MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

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Spectrix said:
I watched the entire Voir Dire yesterday, thank you. I was not aware that the evidence of those two witnesses was in the public domain as yet hence my question.
Multiple people have suggested that it is.


Where, exactly?
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Lawyers for Karen Reed charged with murder for allegedly backing her SUV into her boyfriend and leaving him for dead during a blizzard in Canton in 2022, said Tuesday that crash reconstruction experts hired by federal authorities determined the victim’s injuries were “inconsistent with” being struck by a vehicle
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FBI investigates
 
waldojabba said:
@mrjitty Spot on. It’s a head scratcher.

Being local to the case I don’t know anyone who thinks this should have gone to trial.
It has exposed a lot of “dysfunction” shall I say in the judicial system and LE here in Massachusetts. That “ dysfunction” was always an open secret anyway though in certain towns etc. But…
Putting it all on screen for the world to see shows an amazing lack of self awareness by the Judge etc.
Both sides( p&d) ask the Judge to push the trial out until the fbi finished their investigation but the Judge said No let’s get to trial!
Maybe the Judge fancies herself with a judge judy like career after this from her tv exposure or some other reality show.
IMO She is not smart enough to be so snarky - it comes off as terribly self serving and she is often off the mark. She is def no match for the D.
It’s quite depressing sham actually.
Lally floundering, O’Keefe’s looking for a pound of flesh from KR whether or not the evidence points at her
Federal employees destroying evidence, on and on.
Total embarrassment and disrespectful to the deceased.
All JMO
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Thanks @waldojabba

I am still getting up to speed.

I am stunned that the prosecutor would still bring it. They've got all the discovery after all. Dismiss it. Crawl under a rock. Maybe that was politically not possible.

I feel like the Judge should not let this go the jury.

MOO
 
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arielilane said:
I really liked your well thought out post.

That’s is what is so intriguing about this case, it is a who done it?

Either scenario is a possibility- The fight or the gf? However, thanks to a shoddy investigation the truth will not be fully told.

I don't believe the high school kid had anything to do with it, only because I felt that was a reach. CA doing what most high school punks will do. Pick a fight, mouthy, and act tougher than the next guy. Yet, defense thought they had some kind of goldmine with the video. When you don't have a lot blame it on a kid — it’s a reach.

I’m not 100% KR hit him. It’s apparent she did, but you can’t convict someone on that. I wouldn't.

The investigation made sure to muddy this crime.

I dont believe this should have gone to trial, but it did. It is up to the jury.

I haven’t seen any real solid evidence to convict KR. There's been too much reasonable doubt presented.

So sorry for John O’Keefe’s loved ones. His poor mother sits there every day at trial hearing about the demise of her son probably (moo) knowing it's a waste of time. There is no justice, because of shoddy police work. There’s no truth. I don't believe in a conspiracy, regarding this case - - just that the investigation was poorly handled. We shall see.

All the above is moo
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Isn't/wasn't CA an adult at the time? (No suggestion of involvement. Clarifying for myself.) TIA
 
arielilane said:
In the link you provided there is no mention of flipping over his head as KerR wraps JOK's head. KerR does testify that he was on his back. Anyway, here is KerR's testimony according to Boston.com:

Additionally, iirc, no cross by defense.



Kerry Roberts testified that she awoke at 5 a.m. on Jan. 29, 2022, to a brief phone call from Karen Read, who was screaming frantically into the phone.

“John’s dead,” she remembered Read yelling. Roberts said Read also called out “Kerry, Kerry, Kerry” before hanging up the phone.

Roberts had known John O’Keefe, Read’s boyfriend of two years, since high school and considered him one of her closest friends. When she finally got Read back on the phone, she learned that O’Keefe hadn’t come home the night before.

“I’m afraid John might be dead. He might have gotten hit by a plow,” Roberts said Read told her.

“I said, ‘OK, where are you now?’ And she said, ‘I’m driving. Can I come to your house? Will you drive my car? I don’t remember anything from last night. We drank so much, I don’t remember anything,’” Roberts recalled.

She said she directed Read to return to O’Keefe’s house and stay with his niece, who was home alone.

“I said, ‘You’re going to get a DUI. You were drinking all night last night, and you don’t remember anything. You shouldn’t be driving,’” Roberts said.

She testified that she called the Canton Police Department and Good Samaritan Medical Center to see whether O’Keefe had been in an accident. When she spoke with Read again, she said she learned Read had gone over to Jennifer McCabe’s home.

Roberts testified that she met up with Read and McCabe at O’Keefe’s house, but O’Keefe wasn’t there. As they set out to search for him, Roberts said Read “really wanted to go” to 34 Fairview Road, where McCabe’s sister and brother-in-law lived and where Read had dropped O’Keefe off the night before.

Roberts also testified that she noticed a piece missing from one of the taillights on Read’s SUV.

On the drive over to Fairview Road, “There was some conversation about a woman I didn’t know that was ‘Bella’s mom,’” Roberts recalled. “And she (Read) said, ‘Bella’s mom never liked me.’ I think Bella lived near Jen’s sister, maybe.”

McCabe previously testified that when O’Keefe called to ask for directions to 34 Fairview Road hours before, she told him the house was near “Bella’s street,” referring to a child who was friendly with O’Keefe’s niece. O’Keefe had dated Bella’s mother years before, McCabe said.

As the three women drove over to Fairview Road later that morning, McCabe mentioned that Fairview Road was near Spring Lane.

“And I said, ‘Oh, where the dance instructor lived.’ John had once dated a dance instructor,” Roberts explained. “And then Karen said, ‘Do you think he could have gone there? Do you think that’s where he could have been?’”

As they approached 34 Fairview Road, “All of a sudden Karen said, ‘There he is! There he is! Let me the F out of this car.’ And she started kicking the door,” Roberts recalled.

She said she didn’t see anything at the time, but she unlocked the door and watched as Read ran over to “a mound of snow.”

“At some point, I realized it was the shape of a body,” she added.

Roberts teared up as Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally played police dashcam footage from the scene. Choking back a sob, she recalled the moment she realized there was a person buried in the snow. When she ran over and cleared snow from the man’s face, she said she recognized O’Keefe, her longtime friend.

“He had blood coming out of his nose and his mouth, and his right eye — it looked like a golf ball,” Roberts said, adding that O’Keefe was also bleeding from a cut on the back of his head.

Roberts started CPR while McCabe dialed 911 and Read attempted mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. She said Read repeatedly asked, “Did I hit him?” and “Is he dead?” Roberts also testified that as first responders carted O’Keefe away, she saw grass on the ground where his body had been.

Later on, Read and McCabe were warming up in the back of a police cruiser as Roberts stood outside, she recalled.

‘You’re going to get a DUI,’ Kerry Roberts says she warned Karen Read before search
updated on May 22, 2024
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‘There was blood coming out of the top of his head’, which suggests he was actively bleeding six hours later. That’s unlikely.
I still maintain KR may have glanced him with the SUV resulting in bruises. He went into the house where a fight ensued. All MOI
 
cocomod said:
I believe the CW's "expert" on the key cycle was picking and choosing what data to use to try to fit their narrative. If you look at these numbers:
View attachment 511660

He says at 1164 he was analyzing the car data. So, 1163 would have been pulling the SUV into the Sally Port (this is recorded on video). Also recorded on video is pulling the car on to the tow truck - which logically would mean 1162. She also parked at OJO's house that night. Started the car to go and look for him. At some point, she drove to her parents house. At another point there was KR and JMc and going to the house to find him - parking her car somewhere else. 1162 doesn't jive with being the key cycle that would have been when she was dropping him off at the house party and "backing up" to kill him. Sorry, not sorry, this "analysis" done by this "expert" doesn't make any sense. This would blow their theory of backing up that distance. At worst, it looks to me like at 1162 the vehicle was in the control of the state Troopah's!
Click to expand...
They MUST get these key cycles figured out, because that looks really bad, as you described it. REALLY bad. That would mean that the fast (and long) backup they claim she mad was in reality yet another instance of the police planting incriminating evidence against KR to help their case, since they didn't have enough against her to get a conviction! I.e., just to help make the prosecution's job easier. Since it probably became obvious to them really early that they were going to have a hard time winning a conviction. That Proctor, he is just so helpful! Always there when you need him, sometimes even before you need him!

It truly looks like those key cycles don't correlate to the actual events they tried to say happened, so how can anyone see this any other way? Maybe there's just something we don't understand about how this data is interpreted, since I readily admit, I'm no expert in this area. and I doubt any of the rest of us here are either. But even so, it doesn't seem all that complicated, and even after just the brief introduction I got on key cycles in this trial, I think I understand how they use this data, and I think I can see that something isn't right. So if we have this wrong, and there really is a way to make that 1162 match up to the time when KR sat in the driver's seat in front of 34F, just before she drove to JO's house that night, then they are going to have to explain this. Show us what we must have missed in our crash course on key cycles that makes us wrong. Show us how it can possibly be anything other than that 1162 matches up to a time AFTER LE had already seized her vehicle.

I don't see that possible. I don't think we have that wrong. I don't think the cycles and the events skip out of order, all over the place in time. I think they're numbered sequentially and can be matched up to the events in real life as they happened, in chronological order. Which would make your analysis in your post correct and would make LE (or at least Proctor?) liars! (AGAIN!)

I'm so glad you explained this, because it did bother me about her car data showing her backing up at speed for 60 ft or whatever it was, right as she would've dropped JO off. I didn't understand how that could've happened, and it was looking like the only explanation for that is that was when she would have backed into him. So if that event actually happened at key cycle 1162, and kc1162 happened after kc1161 (duh), then the backing up actually happened at some time other than when (and where) they said. It happened when KR was probably sitting on her parents' couch and not in her driver's seat, and her vehicle was in the care of the police and not in the driveway of her parents' house.

If all this is true, then imo, you can forget all the rest of it. Absolutely forget every bit. All the rest of their flimsy, shady case with all its convoluted, contrived, and cockamamie claims and accusations and theories and excuses. It was bad enough before, but tell me how this is not the smoking gun that shoots their case dead.

I still find that hard to believe though, because how could they think no one would notice this? It seems SO ridiculously obvious and just as easy to disprove them. Which makes me wonder if I have something wrong. Maybe I really didn't learn enough about key cycle data interpretation. Maybe it's more complicated than it seems, and maybe their claims make sense. As I said, I'm no expert, I admit. But wow. It sure looks fishy. So again, they are going to have to explain this. And if they can't, then they need to tuck their tails between their legs and slither on back to wherever they came from. Then the feds will take care of them from there. And they need to fire that Proctor like yesterday. His corruption has no limits. He obviously feels like any tactics are available to him, as long as it helps his side. The ends justify the means, no matter how low. I guess the defense will be returning to this point when they're up. Should be good.
 
This key cycle data thing seems to have almost been deliberately designed to be misleading when used as evidence in a criminal trial. How on earth can technology like this exist without being able to say what date or time it took place, let alone location?

And we just have to guess when it happened based on the milometer and google directions estimates. The 'trust me bro' attitude of the CW with regards to this particularly pivotal part of their case is truly mind-blowing.

This trial hasn't been a battle of the experts, it's been a massacre of the experts. Thank god the FBI hired someone with the proper qualifications and experience to work out what actually happened.

JMO
 
Sachi said:
Wait. She was sitting alone still in her car for 15 minutes had not made a 3 point turn , nor backed up the 62 ft at this time. He was out of the car for 15 minutes while she sat there before she moved the car?
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AND all of this was observed by more than one eyewitness inside the house or even outside right behind or beside her vehicle! They all said the same thing, that they saw the Lexus parked where it was, pulling up a few feet, sitting still, pulling up a little more, and then driving off. They never saw it back up. Never saw JO get hit or fall down or even get out of her vehicle. The witness outside said they passed right by her and could see her alone in the driver's seat, dome light on, just sitting still, waiting or on her phone. Just like she claims she did. If those people saw all that, which encompasses the time from when she arrived to when she left, then why didn't they see her do the fast backup she's supposed to have done? The backup they said they got from her vehicle data (key cycles). It didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. Which means their interpretation of her car data and key cycle info is faulty. Innocent mistake, I'm sure. /s

But that still leaves one mystery. If they saw all that, why did no one see JO exit her car? I mean, we know he did. Unless he walked from the bar. Or unless she drove off with him still in the car and then he walked back to the house. Obviously, neither of those happened. But somehow, he ended up on the lawn of 34F! So he did exit her vehicle. But no one saw that. Or they lied. Or maybe it was just hard to see in the dark and in that weather... I don't like mysteries. Not ones I can't figure out anyway.
 
mzmarymac said:
He was still 17 at the time. But I would imagine there would be a strong possibility of him being charged as an adult, if that were the case.
Click to expand...
In MA the age of criminal responsibility begins at 18. I was curious and looked it up this morning, before coffee, so I could be mistaken lol.
IMO.
ETA: At 14, a juvenile case can be transferred to adult court.

Age Matrix | Interstate Commission for Juveniles

The age matrix provides information on each state's age of majority, the age at which a juvenile can be prosecuted as an adult, and the maximum age of probation and parole. Updated January 16, 2024. Note: This resource is revised when states report updates to the national office. To update your...
juvenilecompact.org juvenilecompact.org
 
sunspun said:
They MUST get these key cycles figured out, because that looks really bad, as you described it. REALLY bad. That would mean that the fast (and long) backup they claim she mad was in reality yet another instance of the police planting incriminating evidence against KR to help their case, since they didn't have enough against her to get a conviction! I.e., just to help make the prosecution's job easier. Since it probably became obvious to them really early that they were going to have a hard time winning a conviction. That Proctor, he is just so helpful! Always there when you need him, sometimes even before you need him!

It truly looks like those key cycles don't correlate to the actual events they tried to say happened, so how can anyone see this any other way? Maybe there's just something we don't understand about how this data is interpreted, since I readily admit, I'm no expert in this area. and I doubt any of the rest of us here are either. But even so, it doesn't seem all that complicated, and even after just the brief introduction I got on key cycles in this trial, I think I understand how they use this data, and I think I can see that something isn't right. So if we have this wrong, and there really is a way to make that 1162 match up to the time when KR sat in the driver's seat in front of 34F, just before she drove to JO's house that night, then they are going to have to explain this. Show us what we must have missed in our crash course on key cycles that makes us wrong. Show us how it can possibly be anything other than that 1162 matches up to a time AFTER LE had already seized her vehicle.

I don't see that possible. I don't think we have that wrong. I don't think the cycles and the events skip out of order, all over the place in time. I think they're numbered sequentially and can be matched up to the events in real life as they happened, in chronological order. Which would make your analysis in your post correct and would make LE (or at least Proctor?) liars! (AGAIN!)

I'm so glad you explained this, because it did bother me about her car data showing her backing up at speed for 60 ft or whatever it was, right as she would've dropped JO off. I didn't understand how that could've happened, and it was looking like the only explanation for that is that was when she would have backed into him. So if that event actually happened at key cycle 1162, and kc1162 happened after kc1161 (duh), then the backing up actually happened at some time other than when (and where) they said. It happened when KR was probably sitting on her parents' couch and not in her driver's seat, and her vehicle was in the care of the police and not in the driveway of her parents' house.

If all this is true, then imo, you can forget all the rest of it. Absolutely forget every bit. All the rest of their flimsy, shady case with all its convoluted, contrived, and cockamamie claims and accusations and theories and excuses. It was bad enough before, but tell me how this is not the smoking gun that shoots their case dead.

I still find that hard to believe though, because how could they think no one would notice this? It seems SO ridiculously obvious and just as easy to disprove them. Which makes me wonder if I have something wrong. Maybe I really didn't learn enough about key cycle data interpretation. Maybe it's more complicated than it seems, and maybe their claims make sense. As I said, I'm no expert, I admit. But wow. It sure looks fishy. So again, they are going to have to explain this. And if they can't, then they need to tuck their tails between their legs and slither on back to wherever they came from. Then the feds will take care of them from there. And they need to fire that Proctor like yesterday. His corruption has no limits. He obviously feels like any tactics are available to him, as long as it helps his side. The ends justify the means, no matter how low. I guess the defense will be returning to this point when they're up. Should be good.
Click to expand...
Regarding Proctor, Walshe's attorney has already made statements about his conduct and implications for other cases.
 
www.nbcboston.com

Testimony continues Thursday in Karen Read trial: Watch live

Testimony is expected to resume Thursday morning in the Karen Read murder trial, with a Massachusetts State Police investigator returning to the stand. Read is accused of striking John O’Keefe, her Boston police officer boyfriend, with her SUV and leaving him for dead in a snowbank in Canton...
www.nbcboston.com www.nbcboston.com
 
sunspun said:
AND all of this was observed by more than one eyewitness inside the house or even outside right behind or beside her vehicle! They all said the same thing, that they saw the Lexus parked where it was, pulling up a few feet, sitting still, pulling up a little more, and then driving off. They never saw it back up. Never saw JO get hit or fall down or even get out of her vehicle. The witness outside said they passed right by her and could see her alone in the driver's seat, dome light on, just sitting still, waiting or on her phone. Just like she claims she did. If those people saw all that, which encompasses the time from when she arrived to when she left, then why didn't they see her do the fast backup she's supposed to have done? The backup they said they got from her vehicle data (key cycles). It didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. Which means their interpretation of her car data and key cycle info is faulty. Innocent mistake, I'm sure. /s

But that still leaves one mystery. If they saw all that, why did no one see JO exit her car? I mean, we know he did. Unless he walked from the bar. Or unless she drove off with him still in the car and then he walked back to the house. Obviously, neither of those happened. But somehow, he ended up on the lawn of 34F! So he did exit her vehicle. But no one saw that. Or they lied. Or maybe it was just hard to see in the dark and in that weather... I don't like mysteries. Not ones I can't figure out anyway.
Click to expand...

Just a guess, but maybe she dropped him off at the driveway so he could walk up that way. Somebody, forget who, said they saw her car pull forward a few times. So maybe she did move from the driveway further up the street, after dropping him off, to allow for other cars to pull in behind her.JMO
 
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