MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

[nodamselindistress]

sorry then- I have had mis information all along in my head

I believe I heard Jackson make the same mistake in cross!

 

[jepop]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795548814511628501

judge seems to love using the pronoun 'it' huh?

"can you do it quickly?"
"fix it"

and ofcourse that classic
"ask it the right way"
Moo

 

[jepop]

And help me out here, aren’t there some references that KR had said something like that in the form of asking a question: ‘Did I hit him?’

IIRC both have been given on different occasions. What testimony or evidence speaks to this? Thanks in advance. MOO

Mostly JMc from memory, possibly KerryR but can't recall exactly I think she was more attributing to KR statements re is he dead? (once or twice?) and something about a snow plow sveral times which still interests me. jmo!

 

[Universecalling]

I believe I heard Jackson make the same mistake in cross!

I’m beginning to think JA is making those “mistakes” on purpose.
I just don’t see him making those mistakes. Thee is a reason why he does it. Maybe he gets more out of a witness when they have to explain after his mistake.
Also, was told by someone from Canton that the person he pointed to sitting in the audience, mistaking him for BH’s lawyer was someone actually from DOJ.
Thought that was brilliant, if that is how he sacrificed looking stupid but made sure Higgy knows he better tell the truth.

 

[KMouse]

Yikes…. so was that apparent delay perhaps a ‘gift’? A timing delay? An opportunity? For avoidance? Makes me wonder if perhaps the ‘dates’ were ‘adjusted’? I won’t comment here on the investigative, prosecution witnesses, or prosecution’s tactics. Suffice to say - Quite amazing. Yet again. MOO

This was 2022 right? The 23rd is a Friday. It would have taken a few days after the weekend to make it's way to the recipients. However, the timing is interesting so somebody could have given then the heads up.

 

[acutename]

This was 2022 right? The 23rd is a Friday. It would have taken a few days after the weekend to make it's way to the recipients. However, the timing is interesting so somebody could have given then the heads up.

if it is a small office, it could be difficult to keep things confidential- limited printers, limited clerical staff-people could just "see" things, IMO

 

[Weki]

Had this been an ethical and professional defense team they would’ve advised/urged/pushed KR to go with a manslaughter defense. I don’t know if they did or not obv. They could’ve credibly argued that the couple’s relationship was in trouble and nearing its end, and they were fighting a lot. They had been drinking and fought on the way to the house. KR accidentally hit John, panicked and went home. Then came back. Now…..there are hurdles with this defense to be sure because I think the evidence shows she *intentionally* ran him over. But this defense would’ve been her best shot at not doing 25 to life.

I suspect, however, that she has refused to acknowledge any culpability for John’s death to her lawyers and it was her decision to go on the offensive and blame his friends/victims. This is a win-win for the lawyers because these types of underhanded and disgraceful tactics are sensationalized by CourtTV and the like, who give these defense lawyers breathless coverage. Everyone gets paid by the sensationalism. KR will be in an orange jumpsuit soon enough and will spend the rest of her life in prison, where she belongs no doubt.

JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

. Now…..there are hurdles with this defense to be sure because I think the evidence shows she *intentionally* ran him over.

JMO

RSBM -- what evidence shows that? Nothing introduced in this trial yet.

 

[jepop]

We know there is so many bizarre comments said, never mind behaviors. It was eerie and odd to me that KR either called or texted Higgins and just 'said' John's dead'. Higgins did not respond as not getting involved with her stuff and sounds like he def already KNEW and knew plenty. I'd of said, John died, or i found John and he died, he was outside Alberts yard. THINGS. It sounds like that is all she wrote, JOHN'S DEAD.

You know maybe maybe maybe as KR was leaving BA's very drunk she glimpsed something odd to do with JO and a snow plow but cos so out of it, just passed in and out of her head. Then wakes up at 4.30am with this odd feeling re night before but can't recall why ...just snow plow and did something happen? snow plow? wait a min did i hit him? That would explain a lot to me in regards to KerryR's testimony and BH (not accusing BH at all, just trying to figure out why snow plow was on edge of KR's mind that morning (apparently). So...maybe later that day or whenever it was, KR thought something like 'BH snow plow hit JO? did it?'. Might go some way towards explaining "John's dead" text to BH if KR thought that at the time and she thought that maybe BH knew he had or that maybe BH thought he had. Just rambling idea and speculation. moo

 

[KMouse]

There sure is a A LOT of assumptions in this post. If I went out drinking with my partner and I woke up to find she was gone, I would be freaking out and agitated. Guess that means I'm a murderer. MOO

If you went out drinking with your partner and you left them at their friend's place wouldn't you think that they passed out on their couch? I wouldn't jump right away to 'something happened'. What was the plan when she dropped him off? Was he supposed to call her to come pick him up? Was one of his friends supposed to drive him home? We haven't heard. Because I don't think there was a plan.

I think everyone was drinking, KR was impaired (along with everyone else). They get to BA's house. KR doesn't want to go in because BH is there (jeep in the driveway) and she knows she had started something with him making things weird. She gets into an argument with JO and tells him to GTFO of the car or he tells her to pound sand.

A few hours later KR wakes up on the couch, still drunk, remembers the spat and 'something happened' when JO got out of the car. Starts freaking out, wakes people up, makes calls, heads out to go look for JO. I think she hit him. Did she mean to kill him? No. However she was impaired.

Why all the suspicious testimony? A group of people that should know better were all drinking and driving that night. That's illegal and they could have all lost their jobs (the ones driving). There's probably a lot of messages back and forth and calls between everyone that was at that house that night. i.e. self serving to cover for the drinking and driving and then having somebody killed in front of the house and laying dead on the lawn. They all went into self preservation mode and by doing so they prevented their 'friend' JO from having the justice he deserves. Don't even get me started on the terrible police work. They seem incompetent and lazy.

 

[Wishbone]

Had this been an ethical and professional defense team they would’ve advised/urged/pushed KR to go with a manslaughter defense. I don’t know if they did or not obv. They could’ve credibly argued that the couple’s relationship was in trouble and nearing its end, and they were fighting a lot. They had been drinking and fought on the way to the house. KR accidentally hit John, panicked and went home. Then came back. Now…..there are hurdles with this defense to be sure because I think the evidence shows she *intentionally* ran him over. But this defense would’ve been her best shot at not doing 25 to life.

I suspect, however, that she has refused to acknowledge any culpability for John’s death to her lawyers and it was her decision to go on the offensive and blame his friends/victims. This is a win-win for the lawyers because these types of underhanded and disgraceful tactics are sensationalized by CourtTV and the like, who give these defense lawyers breathless coverage. Everyone gets paid by the sensationalism. KR will be in an orange jumpsuit soon enough and will spend the rest of her life in prison, where she belongs no doubt.

JMO

IMO it would unethical for a defendant's attorney to advise their client plead guilty to anything when they are innocent. Then to make up a story for a guilty plea is just ludicrous.

 

[KMouse]

if it is a small office, it could be difficult to keep things confidential- limited printers, limited clerical staff-people could just "see" things, IMO

Exactly. It's usually the admin staff that look after the paperwork side of things.

 

[jepop]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but within four days of JOK's death, KR was ordered to avoid anyone in his family. Also, she was accused of killing him. If I was (falsely) accused of killing someone, I would go into self-preservation mode, personally, especially if the local cops are in cahoots with the Albert residence, etc, and closing ranks against me, getting the O'Keefes on side with them as well. At the of the day, she was an outsider in more ways than one, as it has been demonstrated.

Just to be factual, she didn't say "to the niece "maybe I hit him, did I hit him?"" The niece testified that she overheard KR saying that to Kerry.

Also, perhaps KR had a strong premonition (mixed with her inebriated state) that something had happened to John when she woke up that morning. And maybe she immediately felt an intuitive sense of responsibility for dropping him off and her mind went to their last interaction. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, which is why a wide swath of people don't find it impossible.

That being said, it also is possible that she hit him, left the scene, and then began to "create a narrative" which involved bread-crumbing "not realising that she accidentally killed him until she woke up the next morning," backing her car into his, getting Kerry and JM to watch her "discover" JOK's body, etc. That being said, there hasn't been any indication that she knowingly hit him and left him for dead. In fact, the logistics of where he was found, his injuries, and the suspicious manner the broken taillight "evidence" was collected, suggest that she didn't hit him, and the answers can be found in the Albert household and on all those now destroyed/rehomed mobiles.

Personally, I change my mobile once every 3 - 4 years (or if I can stretch it longer). Because, $$$.

Great post! So important to be factual if stating something as if it is a fact. I love WS for this reason. Misinformation can spread like wild fire out there in sm when being factual loses precedence. jmo

 

[HarmonyE.]

You know maybe maybe maybe as KR was leaving BA's very drunk she glimpsed something odd to do with JO and a snow plow but cos so out of it, just passed in and out of her head. Then wakes up at 4.30am with this odd feeling re night before but can't recall why ...just snow plow and did something happen? snow plow? wait a min did i hit him? That would explain a lot to me in regards to KerryR's testimony and BH (not accusing BH at all, just trying to figure out why snow plow was on edge of KR's mind that morning (apparently).

John's house is at the beginning of a side street, but it's just off Pleasant Street, which is a main road. She probably listened to plows going back and forth in the early morning hours.

Anyone who has had a teen stay out too late with an alleged dead phone battery has probably experienced those moments of scary, almost irrational thoughts going through your mind.

Maybe she had some bad feeling about some of the people in the house and her thoughts started racing. If he decided to leave the Fairview house without a ride and was angry with her and didn't call, would he have just decided to walk the 2 miles home? Ubers would have been hard to get at that time of night in the snow, did he have a mishap walking home intoxicated?

It may be an irrational thought. John didn't even have a coat with him. But I believe it's likely Karen had more drinks at home that night and whipped herself into a nervous frenzy. First becauase she thought he ghosted her or was possibly cheating on her, and then later because she started to become very worried about him.

 

[Wishbone]

snipped
Maybe Dean Wormer in “Animal House” got it wrong.

Maybe fat, drunk and stupid is a good way to go through life.

Just ask Brian “Butt Dial” Higgins, the ATF agent who was a very dear friend of dead BPD Officer John O’Keefe, even though he couldn’t be bothered to attend his funeral, despite the fact that he flies around the country for other funerals of people he never met.

Yesterday, after a very bad day under cross-examination Friday, Higgins waddled back onto the witness stand. He looked like he’d spent the weekend swilling his favorite – “Jameson and gin-jah” – and brushing up on his favorite self-help book.

“Testifying Under Cross Examination for Dummies.”

Howie Carr: ATF agent trashes phone and reputation

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[HarmonyE.]

If you went out drinking with your partner and you left them at their friend's place wouldn't you think that they passed out on their couch? I wouldn't jump right away to 'something happened'. What was the plan when she dropped him off? Was he supposed to call her to come pick him up? Was one of his friends supposed to drive him home? We haven't heard. Because I don't think there was a plan.

I think everyone was drinking, KR was impaired (along with everyone else). They get to BA's house. KR doesn't want to go in because BH is there (jeep in the driveway) and she knows she had started something with him making things weird. She gets into an argument with JO and tells him to GTFO of the car or he tells her to pound sand.

A few hours later KR wakes up on the couch, still drunk, remembers the spat and 'something happened' when JO got out of the car. Starts freaking out, wakes people up, makes calls, heads out to go look for JO. I think she hit him. Did she mean to kill him? No. However she was impaired.

Why all the suspicious testimony? A group of people that should know better were all drinking and driving that night. That's illegal and they could have all lost their jobs (the ones driving). There's probably a lot of messages back and forth and calls between everyone that was at that house that night. i.e. self serving to cover for the drinking and driving and then having somebody killed in front of the house and laying dead on the lawn. They all went into self preservation mode and by doing so they prevented their 'friend' JO from having the justice he deserves. Don't even get me started on the terrible police work. They seem incompetent and lazy.

If you really think these people are lying and denying tons of verifyable data just because they were drinking and driving that night, we're watching a different trial. These cops drink and drive without fear all the time. Higgins even shrugged when Jackson mentioned his driving after all of those Jamesons like it was a silly question.

People walking and driving by the place where the body ended up without seeing a thing. Their eyes saw everthing but that. No one hearing a thing. Hos long to die at 2;27. Butt dialing and butt answering and a 22 second conversation at 2 am that never happened. Illegally using FBI equipment to avoid handing a phone over. Phone destruction, one at a damn military base on Cape Cod that you can't just "drive through".

I could go on and on but there is much more to come. The prosecution is winding down and they still haven't presented a case. The defense hasn't even started yet.

 

[jepop]

Yes, and seems perhaps both may have been coached a tad IMO? That answer from each IIUC about neither having raised a hand against the other?

Also, IIRC, from testimony earlier today at the end with M1:

“DY says to M1: “I’m so sorry you were made to come here today”

IIUC there might have been an objection to that statement by the prosecution, sustained, and that statement above in bold was perhaps stricken? MOO

It was stricken yes. but I'm glad he said it. jmo if it was sincere (and even if tactical could still very much be sincere) I'm glad JO's nephew had an adult treating him with empathy in that moment, jmo

 

[Derph]

Come on! It makes total sense because he DOESN’T HAVE TRASH SERVICE. Lol. Did you hear that? Have you ever heard such a thing? So he drives to a military base to empty his trash weekly. I seriously don’t know how the defense team doesn’t walk up and shake these witnesses.

The ol barry Morphew Garbage Disposal Plan "A" method of destroying evidence. Hey it worked for him!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795491715853300053

She woke up the niece at 4:30 am frantic and outta control. As I suspected KR was too agitated to just wait until someone discovered John’s body. She even said to the niece “maybe I hit him, did I hit him?”

It makes absolutely no sense if she supposedly dropped him off, he walked towards the house and she left, and if she supposedly woke up and was worried simply because he wasn’t home.

Waking up frantic, waking up the children, wondering out loud if you hit him…..if this isn’t a confession to murder I don’t know what is. She completely abandons the children after she kills John, which proves she never cared for those kids. She never had a bond with them. Who abandons grieving children after their guardian is supposedly beaten by his friends and left to freeze to death? Especially THESE children who have already suffered unimaginable loss and grief? Who does that? Someone who isn’t sorry John is dead and can’t even pretend to grieve. That’s who.

JMO

And yet a colleague lays dead on a friends front yard and he can't be bothered to get his butt up, go outside and see if there is ANYTHING he can do to help 1. find out what happened and if he can offer any assistance to help save his life and 2. find out who hurt him. That's what doesn't make any sense at all.

Then of course we have ALL other shady stuff like: shoddy and incompetent investigation, butt dials and 500 other things that point to a cover-up and frame job.

*3000 pages of a FBI investigation into the investigation was given to the DEFENSE TEAM! That is all you need to know about this.

 

[jepop]

Sorry if this has been mentioned/discussed, but in what world would the investigators not once consider BH a suspect? I guess they've never said if he was, but I disagress. Once the investigators initially saw those texts, why would they not pursue investigating BH as a co-conspirator? I believe it might be feasible to drum up a motive of an affair gone horribly wrong aka a "love triangle" with KR, BH, and JO.

Not that I believe any of that, because I certainly don't think that's what happened. I just find it curious that route wasn't taken or explored.

Don't know about love triangle but agree re BH, if it had been investigated minus tunnel vision surely a competent LE would have looked at evryone there that night and that includes BH. Was his blood alcohol ever tested, was jeep and plow ever forensically examined. There was testimony that he's a bit of a boozer yes? And re the time line it's a bit fuzzy but isn't he claiming he left BAs between 12.30 and 1am? What if etc...only my speculations go toward accident and stressing they are just conjecture and I don't think there is any hard evidence just suggestive re timeline and some of the testimony I've heard from BH himself and other witnesses.moo

 

[turaj]

Hearing that both kids referred to KR as the defendant. IMO they didn't come up with that on their own.JMO

Can you just imagine the drama in that O'Keefe household. First loss of mother followed closely by loss of father. Then John steps in as father/mother and also trying to maintain what seems to be a pretty good social life. Then enter stage right Karen...not just dating John but living there and now assuming mother roles. From their testimony and other news reports...Karen did well with the Son but not the daughter...so lots of tension there. By their own testimony they hear fights and John actually telling Karen to leave. By the time they are told John is dead and now Karen accused of murdering them they must be numb to all of this stuff. I guess they are now with Grandparents. I assume they think Karen is responsible for this. So many adults in and out of their lives and they are still so young.