MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

[turaj]

Come on! It makes total sense because he DOESN’T HAVE TRASH SERVICE. Lol. Did you hear that? Have you ever heard such a thing? So he drives to a military base to empty his trash weekly. I seriously don’t know how the defense team doesn’t walk up and shake these witnesses.

I would follow up on that no trash service...easy enough to verify. Seems he just drops the trash wherever he can....saving money?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Don't know about love triangle but agree re BH, if it had been investigated minus tunnel vision surely a competent LE would have looked at evryone there that night and that includes BH. Was his blood alcohol ever tested, was jeep and plow ever forensically examined. There was testimony that he's a bit of a boozer yes? And re the time line it's a bit fuzzy but isn't he claiming he left BAs between 12.30 and 1am? What if etc...only my speculations go toward accident and stressing they are just conjecture and I don't think there is any hard evidence just suggestive re timeline and some of the testimony I've heard from BH himselh and other witnesses.moo

Higgins Jeep is a red herring, nothing more. He and the McCabes are using it to try to discredit the three independent witnesses who claim they saw Karen in her car alone, presumably waiting for John to return or text. By attempting to place the Jeep in between them and Karen, they are trying to make the case that the young people waiting for Julie Nagle could not have seen her.

As for me, I'm going to believe the three witnesses who have no skin in the game. Higgins was likely parked somewhere in that large driveway.

 

[ch_13]

sorry then- I have had mis information all along in my head.
deleted my original post but I still think as an undercover agent
he might have routinely disposed of things in an unusual way and
that his situation in this State criminal case raises a lot of possible legal issues. IMO.

BH wasn't an undercover agent. Everyone knew he worked for ATF. In fact, he had just come back from a police funeral. And he spent his free time hanging around in bars with his cop buddies. An undercover agent would never publicly associate with other LE.

This was his personal phone and should not have had anything secret or official on it. BH also had a separate work phone. There was no reason for him to go to a military base to destroy it and he didn't do that in any official capacity.

I'm not sure what legal issues you think are at stake. Nothing about his work is at issue. And federal agents are still subject to state laws.

 

[turaj]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795491715853300053

She woke up the niece at 4:30 am frantic and outta control. As I suspected KR was too agitated to just wait until someone discovered John’s body. She even said to the niece “maybe I hit him, did I hit him?”

It makes absolutely no sense if she supposedly dropped him off, he walked towards the house and she left, and if she supposedly woke up and was worried simply because he wasn’t home.

Waking up frantic, waking up the children, wondering out loud if you hit him…..if this isn’t a confession to murder I don’t know what is. She completely abandons the children after she kills John, which proves she never cared for those kids. She never had a bond with them. Who abandons grieving children after their guardian is supposedly beaten by his friends and left to freeze to death? Especially THESE children who have already suffered unimaginable loss and grief? Who does that? Someone who isn’t sorry John is dead and can’t even pretend to grieve. That’s who.

JMO

I see it less as a "confession to murder" than as a woman coming off a night where she had major fight in the car with her live in boyfriend and both were intoxicated (even for them as they are regular heavy drinkers). I think she considered that she maybe was responsible for the death but memory impacted by lots of booze. But now with no real investigation of the crime scene that night jurors are left with the case in front of them...and as of one month into this trial no concrete evidence that Karen did this let alone planned it.

 

[Marie A]

Had this been an ethical and professional defense team they would’ve advised/urged/pushed KR to go with a manslaughter defense. I don’t know if they did or not obv. They could’ve credibly argued that the couple’s relationship was in trouble and nearing its end, and they were fighting a lot. They had been drinking and fought on the way to the house. KR accidentally hit John, panicked and went home. Then came back. Now…..there are hurdles with this defense to be sure because I think the evidence shows she *intentionally* ran him over. But this defense would’ve been her best shot at not doing 25 to life.

I suspect, however, that she has refused to acknowledge any culpability for John’s death to her lawyers and it was her decision to go on the offensive and blame his friends/victims. This is a win-win for the lawyers because these types of underhanded and disgraceful tactics are sensationalized by CourtTV and the like, who give these defense lawyers breathless coverage. Everyone gets paid by the sensationalism. KR will be in an orange jumpsuit soon enough and will spend the rest of her life in prison, where she belongs no doubt.

JMO

Well stated!


I agree except for the last line. I don’t think she will spend too long behind bars.
Just IMHO

 

[turaj]

Higgins Jeep is a red herring, nothing more. He and the McCabes are using it to try to discredit the three independent witnesses who claim they saw Karen in her car alone, presumably waiting for John to return or text. By attempting to place the Jeep in between them and Karen, they are trying to make the case that the young people waiting for Julie Nagle could not have seen her.

As for me, I'm going to believe the three witnesses who have no skin in the game. Higgins was likely parked somewhere in that large driveway.

was the idea that Karen said she did not want to go in ...they argued....John was going to go in and come back or what? I mean it seems like she waited for him to go in ? The sad thing here is the only one that can really tell this story is Karen and she will not get on the stand. I want to hear the whole play by play as she remembers it from the time they arrived. I think he went in and straight down to the basement which apparently can happen without the others seeing him.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I would follow up on that no trash service...easy enough to verify. Seems he just drops the trash wherever he can....saving money?

I've heard he lives in Brewster, but one other has said Centerville. Both have regular trash pick up. There's usually a fee, but maybe he just prefers to save a few dollars and dump his whiskey bottles at the military base.

 

[turaj]

I know there was a media blackout so we couldn’t hear the children’s testimony but I wonder how Jackson and Yanetti were able to cope without being able to berate and accuse the minor children of crimes. Does the defense say the children are part of the cover up conspiracy? I’m assuming not but you never know with this defense team.

JMO

transcript via media reports are that it was short. Jackson not in court so Yanetti handled the cross..short sweet and basically his point was neither JOhn or Karen even lifted a finger to strike the other. Lalley tried to make the point that they had fights (breaking news live ins have fights). Yanetti seemed to handle it well...each side made their points and it seemed fine. Must have been tough in the courtroom.

 

[HarmonyE.]

was the idea that Karen said she did not want to go in ...they argued....John was going to go in and come back or what? I mean it seems like she waited for him to go in ? The sad thing here is the only one that can really tell this story is Karen and she will not get on the stand. I want to hear the whole play by play as she remembers it from the time they arrived. I think he went in and straight down to the basement which apparently can happen without the others seeing him.

Read said in a news interview she was uncomfortable going in as she didn't hear an invite and her stomach bothering her. She was waiting to hear back from him about what the plan was but she never heard from him again.

The three occupants of the car that came to pick up Julie Nagle saw her in her car as she was waiting. And at least one of them was very clear that the lights at the back of her car looked fine.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I've heard he lives in Brewster, but one other has said Centerville. Both have regular trash pick up. There's usually a fee, but maybe he just prefers to save a few dollars and dump his whiskey bottles at the military base.

As someone mentioned above, the Barry Morphew way to dispose of evidence all while claiming to be "cheap".

 

[turaj]

If you went out drinking with your partner and you left them at their friend's place wouldn't you think that they passed out on their couch? I wouldn't jump right away to 'something happened'. What was the plan when she dropped him off? Was he supposed to call her to come pick him up? Was one of his friends supposed to drive him home? We haven't heard. Because I don't think there was a plan.

I think everyone was drinking, KR was impaired (along with everyone else). They get to BA's house. KR doesn't want to go in because BH is there (jeep in the driveway) and she knows she had started something with him making things weird. She gets into an argument with JO and tells him to GTFO of the car or he tells her to pound sand.

A few hours later KR wakes up on the couch, still drunk, remembers the spat and 'something happened' when JO got out of the car. Starts freaking out, wakes people up, makes calls, heads out to go look for JO. I think she hit him. Did she mean to kill him? No. However she was impaired.

Why all the suspicious testimony? A group of people that should know better were all drinking and driving that night. That's illegal and they could have all lost their jobs (the ones driving). There's probably a lot of messages back and forth and calls between everyone that was at that house that night. i.e. self serving to cover for the drinking and driving and then having somebody killed in front of the house and laying dead on the lawn. They all went into self preservation mode and by doing so they prevented their 'friend' JO from having the justice he deserves. Don't even get me started on the terrible police work. They seem incompetent and lazy.

that all sounds plausible but the one hang up I have is the condition of his body and all the damage. The hitting with car just could not do that damage and I think defense will pound that fact hard. I can't get by the body that looks like someone beat the .... out of him.

 

[thebedbug]

Did she do it? I don’t know. It doesn’t even matter at this point. We have rules and procedures and laws for a reason. If we find that the police officers and detectives didn’t follow basic rules of evidence and procedure, we cannot send someone to prison. And the whole situation here just stinks to high heaven as my granny would’ve said.

If the evidence shows she did it, of course she can be sent to prison.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795491715853300053

She woke up the niece at 4:30 am frantic and outta control. As I suspected KR was too agitated to just wait until someone discovered John’s body. She even said to the niece “maybe I hit him, did I hit him?”

It makes absolutely no sense if she supposedly dropped him off, he walked towards the house and she left, and if she supposedly woke up and was worried simply because he wasn’t home.

Waking up frantic, waking up the children, wondering out loud if you hit him…..if this isn’t a confession to murder I don’t know what is. She completely abandons the children after she kills John, which proves she never cared for those kids. She never had a bond with them. Who abandons grieving children after their guardian is supposedly beaten by his friends and left to freeze to death? Especially THESE children who have already suffered unimaginable loss and grief? Who does that? Someone who isn’t sorry John is dead and can’t even pretend to grieve. That’s who.

JMO

re: her behavior that night. I 100% agree. I just don't see an "innocent" explanation for it. She definitely knew something was up beyond "John wasn't home."

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

It was stricken yes. but I'm glad he said it. jmo if it was sincere (and even if tactical could still very much be sincere) I'm glad JO's nephew had an adult treating him with empathy in that moment, jmo

Yes, and I absolutely agree. I was just wanting to check. And yes, once the bell is rung…….. but it was appropriate even if stricken IMO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The jury will have figured out that the kids are living either with Paul O'Keefe who spends all day trying to stare Read down, or their patneral grandmother, who also appears to be angry with Read. So they're likely not unbaised at this point.

What the jury doesn't know is that Jen McCabe is also heavily involved in their lives now.

 

[turaj]

I did not follow this case until about a week into the trial...have gone back to get caught up but wondering how did they end up with a calendar this screwed up??? I mean one day this week then next week completely chopped up with dark day....1/2 days etc. Some have said it was tough to get a jury so they accommodated all the days off they needed....some have said it was put on calendar sooner than expected and judge has calendar commitments etc. Whatever it is I think it impacts the jury to have it be this disjointed . A bigger chance to lose jurors or have misconduct or illness etc. I find it hard to follow with so much time off and not sure I have ever watched a trial like this. Also the courtroom is so bad for this trial and must have been all that was available. I feel the heat in that room thru my computer screen...and if they turn on fan can't hear testimony???? Come on this is the 20th century. And in my opinion unless Lally changes his style and comes up with some solid evidence to covercome the reasonable doubt Ms. Karen will be holding a victory parade in June. She really thinks she is a star and the crowds confirm her ego.

 

[jepop]

Higgins Jeep is a red herring, nothing more. He and the McCabes are using it to try to discredit the three independent witnesses who claim they saw Karen in her car alone, presumably waiting for John to return or text. By attempting to place the Jeep in between them and Karen, they are trying to make the case that the young people waiting for Julie Nagle could not have seen her.

As for me, I'm going to believe the three witnesses who have no skin in the game. Higgins was likely parked somewhere in that large driveway.

I definately lean towards Nagles and co telling truth and BH's jeep and plow were likely parked elsewhere (driveway like you say but in any case out of Ryan Nagle's and the driver buddy's line of sight). I'm just tossing a few of my own ideas around in my head and sometimes writing a post when triggered by other comments to which I relate. Not committed to any theory atm. Trying to approach from juror perepective as much as possible so am really looking forward to autopsy evidence, accident reconstruction and defense destroying it vis a vis KR's lexus. Only thing I'm personally certain of is KR didn't hit him with her lexus at 12.30am or any other time imo and investigation was a damn hot mess! jmo

 

[jepop]

Yes, and I absolutely agree. I was just wanting to check. And yes, once the bell is rung…….. but it was appropriate even if stricken IMO.

Ofcourse. I realised you just wanted to check and I just wanted to help by answering

 

[turaj]

The jury will have figured out that the kids are living either with Paul O'Keefe who spends all day trying to stare Read down, or their patneral grandmother, who also appears to be angry with Read. So they're likely not unbaised at this point.

What the jury doesn't know is that Jen McCabe is also heavily involved in their lives now.

one thing that stuck out in some reading or testimony is that KR's parents warned her about the situation. I think she told them it was tough and that she was in this pseudo parenting role not because she wanted it but she wanted to date JO. They warned her to think about getting out if things were not going well. I can imagine things were tough in that house with KR there. Kids probably said more than once "you are not our mother" and bet it was not easy for JO either. Part of the issue per their conversations were that they were not getting help from the rest of the fam....I think about that as I watch Paul sitting there in court.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I did not follow this case until about a week into the trial...have gone back to get caught up but wondering how did they end up with a calendar this screwed up??? I mean one day this week then next week completely chopped up with dark day....1/2 days etc. Some have said it was tough to get a jury so they accommodated all the days off they needed....some have said it was put on calendar sooner than expected and judge has calendar commitments etc. Whatever it is I think it impacts the jury to have it be this disjointed . A bigger chance to lose jurors or have misconduct or illness etc. I find it hard to follow with so much time off and not sure I have ever watched a trial like this. Also the courtroom is so bad for this trial and must have been all that was available. I feel the heat in that room thru my computer screen...and if they turn on fan can't hear testimony???? Come on this is the 20th century.

It's a 200 year old building and the defense objected to the original much larger courtroom because the way it is set up, several jury members would not be able to see the faces of those testifying. And who would want to miss the face of Jen McCabe as she scowled and jeered through her testimony?

The fan view isn't to block out sound in the courtroom. The person filming goes to the fan when they can't film the proceedings. As I recall, there is a white noise machine that the judge hits when she doesn't want the jury or spectators to hear sidebar conversations.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I sure hope those poor kids are getting counseling. I cannot imagine what their life views must be at this point. Their mother dies of cancer, father has a heart attack and dies 2 months later, then their uncle adopts them and dies a few years later. They must feel like you can't trust or depend on ANYBODY. It is beyond sad.