crimes, though, like the guy who murdered people because he thought they were vampires and then took off to hide out in Mexico. Or Andrea Yates , who waited until everyone was out before drowning her children. These crimes usually have some logic about them, even though it is twisted logic (eg it's a good thing to kill my children because I'm saving them from the devil, but I know other people won't understand that so I'll wait until they go out, or I know I'll be arrested if I kill these people but I know it's right because they're actually vampires, so I'll make sure no one sees me do it and then hide out in Mexico).

MOO.

 

[trixandhoney]

More info in this story (details leading to her arrest):
http://www.whdh.com/story/30588298/...-abducting-hamilton-toddler-held-without-bail

 

[ILOKAL]

I think the only thing we know for sure is she entered the house (we don't know when), left with the child, shaved her head, burned her (up thread that was being questioned), took off her clothes and left her several miles away. Do we actually know that she purposefully stayed hidden or even when it was she dropped Lyndon off? There are a lot of blanks that need to be filled in, IMO, and we've been told very little.

IMO, when it comes to severe psychiatric illness, there is no cookie-cutter "type". Each person has experienced their own prodrome leading up to their psychotic break with reality and any collateral information provided to professionals by those closest to her will help with an accurate diagnosis.