MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014

[believe09]

Did the family know how much he struggled with depression? Michelle wrote about trying to help him, but did she ever reach out to his family. I can't imagine why Michelle would think no one would ever read his last texts. I understand suicide is tricky but he seemed very concern for his family. I quickly read the messages she sent Conrads mom, and I also felt something was off. I am going to read the messages from Conrad.

I edit some of my opinions out.

I wonder what all the other texts were about.

Yes they did. He was in treatment. He had set goals after graduation-if I were them I would have viewed that as a boy who aspired to a full life. I am not speaking for them of course.

He confided in a trusted friend and was urged to continue on his path. It is not surprising to me that trusted friends knew more about his plans or thoughts or feelings. Kids hide that stuff from parents-there is nothing new there. Kids hide drug use, sexual activity and who they are hanging out with, kwim?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think there is a possibility that Conrad thought he would be rescued again. That he was worth saving...maybe that is what he needed to hear. Maybe it never occurred to him that she wouldnt take any action other than to revel in the experience and prolong it with a fund raiser and self serving texts and posts.

Oops, that sounded harsh. I am admittedly bitter today. I am especially bitter when someone chooses to prey on the weak and vulnerable which is how I see this case. She is fairly charged and perhaps under charged. jmvho.

What if that is not at all what this was. What if this was someone who saw her friend suffering so very very much and like a person who is suffering with Cancer, she just wanted him to be able to be at peace.

I will watch this one to see what really ends up being fact.

 

[believe09]

What if that is not at all what this was. What if this was someone who saw her friend suffering so very very much and like a person who is suffering with Cancer, she just wanted him to be able to be at peace.

I will watch this one to see what really ends up being fact.

Then you are back to assisted suicide, right? Which is illegal in MA and subject to murder statutes.

 

[DexterMorgan]

They may can charge her with these crimes; but no guarantee. Btw: I'm not a lawyer so i dont know the exact legal terms nor code sections.

1)assisted suicide (due to her get back in comment )

2) Hindering an investigation (by her playing dumb about her role in this suicide)

3) Aiding and abetting a crime before it took place

4) conspiracy to commit fraud ( by saying she tried her best when she did the opposite in order to seek notoriety )

5) Withholding knowledge of a crime that is about to take place.

 

[nrdsb4]

FARIBAULT, Minn. - A former nurse in Minnesota who admitted to going online years ago and preying upon suicidal people — encouraging two to take their lives — must serve nearly six months in jail as part of a sentence handed down Wednesday.

William Melchert-Dinkel was sentenced to three years in prison in the deaths of an English man and a Canadian woman, but he won't have to serve the prison term if he complies with conditions of his probation that include the jail time.

In Minnesota, state prisons house serious offenders while local cells are for less serious offenders.

Melchert-Dinkel must report to jail on Oct. 24.

"I am sorry... for my actions and what I have done," Melchert-Dinkel said in court before he was sentenced. "I have repented."

The 52-year-old was convicted in September of one count of assisting a suicide and one count of attempting to assist a suicide in the deaths of Mark Drybrough, 32, of Coventry, England and Nadia Kajouji, 18, of Brampton, Ont..

The convictions came after the Minnesota Supreme Court narrowed the state's assisted-suicide law and reversed earlier convictions.

Kajouji jumped into a frozen river in 2008. She was a student at Carleton University in Ottawa at the time. Drybrough hanged himself in 2005.

__

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/ex-nurse-guilty-of-assisting-suicide-gets-jail/

What a despicable excuse for a human being. Really, I've met some amazing people in my life, but I've got to say that humans can be a really sorry lot.

 

[believe09]

Maybe we can have the title of the thread changed to something like "Michelle Carter charged with coercing suicide" or "MA Teen charged with manslaughter by coercing suicide"

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

My guess is that the few text messages we have seen of 1,000+ are the most egregious of the lot. If the prosecution's case is based on those text messages and social media I think they are going to have a tough time. jmo

 

[cocomod]

I do not think that LE would put all of their investigation or even their best evidence out for the public to see before the trial.

My brother-in-law committed suicide. His family tried and succeeded in stopping him in 2 previous attempts. He just couldn't take the pain any more. He had gone to many therapists; he had tried many, many of the drugs on the market; he had even submitted himself to electro-shock therapy. He was in the best place he had been in for the last 3 years of his life. And yet, in the end, he lost his balance. He was almost 50 and had been suffering and trying to get help since he was 20. Depression / anxiety / OCD - they are very complex issues.

He had people helping him, no-one EVER would have encouraged him to take his own life. I do not believe that a teenage girl could EVER have the knowledge that death is better than life for a young boy that hasn't had the opportunity to get TRUE help. There is NO excuse. NONE! IMHO She needs to be charged so that she - and mainly others - can see the absolute travesty of her actions.

This case makes me so very, very sad. His family must be absolutely devastated yet again. This would be like a second death. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

[Miss Muffet]

My guess is that the few text messages we have seen of 1,000+ are the most egregious of the lot. If the prosecution's case is based on those text messages and social media I think they are going to have a tough time. jmo

It seems those are the texts LE is using as evidence to prove she pretended to help.

LE probably hasn't released all of the evidence showing she encouraged his suicide.

It's probably a stronger case when we see these texts in the context of those texts.

Notice the police officer's comments say that MC left out her responses in between his when sending these to his mother.

But I guarantee LE has those responses as evidence of what she did.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

It seems those are the texts LE is using as evidence to prove she pretended to help.

LE probably hasn't released all of the evidence showing she encouraged his suicide.

It's probably a stronger case when we see these texts in the context of those texts.

Notice the police officer's comments say that MC left out her responses in between his when sending these to his mother.

But I guarantee LE has those responses as evidence of what she did.

I didn't state it clearly. If all the prosecution has is her written words (maybe they have more) I think they will have a tough time. Free speech is protected by the constitution.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I didn't state it clearly. If all the prosecution has is her written words (maybe they have more) I think they will have a tough time. Free speech is protected by the constitution.

Free speech is protected, yes, but there are a few exceptions. It's been established that it isn't protected when it creates a "clear and present danger." Clear and present danger has been clarified to mean "imminent lawless action," which is to incite violation of the law that is imminent and likely. I think it's clear that his committing suicide was imminent, and her encouraging it and telling him to get back in the vehicle was inciting him to go through with it. Since suicide and assisted suicide aren't specifically addressed by laws in MA, this is where it's unclear and should be interesting. I don't think it'll come down to an issue of free speech though, at least not in my unprofessional opinion.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I didn't state it clearly. If all the prosecution has is her written words (maybe they have more) I think they will have a tough time. Free speech is protected by the constitution.

Sorry but you are wrong.

Melchert-Dinkel was charged with aiding the suicides of Drybrough and Kajouji and convicted in 2011 by Rice County Judge Thomas Neuville, who found that he “intentionally advised and encouraged” the victims to take their lives.

Defense attorney Terry Watkins appealed, saying Melchert-Dinkel’s actions might have been immoral, but they were not illegal. Melchert-Dinkel remained free on appeal.



The justices found that part of Minnesota’s law that bans someone from “encouraging” or “advising” suicide is unconstitutional because it encompasses speech protected under the First Amendment.


But the justices upheld part of the law that makes it a crime to “assist” in someone’s suicide — and said speech could be considered assisting.



http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/ex-nurse-guilty-of-assisting-suicide-gets-jail/


So depending on her states supreme justice. She can be found guilty.

 

[LvsAMystry]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-it-a-crime-to-encourage-suicide-unusual-massachusetts-case-of-conrad-roy-and-michelle-carter/

"CBS News' legal analyst and former Massachusetts prosecutor Rikki Klieman acknowledges that while the accusations against Carter are "horrendous," the case doesn't neatly fit into any statute in Massachusetts.

"It's not cyberbullying, it's not harassment, it's not stalking. So the prosecutor says, 'This is reprehensible conduct, disgusting conduct, must-be-punished conduct,' so he goes forward and says, 'Let's call this involuntary manslaughter.' Does it neatly fit in that definition? Not so much. We really are going to have a test case here," Klieman told CBS This Morning."

 

[jjenny]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-it-a-crime-to-encourage-suicide-unusual-massachusetts-case-of-conrad-roy-and-michelle-carter/

"CBS News' legal analyst and former Massachusetts prosecutor Rikki Klieman acknowledges that while the accusations against Carter are "horrendous," the case doesn't neatly fit into any statute in Massachusetts.

"It's not cyberbullying, it's not harassment, it's not stalking. So the prosecutor says, 'This is reprehensible conduct, disgusting conduct, must-be-punished conduct,' so he goes forward and says, 'Let's call this involuntary manslaughter.' Does it neatly fit in that definition? Not so much. We really are going to have a test case here," Klieman told CBS This Morning."

Well I hope something sticks.

 

[believe09]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-it-a...setts-case-of-conrad-roy-and-michelle-carter/

"CBS News' legal analyst and former Massachusetts prosecutor Rikki Klieman acknowledges that while the accusations against Carter are "horrendous," the case doesn't neatly fit into any statute in Massachusetts.

"It's not cyberbullying, it's not harassment, it's not stalking. So the prosecutor says, 'This is reprehensible conduct, disgusting conduct, must-be-punished conduct,' so he goes forward and says, 'Let's call this involuntary manslaughter.' Does it neatly fit in that definition? Not so much. We really are going to have a test case here," Klieman told CBS This Morning."

Test cases are always good, imo. This one is an excellent area where the conduct is outside the bounds of human decency and what society considers acceptable behavior. So how do we punish it? Props to the DA for being willing to break new ground.

 

[Lulu14]

I think there is a possibility that Conrad thought he would be rescued again. That he was worth saving...maybe that is what he needed to hear. Maybe it never occurred to him that she wouldnt take any action other than to revel in the experience and prolong it with a fund raiser and self serving texts and posts.

If he was hoping to be rescued again, then he was using suicidal threats as some sort of emotional blackmail.

Maybe we can have the title of the thread changed to something like "Michelle Carter charged with coercing suicide" or "MA Teen charged with manslaughter by coercing suicide"

He wasn't coerced though. More like "not discouraged" or even "encouraged".

He had people helping him, no-one EVER would have encouraged him to take his own life. I do not believe that a teenage girl could EVER have the knowledge that death is better than life for a young boy that hasn't had the opportunity to get TRUE help. There is NO excuse. NONE! IMHO She needs to be charged so that she - and mainly others - can see the absolute travesty of her actions.

This case makes me so very, very sad. His family must be absolutely devastated yet again. This would be like a second death. :cry: :cry: :cry:

So, is it the fault of the people who were trying to help him that he ended up committing suicide?

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-it-a-crime-to-encourage-suicide-unusual-massachusetts-case-of-conrad-roy-and-michelle-carter/

"CBS News' legal analyst and former Massachusetts prosecutor Rikki Klieman acknowledges that while the accusations against Carter are "horrendous," the case doesn't neatly fit into any statute in Massachusetts.

"It's not cyberbullying, it's not harassment, it's not stalking. So the prosecutor says, 'This is reprehensible conduct, disgusting conduct, must-be-punished conduct,' so he goes forward and says, 'Let's call this involuntary manslaughter.' Does it neatly fit in that definition? Not so much. We really are going to have a test case here," Klieman told CBS This Morning."

Sounds like 'Assisted Suicide' to me, and that's against the law.

 

[Zuri]

There is a Federal statute out there whereby the Roy family could sue the Carter family for wrongful death, contributing to the death, as Michelle was a minor at the time. My family's case was a test case in Federal Court and we won against the man who knew that a robbery was going to take place and a gun would be involved, that resulted in my brother's death.

We sued for a lot of money and with the money, my parents established scholarships in my brother's name, including one for the detectives' children who solved my brother's murder. There may be some obscure statute in Massachusetts that supports the charges against Michelle. That is what our attorney found and succeeded. The case set precedent back in 1985. IMO

 

[Cubby]

I didn't state it clearly. If all the prosecution has is her written words (maybe they have more) I think they will have a tough time. Free speech is protected by the constitution.

The texts were initially discovered on Conrad's phone. There was a 1K thread of texts between he and MC detailing the suicide from it's inception through it's completion.

 

[Cubby]

Test cases are always good, imo. This one is an excellent area where the conduct is outside the bounds of human decency and what society considers acceptable behavior. So how do we punish it? Props to the DA for being willing to break new ground.

:clap: :clap: :clap: