MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

[Spectrix]

I remember that.
She was also very close to his wife, they were good mates, now they sit in very close proximity to her, which seems wrong and they don't acknowledge each other at all..

Not sure if I'm interpreting it wrong but when encountering KR being restrained by hospital employees screaming "IS HE ALIVE?!", blowing her a kiss (rather than sitting her down and explaining that JOK had passed away) seems very patronising. So I'm trying to understand that part.

 

[kittythehare]

Not sure if I'm interpreting it wrong but when encountering KR being restrained by hospital employees screaming "IS HE ALIVE?!", blowing her a kiss (rather than sitting her down and explaining that JOK had passed away) seems very patronising. So I'm trying to understand that part.

I was attempting to visualise that and I had difficulty with it..
I couldn't tell what distance they were apart or whether it was because he was supporting another family member physically at the time..

 

[arielilane]

For anyone interested, WCVB5 has released photos (482 total) of all the exhibits presented thus far.

Just click on “Slideshow” text on photo of KR.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/karen-...vidence-shown-to-jurors-in-courtroom/60793160

Thank you so much for posting this link. A lot of photos to view but a much more clearer look at the evidence being presented.

 

[keek]

Not sure if I'm interpreting it wrong but when encountering KR being restrained by hospital employees screaming "IS HE ALIVE?!", blowing her a kiss (rather than sitting her down and explaining that JOK had passed away) seems very patronising. So I'm trying to understand that part.

He must of known at that time JO'K was said to have been hit by her suv. Not going to sit down with her and blowing a kiss doesn't always mean love ya. HIs mind was in awful upset and confusion at that time as well.

 

[TTF14]

Yeah. That's most likely.
The cuts were made while he was still alive by the looks of them.

I'm not sure what was his relationship with dogs generally.
That might be useful information.
To know how he might have instinctively reacted to the dog.

Be interesting too to know the sequence of the injuries that occurred.

The injury to his head must be the injury that killed him..


What the hell happened?

Was he in the rear yard when the dog was out and did he react badly to her? She wasn't good with strangers.

Was that what actually happened?

I think I'm assuming the dog attack preceded the head injury,

I'm also unclear as to the nature of that wound..

Well, if it's true that he traversed 3 flights of steps, I think he might have gone directly to the basement when he arrived because that's where the boys were (even though they testified they weren't, I believe), a fight immediately ensued because of a smart remark someone made, and Chloe just jumped in. I think he was hit on the back of the head by someone involved in the fight. They carried his body out to the flagpole.

But, since they also were making a big deal about the dog being let out to pee, maybe Chloe was out there when John arrived, heard him, and got scared and went after him? You'd think they would have just said that though....

IMO MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

For the prosecution to kind of throw up their hands and say to the jury "We want you to find Karen Read guilty of murder in the second degree but we have no idea how this murder actually happened" is not a good look.

If they can't explain John's wounds they shouldn't have brought the case to trial.


There are a lot of open questions about the shirt's chain of custody, so I wouldn't put too much credence in the lack of DNA on the shirt. Who knows what happened to it after it was cut off of him. And of course the ME never bothered to check John's wounds for DNA.

But one thing to me is clear: Those tiny holes in his shirt are punctures. They're not from slicing, cutting or abrading and were not caused by the taillight or the car or whatever the latest fanciful thing people have come up with to explain the wounds. Seriously, John was crawling through bushes? WTH?

But the prosecution doesn't have to present a second by second account of what happened to show murder actually happened. Neither do they need to trace every mark on his body back to the object that made it. This is reasonable doubt, not beyond any uncertainty. They have so far proven she was there, she was very drunk, she admitted to being in a fight, she accelerated backward with her foot 75% to the floor reaching 24mph in 60 feet, her tail light is broken, his DNA is on it, the pieces of tail light are in the yard and on the street, pieces of tail light are on his shirt, broken glass from the one he was holding in his hand as he left the bar were in the yard with him, and she knew exactly where to find him and speculated that she may have hit him, and he is dead.

The defense wants you to believe that all those things above are false or fabricated, and that he went into a house full of people, including law enforcement officers, all of them are now lying, he got beat up and bitten by their dog, then they dragged him out in the street to die and they were smart enough to plant him right on top of his broken glass. Without presenting a single piece of evidence any of this is real.

The defense's case is beyond ludicrous.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Well, if it's true that he traversed 3 flights of steps, I think he might have gone directly to the basement when he arrived because that's where the boys were (even though they testified they weren't, I believe), a fight immediately ensued because of a smart remark someone made, and Chloe just jumped in. I think he was hit on the back of the head by someone involved in the fight. They carried his body out to the flagpole.

But, since they also were making a big deal about the dog being let out to pee, maybe Chloe was out there when John arrived, heard him, and got scared and went after him? You'd think they would have just said that though....

IMO MOO

Again- this is a totally plausible version of events. There all sorts of scenarios that fit some of the evidence and to be fair explain some of his wounds better. Dogs bite, people fight, bad cops exist and sometimes they frame suspects. But you have to ignore the massive amount of evidence that he got hit by a car out front by a person who was black-out drunk.

 

[Slick762]

Semantics, but I'm on team dog "defend." I think Chloe stepped in to defend a perceived threat when she saw a fight happening.

JMO

Doesn't even have to be a fight. I used to have a Dachshund that would try to bite my sister just for yelling at me.

 

[ch_13]

But the prosecution doesn't have to present a second by second account of what happened to show murder actually happened. Neither do they need to trace every mark on his body back to the object that made it. This is reasonable doubt, not beyond any uncertainty. They have so far proven she was there, she was very drunk, she admitted to being in a fight, she accelerated backward with her foot 75% to the floor reaching 24mph in 60 feet, her tail light is broken, his DNA is on it, the pieces of tail light are in the yard and on the street, pieces of tail light are on his shirt, broken glass from the one he was holding in his hand as he left the bar were in the yard with him, and she knew exactly where to find him and speculated that she may have hit him, and he is dead.

The defense wants you to believe that all those things above are false or fabricated, and that he went into a house full of people, including law enforcement officers, all of them are now lying, he got beat up and bitten by their dog, then they dragged him out in the street to die and they were smart enough to plant him right on top of his broken glass. Without presenting a single piece of evidence any of this is real.

The defense's case is beyond ludicrous.

Let's take these one by one:

• They have so far proven she was there - yes
• she was very drunk - likely
• she admitted to being in a fight - did she? not in any testimony to date I recall
• she accelerated backward with her foot 75% to the floor reaching 24mph in 60 feet - no, not unless you believe Trooper Paul who I thought was an incompetent witness and has no business being an accident reconstructionist. In all likelihood he screwed up the key start data.
• her tail light is broken - very suspicious circumstances and possibly part of a frame up
• his DNA is on it - only touch DNA, no blood or skin
• the pieces of tail light are in the yard and on the street, pieces of tail light are on his shirt - again very suspicious circumstances
• broken glass from the one he was holding in his hand as he left the bar were in the yard with him - but none on her bumper although the commonwealth falsely tried to claim otherwise
• and she knew exactly where to find him - she saw him in the yard
• speculated that she may have hit him - ok
• and he is dead - you got me there. He is dead.

 

[TIGER0822]

As stated in Canton Confidential podcast no one is talking about JOK’s body was flipped over before LE arrived.

For anyone who might be interested:

911 call -- timestamp: 15:15

"We just flipped him over."

Day 8 | Who are the Albert family?

On Day 8, we heard more from Chris and Julie Albert - friends of John O'Keefe - about what happened the night he died and the Albert family's connections in Canton and law enforcement.

art19.com

Timestamp 15.15? Who was flipped over, date, person, place. It was not JO at that time , as the EMT were not there.

 

[kittythehare]

Well, if it's true that he traversed 3 flights of steps, I think he might have gone directly to the basement when he arrived because that's where the boys were (even though they testified they weren't, I believe), a fight immediately ensued because of a smart remark someone made, and Chloe just jumped in. I think he was hit on the back of the head by someone involved in the fight. They carried his body out to the flagpole.

But, since they also were making a big deal about the dog being let out to pee, maybe Chloe was out there when John arrived, heard him, and got scared and went after him? You'd think they would have just said that though....

IMO MOO

He could have lashed out at her and someone didn't like it and gave him the head injury. That's a stretch, I know but I still believe it happened fast.. basement or year yard..

 

[Wishbone]

Again- this is a totally plausible version of events. There all sorts of scenarios that fit some of the evidence and to be fair explain some of his wounds better. Dogs bite, people fight, bad cops exist and sometimes they frame suspects. But you have to ignore the massive amount of evidence that he got hit by a car out front by a person who was black-out drunk.

More like one would have to ignore the evidence the FBI provided. JO was not hit by KR's car and JO's injuries were not caused by her car.

 

[bobbymkii]

Again- this is a totally plausible version of events. There all sorts of scenarios that fit some of the evidence and to be fair explain some of his wounds better. Dogs bite, people fight, bad cops exist and sometimes they frame suspects. But you have to ignore the massive amount of evidence that he got hit by a car out front by a person who was black-out drunk.

BBM

Well when the defense get to present their case (if indeed we even get that far) they will be calling two biomechanical experts who are currently working on the FBI investigation into the incident. Both of them have demonstrably vastly superior qualifications and experience in crash reconstruction than Trooper Paul does, and their expert opinion is that there was no pedestrian hit on John O'Keefe's body.

ETA: BBM

 

[geevee]

For anyone interested, WCVB5 has released photos (482 total) of all the exhibits presented thus far.

Just click on “Slideshow” text on photo of KR.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/karen-...vidence-shown-to-jurors-in-courtroom/60793160

I must have missed it when these pics of the shoes were shown in court, does anyone have a theory of why the sole of one of them seems more worn/dirtier than the other?

 

[HarmonyE.]

But, since they also were making a big deal about the dog being let out to pee, maybe Chloe was out there when John arrived, heard him, and got scared and went after him? You'd think they would have just said that though....

IMO MOO

I recall this a little differently. BA was asked if Chloe went out at all and he said, just briefly into the fenced back yard and then back in So not that big a deal.

Chloe may have scratched up John's arm, but she didn't kill him. Whoever caused that head injury with skull fractures and then carried him out to die in the cold did.

 

[geevee]

Yes, then when asked though how JO looked when she saw him, but we know her head was thinking all the time, is this a trick question. Just had said on his back, no mention of Kerri or KR turning him over/flip. Phone under him, he laying on that phone. They didn't think to toss that a distance like the glass cup, shoe and oh yes, the red plastic.

And his hat, don't forget his hat.

And speaking of which, there were no pictures taken of his hat in the slide show linked above, only where it was found (which looks like near the bush) but no pics laid out like of his other clothing and shoes, which I find odd.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

As stated in Canton Confidential podcast no one is talking about JOK’s body was flipped over before LE arrived.

For anyone who might be interested:

911 call -- timestamp: 15:15

"We just flipped him over."

Day 8 | Who are the Albert family?

On Day 8, we heard more from Chris and Julie Albert - friends of John O'Keefe - about what happened the night he died and the Albert family's connections in Canton and law enforcement.

art19.com

I wonder if the flip JMcC refers to is the one that occurs KerR wraps JOK’s head? KerR testifies that they found JOK on his back but as she checks him over and removes snow from his face she notices he is bleeding at the back of his head. She decides to check to see if he has a head wound and sees he has a cut at the back of his head. She admits she can’t really recall what she wrapped it but her testimony was very thorough, easy to follow and seemed genuine or honest in my opinion. I think she wraps his head prior to starting CPR.

@19:29

 

[keek]

And his hat, don't forget his hat.

And speaking of which, there were no pictures taken of his hat in the slide show linked above, only where it was found (which looks like near the bush) but no pics laid out like of his other clothing and shoes, which I find odd.

It is and we know it was all disgraceful’procedure’ and going by what was said by the 3 at the scene as fact. Horrified

 

[Curiousobserver]

BBM

Well when the defense get to present their case (if indeed we even get that far) they will be calling two biomechanical experts who are currently working on the FBI investigation into the incident. Both of them have demonstrably vastly superior qualifications and experience in crash reconstruction than Trooper Paul does, and their expert opinion is that there was no pedestrian hit on John O'Keefe's body.

ETA: BBM

I have an open mind. If they can show me she was not there, wasn't drunk, didn't speed down the road backward, her tail light wasn't broken, those pieces on him and in the yard are are not her tail light, that isn't his DNA on her tail light, then I'll definitely change sides.

 

[TTF14]

I recall this a little differently. BA was asked if Chloe went out at all and he said, just briefly into the fenced back yard and then back in So not that big a deal.

Chloe may have scratched up John's arm, but she didn't kill him. Whoever caused that head injury with skull fractures and then carried him out to die in the cold did.

I think I missed that the yard was fenced in. I just remember thinking it was odd they kept bring up taking her out to pee and where BA was, etc. Maybe it was simply to say Chloe could not have harmed him in the front yard because she only goes in the fenced in back yard?

I agree she didn't kill him.