Found Deceased MA - Achim Bailey, 23, told parents he was going to a bar, Springfield, Hampden County, 11 Jan 2019

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In theory, so whoever had the phone in their possession was probably nervous that it will ping to it's location and be a possible suspect.
IMO
A person who may have killed someone will not try to sell a phone that is connected to the murder. Someone may have found the phone on the ground and didn't realize it was connected to a missing person. They then tried to sell it. Once they realized it was connected to a missing person they wanted to get rid of it.
 
so what if AB got mugged and his phone was stolen. The mugger wants to turn the phone into cash so he looks to sell it to a fence....or maybe to someone that is known to resell phones online....who in turn realizes its importance in a missing persons case and next thing you know it's found on the tracks...
Phone Finder Dude wouldn't know it was Achim's phone until he turned it on unless somebody told him or unless he was involved. If he (or someone else) DID turn it on before he "found" it, hopefully the phone has pinged that location and LE has chosen not to report it to the public.

I think it's possible that someone paid Phone Finder Dude to "find" the phone because that person had turned it on and was afraid of the ping. Not sure why you wouldn't just chuck it in the river, though.

ETA: Phone Finder Dude did say "there was no case or anything." Wonder if there was ID on the case. I find it strange that somebody wouldn't have a case on his iPhone. I guess friends would know. I tend to put ID inside cases like that just in case somebody finds my phone. If they're honest, they can at least try to give the phone back if I lose it with the screen lock on.
 
That's a good question. They should check with his dad to see if he was under the influence of any alcohol or drugs and check with the bar to see what kind of drinks were ordered. Also, it would be good to check to see if he ate anything before he left home.
 
i've believed all along this is what happened with the phone, too. that makes the most sense, and i got a strange vibe from the D character (guy who had the phone). still a curious story about his disappearance, though, being along a river and getting kicked out of a bar...AGAIN. (IF you believe the conspiracy theory). is there a list compiled (or a thread) of how many of these kids have gotten kicked out of bars/"landed themselves" dead in rivers? it's all very spooky and strange to me.

Below is the WS thread I am aware of. There are other sites, blogs and even books on the subject. There is "Footprints on the River's Edge" blog, and one of the books in David Paulides' Missing 411 series documenting cases of missing people is dedicated to urban disappearances of young men: "A Sobering Coincidence." He sells his books on his web site, and there are many YouTube recordings of interviews he has done with radio hosts. I believe there are several related to his "A Sobering Coincidence" book. There is a lot of information, speculation and theories to be found. However, I don't think real answers are coming anytime soon. MOO.

Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6
 
If the phone finder dude was paid to “find” or get rid of the phone, imagine how stressed out the guy he got it from is right now to see pfd flapping his mouth all over social media trying to be the hero.. Maybe that’s who tried breaking into pfds house to shut him up!
 
Below is the WS thread I am aware of. There are other sites, blogs and even books on the subject. There is "Footprints on the River's Edge" blog, and one of the books in David Paulides' Missing 411 series documenting cases of missing people is dedicated to urban disappearances of young men: "A Sobering Coincidence." He sells his books on his web site, and there are many YouTube recordings of interviews he has done with radio hosts. I believe there are several related to his "A Sobering Coincidence" book. There is a lot of information, speculation and theories to be found. However, I don't think real answers are coming anytime soon. MOO.

Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6
The issue is, when a female goes missing of that age there is an urgency to find them, bring them home to safety. When a male goes missing of that age, most people assume it's suicide or that they've run off, there's not the same urgency or fear of danger. That needs to change.
 
The issue is, when a female goes missing of that age there is an urgency to find them, bring them home to safety. When a male goes missing of that age, most people assume it's suicide or that they've run off, there's not the same urgency or fear of danger. That needs to change.

And there may be other factors that contribute to the lack of urgency in a case like Achim's. Which we can't talk about here because it will derail the thread. So I talk about it elsewhere.

I hope there are some answers here soon. I don't buy into a conspiracy or smiley face killer theory.
 
And there may be other factors that contribute to the lack of urgency in a case like Achim's. Which we can't talk about here because it will derail the thread. So I talk about it elsewhere.

I hope there are some answers here soon. I don't buy into a conspiracy or smiley face killer theory.

Is there an equal number of missing college-age women turning up dead in rivers? I would really like to know. A lot of young women do disappear and do get murdered. I'm just not aware of their bodies frequently turning up in rivers, which would be a logical disposal site because SA is frequently involved, and water deteriorates DNA. Recent high-profile cases of Celia BA and Mollie T did not result in river disposal although Celia was in close proximity to a river and suffered SA. Hania A's body was found, IIRC, in some kind of swamp; IDK if the effects would be the same as in a river. Many similar victims that I can recall were found in shallow graves, dumpsters, or simply left along roads or in wooded areas. I cannot think of any recent cases with river disposal of young women's bodies. I don't recall famous serial killers using river disposal of women's bodies, either before or after the advent of DNA testing. Also, of all of these cases of young men ending up in rivers, I can't recall anyone being arrested, or even a POI, including in cases, like Dakota J's, where there is evidence that the deaths were not accidental. In the women's cases mentioned above, all three have a suspect in custody. After following these cases for years, my gut instinct is that something is different with the cases of young men found in rivers, but I don't have any good theories. A serial killer/s could be responsible for some of the "river deaths," but I don't believe even close to all of them. MOO.
 
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I'm wondering why LE won't hack his phone. Isn't there some exigent circumstances that would allow that? It would certainly seem to be a reasonable conclusion that he could be in danger (or worse).
Did I read that Phone Guy started his search at 5am? I'm happy to say that I'm hardly ever up at that time but I'm thinking it's pretty dark at that hour - seems counterproductive to search in the dark unless it's only hours after a person is missing.
I do think it's possible that LE and other searchers could have missed the phone in initial searches. I can think of at least three other cases where LE missed a body in their first searches. Missing a phone would be easy especially if it got covered by blown leaves or debris. Like other iPhone users though, I know that the cold weather drains my battery when the phone is on - but I don't know if that holds true for phones that are turned off.
Hoping for progress tomorrow - his family must be a mess.
 
I'm wondering why LE won't hack his phone. Isn't there some exigent circumstances that would allow that? It would certainly seem to be a reasonable conclusion that he could be in danger (or worse).
Did I read that Phone Guy started his search at 5am? I'm happy to say that I'm hardly ever up at that time but I'm thinking it's pretty dark at that hour - seems counterproductive to search in the dark unless it's only hours after a person is missing.
I do think it's possible that LE and other searchers could have missed the phone in initial searches. I can think of at least three other cases where LE missed a body in their first searches. Missing a phone would be easy especially if it got covered by blown leaves or debris. Like other iPhone users though, I know that the cold weather drains my battery when the phone is on - but I don't know if that holds true for phones that are turned off.
Hoping for progress tomorrow - his family must be a mess.

So he got up at 5 am and went out in total darkness to search for the phone, but didn’t find or turn it in it until 9 am? Perhaps he was actually there early to drop it off (and have an alibi about why he was there at all = to search). I think it’s way too coincidental that he’s an iPhone seller who just luckily found an iPhone of a missing person on the ground. MOO.
 
And there may be other factors that contribute to the lack of urgency in a case like Achim's. Which we can't talk about here because it will derail the thread. So I talk about it elsewhere.

I hope there are some answers here soon. I don't buy into a conspiracy or smiley face killer theory.

I don't buy into killers or conspiracy either. I think it's nothing short of guys, mostly under the influence, doing what a lot of guys do, and that's peeing on or off of things. The fact that a lot of these cases happen in the winter just makes me more confident in my theory. You fall in a body of water trying to pee in the summer, and you can get out and walk home wet. No missing person to report, you may not even tell anyone to spare your embarrassing story. You fall in the water in winter and the likelihood of being able to overcome the initial shock (especially if drunk/buzzed) and swim to safety would be nearly impossible. On the off chance some did make it out of the water, hypothermia would have taken them down in short order and possibly make them do some incredibly insane things. Paradoxical undressing isn't unheard of, so I would think going back into the cold water to cool off isn't out of the realm of possibilities.
 
I don't buy into killers or conspiracy either. I think it's nothing short of guys, mostly under the influence, doing what a lot of guys do, and that's peeing on or off of things. The fact that a lot of these cases happen in the winter just makes me more confident in my theory. You fall in a body of water trying to pee in the summer, and you can get out and walk home wet. No missing person to report, you may not even tell anyone to spare your embarrassing story. You fall in the water in winter and the likelihood of being able to overcome the initial shock (especially if drunk/buzzed) and swim to safety would be nearly impossible. On the off chance some did make it out of the water, hypothermia would have taken them down in short order and possibly make them do some incredibly insane things. Paradoxical undressing isn't unheard of, so I would think going back into the cold water to cool off isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

It would be interesting to hear from men who have fallen in the water while peeing drunk, and surviving. I wonder how often it happens.
 
It would be interesting to hear from men who have fallen in the water while peeing drunk, and surviving. I wonder how often it happens.

I have no idea. I'm not sure it happens that often. I know a lot fall off of boats trying to pee (drunk and sober) and have seen it happen a few times personally.

I think it's not exactly rare for male drowning victims pulled out of bodies of water after falling out of a boat to have their pants unzipped. There's some discussion about it in the scuba, fishing, and boating message boards and I've also heard conservation officers I know talk about it. It's not exactly a tidbit that gets released in the paper, so I'm not sure there's a way to confirm exact numbers.
 
I have no idea. I'm not sure it happens that often. I know a lot fall off of boats trying to pee (drunk and sober) and have seen it happen a few times personally.

I think it's not exactly rare for male drowning victims pulled out of bodies of water after falling out of a boat to have their pants unzipped. There's some discussion about it in the scuba, fishing, and boating message boards and I've also heard conservation officers I know talk about it. It's not exactly a tidbit that gets released in the paper, so I'm not sure there's a way to confirm exact numbers.

IMO, while I know some men do accidentally fall into bodies of water and drown, there are many deaths of young men found in rivers who did not drown. Some were initially erroneously classified as drowning because of hurried or not thoroughly / competently done autopsies on bodies that had no obvious signs of trauma. When families had autopsies re-done more thoroughly, the victims were found not to have drowned. Families did not believe that the young men had walked far out of their way, or climbed down a steep embankment, or climbed over a barrier just to pee in a body of water on a frigid night; thus, their skepticism over drowning. In some cases, there was evidence that the man did not die on the night he disappeared, but days or even weeks later. In other cases, perfectly ambulatory men "drowned" in water up to their knees. There is much documentation of these other suspicious deaths in which the men's bodies were recovered in bodies of water in the sources I mentioned in my previous post, as well as in numerous others. I realize that it is much more comforting to believe that victims die through accidents brought on by poor choices such as walking alone at night after drinking and / or deciding they must urinate in water, than to entertain the possibility of something sinister. I sincerely hope that Achim has not suffered this fate, and is found alive, but there are worrying similarities between his disappearance and that of young men whose bodies were later found in rivers, canals or other bodies of water. MOO.
 
IMO, while I know some men do accidentally fall into bodies of water and drown, there are many deaths of young men found in rivers who did not drown. Some were initially erroneously classified as drowning because of hurried or not thoroughly / competently done autopsies on bodies that had no obvious signs of trauma. When families had autopsies re-done more thoroughly, the victims were found not to have drowned. Families did not believe that the young men had walked far out of their way, or climbed down a steep embankment, or climbed over a barrier just to pee in a body of water on a frigid night; thus, their skepticism over drowning. In some cases, there was evidence that the man did not die on the night he disappeared, but days or even weeks later. In other cases, perfectly ambulatory men "drowned" in water up to their knees. There is much documentation of these other suspicious deaths in which the men's bodies were recovered in bodies of water in the sources I mentioned in my previous post, as well as in numerous others. I realize that it is much more comforting to believe that victims die through accidents brought on by poor choices such as walking alone at night after drinking and / or deciding they must urinate in water, than to entertain the possibility of something sinister. I sincerely hope that Achim has not suffered this fate, and is found alive, but there are worrying similarities between his disappearance and that of young men whose bodies were later found in rivers, canals or other bodies of water. MOO.

No obvious signs of trauma could mean hypothermia as well. I would think most physical trauma would be fairly well preserved in icy water and it seems most men who are killed are shot or stabbed, maybe violently beaten which would all leave behind a lot of visible trauma. There's also the possibility of taking drugs (knowingly or unknowingly), would explain a lot of curious movements like walking away from home or far out of the way. I've fallen in shallow icy water before and while I was sober and didn't drown, I put myself in a lot more danger in the initial panic than I would have if I would have just calmly took my time and stepped out. Instead I was soaked head to toe and not thinking rationally at all. It only took that few seconds of thrashing around in thigh high water and about a 300 yd walk back to my house soaking wet to be showing the obvious signs of hypothermia. Had I been farther away from home, I'm not sure the outcome would have been the same.

I don't find it comforting at all no matter how they died. I think it's sad if it was accidental or intentional. Statistics also show my theory is the most likely. Not necessarily the peeing, but these were mostly just unfortunate accidents.

The top cause of death in men/boys from ages 1-44 is accidental injuries by a large margin with 20-24 yo being the largest margin by far at 49.5% in 2015. Followed by suicide at 19.9% and homicide at 8.4%. Statistically for every 10 men in this age category, 5 were accidents, 2 were suicides, 2 were medical issues/events, and <1 were murdered.
 
No obvious signs of trauma could mean hypothermia as well. I would think most physical trauma would be fairly well preserved in icy water and it seems most men who are killed are shot or stabbed, maybe violently beaten which would all leave behind a lot of visible trauma. There's also the possibility of taking drugs (knowingly or unknowingly), would explain a lot of curious movements like walking away from home or far out of the way. I've fallen in shallow icy water before and while I was sober and didn't drown, I put myself in a lot more danger in the initial panic than I would have if I would have just calmly took my time and stepped out. Instead I was soaked head to toe and not thinking rationally at all. It only took that few seconds of thrashing around in thigh high water and about a 300 yd walk back to my house soaking wet to be showing the obvious signs of hypothermia. Had I been farther away from home, I'm not sure the outcome would have been the same.

I don't find it comforting at all no matter how they died. I think it's sad if it was accidental or intentional. Statistics also show my theory is the most likely. Not necessarily the peeing, but these were mostly just unfortunate accidents.

The top cause of death in men/boys from ages 1-44 is accidental injuries by a large margin with 20-24 yo being the largest margin by far at 49.5% in 2015. Followed by suicide at 19.9% and homicide at 8.4%. Statistically for every 10 men in this age category, 5 were accidents, 2 were suicides, 2 were medical issues/events, and <1 were murdered.

While I'm concerned that Achim might be found deceased in a body of water after wandering away from a bar, like so many others have, I don't want to take up more space on his thread discussing these cases when there is a more appropriate thread for that purpose. MOO.
Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6
I was not implying at all that you were "comfortable" with the deaths of young men. I was referring to the well-known phenomenon of people feeling more comfortable, i.e. safer when they believe they have some control over situations. People aren't scared and panicked when they hear of accidental deaths caused by risky behavior because they believe they have control over their behavior and won't do similar risky things. On the other hand, when a murderer is randomly targeting victims for no apparent reason, people have much less control over avoiding becoming a victim. Consequently, it's more comforting to our psyches to believe a person has died in an accident caused by poor decisions or risky behavior than by being the "innocent victim" of evil. I do believe this is partially the reason so many people cling to the idea that the vast majority of the hundreds of men found dead in rivers in the last twenty years accidentally fell in and drowned despite the many cases in which there is not good evidence to support it. MOO.
 

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