MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #7

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Do you really think any one of those officers is going to want to be the cop who snitches about all these irregularities? Would he lose his job or face retaliation by his fellow officers? It doesn't have to be multiple people who actively engaged in a cover up, but instead turning a blind eye to all the shenanigans, and department protocol violations.

imo.
thank you I appreciate your reply about the LE conspiracy angle.
I really want to evaluate where the masses( pro karen) are coming from about this.

One can also look at it that a lone wolf (proctor) has no pack to back it up.
This appears to be a conspiracy inside the other conspiracy. How many conspiracies can we have all the while Karen is telling everyone she hit him and acting like a mad woman??


IMO Its a stretch to suggest that everyone, even a few.... in LE is weak and part of corruption.
Nobody gained a damn thing from the death of JO.

Just what if.... all these people in very important jobs.....are actually doing their job, by the book... and what they are swearing under oath in a court of law. Is true.
The first responders who witnessed what karen said for example are not part of the investigation team, yet they have to be in the collusion as well.

Karens friends in front of the first responders...telling her to shut her mouth. Are actually trying to help her.

But most are choosing not to see all these good people doing exactly what you would expect them to do in this moment of crisis.
In a blizzard for good measure.
 

6/7/24

How much longer will the Karen Read trial last?​

So how much longer will the trial last, and how long will it be until the jury gets the case?

Judge Beverly Cannone shed some light on this subject at the end of this week's proceedings on Thursday, saying that after talking with the prosecution and defense teams, she is confident that the jury will get the case for deliberations by the last week of June.

"We'll know better next week," she said.

If that schedule holds true, that will mean jurors have heard nearly two full months of testimony before they begin their deliberations.
 
Do you really think any one of those officers is going to want to be the cop who snitches about all these irregularities? Would he lose his job or face retaliation by his fellow officers? It doesn't have to be multiple people who actively engaged in a cover up, but instead turning a blind eye to all the shenanigans, and department protocol violations.

imo.
So all cops are not to be trusted to do the right thing and they will all automatically turn a blind eye to a coverup?

Just because they are cops?

I can't agree with that.
 
thank you I appreciate your reply about the LE conspiracy angle.
I really want to evaluate where the masses( pro karen) are coming from about this.

One can also look at it that a lone wolf (proctor) has no pack to back it up.
This appears to be a conspiracy inside the other conspiracy. How many conspiracies can we have all the while Karen is telling everyone she hit him and acting like a mad woman??


IMO Its a stretch to suggest that everyone, even a few.... in LE is weak and part of corruption.
Nobody gained a damn thing from the death of JO.

Just what if.... all these people in very important jobs.....are actually doing their job, by the book... and what they are swearing under oath in a court of law. Is true.
The first responders who witnessed what karen said for example are not part of the investigation team, yet they have to be in the collusion as well.

Karens friends in front of the first responders...telling her to shut her mouth. Are actually trying to help her.

But most are choosing not to see all these good people doing exactly what you would expect them to do in this moment of crisis.
In a blizzard for good measure.
I'm not a believer of police conspiracy theories unless there's solid proof that it actually happened.

And the bigger the conspiracy, the harder it is to prove. JMO.
 
So all cops are not to be trusted to do the right thing and they will all automatically turn a blind eye to a coverup?

Just because they are cops?

I can't agree with that.

That is not at all what I said at all. I said "those" officers. You know, the ones who have given testimony, much of it being questionable. The ones who are under federal and local investigations. But it's not because they are cops. It's because they are dirty and corrupt cops.
 
That is not at all what I said at all. I said "those" officers. You know, the ones who have given testimony, much of it being questionable. The ones who are under federal and local investigations. But it's not because they are cops. It's because they are dirty and corrupt cops.
I apologize. I didn't understand that you were only talking about a few individual cops.

Why would these few cops fear for their jobs if they told the truth?
 
So all cops are not to be trusted to do the right thing and they will all automatically turn a blind eye to a coverup?

Just because they are cops?

I can't agree with that.
I can't either.

There are millions of amazing cops everywhere.
Even when sloppy police work at play there is no evidence of a conspiracy here.

Thats my opinion and it doesn't have to sit with anyone.

It is interesting reading posts that take an opposite view of your own.
Makes you think harder...question more.
 
I can't either.

There are millions of amazing cops everywhere.
Even when sloppy police work at play there is no evidence of a conspiracy here.

Thats my opinion and it doesn't have to sit with anyone.

It is interesting reading posts that take an opposite view of your own.
Makes you think harder...question more.
A poorly done sloppy investigation is not the same thing as a widespread conspiracy to conceal the truth.

I also like to see what others think about a case. Keeps things interesting. JMO.
 
I can't either.

There are millions of amazing cops everywhere.
Even when sloppy police work at play there is no evidence of a conspiracy here.

Thats my opinion and it doesn't have to sit with anyone.

It is interesting reading posts that take an opposite view of your own.
Makes you think harder...question more.
It is interesting. On the news tonight, it reported on 2 police stories. The first story was three cops who saved a 8 year old who was choking on candy, and was unresponsive, when they got their "LIFEVAC", and thus saved the boy. The story that followed was a video showing 2 Burbank officers, dump a guy who sought help at a Burbank hospital for a broken leg. The.y drove to another jurisdiction, and pushed the guy from the police vehicle and then drove away.

Good and bad
 
Sorry if this was said before but one other thought that is bothering me about this case is how precise and skilled KR’s driving has to be if she stopped her, put it in it reversed and then accelerated for 60 to 24 mph. The prosecution has argued she was heavily intoxicated and enraged. If true, would her emotional duress or rage in addition to the alcohol allow her to pull such a maneuver around a curve?

Even sober drivers lose control of their vehicles and cause damage to their vehicles when they are in state of anger or rage and are doing simple tasks as pulling out of parking spot or passing in front of another vehicle. Intoxication often impairs drivers ability to multitask, become aware of their surrounds or properly break, park or slow their vehicles. Add rage to it often the drivers can’t focus on anything else other than the source of their rage, not even their own safety, the potential damage of their vehicles or the sleepiness and trickiness of the curving road behind her.

Even if the prosecution is correct that KR was intended to hit JOK with her SUV wouldn’t she have been more likely to hit the curb, drive up on the curb and potentially hit the fire hydrant or the flag pole instead? Such an accident Even if she somehow missed driving on the curb, wouldn’t she have stopped at least a few inches or feet following her vehicle making impact and then run over JOK’s sneaker that still laid on the street right next to the curb? Wouldn’t she have also been more likely to drastically and more notably pull her vehicle towards the left to pull away from the curve as she pulled out and drove away? However, JMcC has noted no such thing in her testimony.

Also, I can’t really make sense for JOK would stand there as KR’s accelerated towards him. Even if he noticed to late her intentions surely by instincts alone he would have yelled out and held him his arms and hands up in a futile attempt to stop her or prevent her vehicle from going further. If so, and he was still holding the glass cup wouldn’t some of the pieces of glass unfortunately pierced his skin and imbedded themselves in his hands and fingers, further injuring him as the force of the oncoming pressed crushed the glass against his outstretched hands?

Even if he threw the glass at the oncoming car wouldn’t more of it have ended up on the street and the curb than near his body due to the force of gravity and their lighter weight? Also, wouldn’t there be trace evidence of the alcoholic beverage or what remained of the liquid at the back of KR’s car, particularly the back windshield where I imagine it would it hit? Even despite the snow some residue of glass particles and articles could have remained or fallen towards the back windshield wipers?

Additionally, BH said he never saw CA but according to BA’s testimony he left Waterfall around 11:59 but he could have let anywhere between then and 12:02 (if you add the time to get into the car and start and warm it). He said it took another 5 minutes to get home. There he had to wait for BH, who arrived before him, remove some of the snow from the driveway and pull out so that BA himself could park on the left side of the driveway. That alone could have taken a minute or two.That could put his arrival home between 12:05-12:07 and actually getting inside between after 12:08 or 12:09. He said after getting inside at some point he had a 5 minute conversation with his nephew CA before going to the bathroom for 5 minutes. This puts the time that CA was seen in the house by BA between 12:13 and 12:14. BA’s daughter said that BH came in right behind her and parents and that her cousin was right by the door when she walked in and everyone else was in the kitchen. So how did BH miss him and where was he during the 5 minute conversation between BA and CA? Also, wouldn’t that imply that CA did not in fact leave exactly at 12:10 as alleged?

Also, CA said his parents had a hard and fast rule about a 12 AM curfew but he didn’t get home until after 12:30-12:35 according to the defense and his father’s testimony. if the judge didn’t sustain Lally’s objection It would have been both interesting and a possible way to ascertain if CA was being truthful about his supposed curfew to know if he did in fact get in trouble or grounded for being late, if his parents called to find out where he was beforehand or if they asked how in fact he got home since no doubt he had the smell of beer on him, there could have been concerns of him or his ride drinking and driving and he was late. Still seems odd to me that no one knew that CMcC was his ride home all this time even though JA’s understandable concern could have led to her to ask and plus he was late. If his parents rule was so set in stone why can’t we hear if he faced any repercussions for being so that night? Especially since his testimony implied he couldn’t have possibly been there at the same time as JOK because of his curfew.

 
Do you really think any one of those officers is going to want to be the cop who snitches about all these irregularities? Would he lose his job or face retaliation by his fellow officers? It doesn't have to be multiple people who actively engaged in a cover up, but instead turning a blind eye to all the shenanigans, and department protocol violations.

imo.
I think you raise a really great point!

Though there are a great many law enforcement officers out there who perform their responsibilities with integrity, there are also still many police officers and departments that embody the pervasive culture of the blue wall of silence. This often means that not only are there police officers unwilling to report on the misconduct, corruption and violence of their fellow brothers and sisters, they often turn a blind eye to these acts as they are being committed. This culture is borne out of both a sense of loyalty, family and immunity that many law enforcement officials are guaranteed by law. As a result, there are many officers who will protect each others and their colleagues careers even if it comes at the costs of sacrificing justice, one’s freedom’s or life or solving crime.

As you have said perfectly, those who uphold the values of their position and the trust their community give them by reporting on the criminal behaviors of those who also wear the shield are often ostracized, suspended, fired, harassed, bullied, transferred or blacklisted from seeking or gaining further promotions. Ideally, the idea of brotherhood in the police academy was to instill a sense of support, belonging and camaraderie or among among fellow police officers who put their lives and well being every single stressful day. In reality however, many departments have used this uniformity to frame innocent civilians to boost their arrest numbers, target minority communities or to overcompensate for incompetence, laziness and egos too proud to ask for help or admit that when they are wrong and too fragile to be held publicly accountable. As shown in NY with There have also been instances of family members often being given undue special treatment or protection from legal consequences if they are stopped or questioned by a cop. (However, tragically this protection doesn’t extend to the 40% families who are victims of domestic violence at the hands of LE officials in the US, in these cases police often take their colleagues side once again putting the brotherhood above the law and the safety of those at great risk of physical, psychological and emotional harm and death). Though things are changing with more officers calling to replace “The Wall of Blue Silence” with the “Wall of Integrity” it would not surprise if out of a sense of loyalty and familiarity with the Albert family, a well known family with a large number of members in the police force, that Proctor would protect them IMO. Though I don’t think of this as a wide spread conspiracy where every single player, like the EMTs, doctors and every officer is involved, I do believe that Proctor, like orher lead investigators and those who ally themselves with him or her have a lot of power when it comes to the preservation or loss of one’s freedom. This was seen multiple times throughout the United States, including in cities like Scottsdale, Az, the State of New York State, Minneapolis and St. Louis, when it comes to the assessing the evidence, determining which piece will or will not share and what leads they chose not to investigate. Some officers in their inherent dishonesty, hate, greed, fame, lust for power, corruption or pathological desire to physically and sexually abuse civilians and prisoners will even frame those that they know are innocent even when compromises the integrity of their investigations and any and all other cases they partook in.





 
Sorry if this was said before but one other thought that is bothering me about this case is how precise and skilled KR’s driving has to be if she stopped her, put it in it reversed and then accelerated for 60 to 24 mph. The prosecution has argued she was heavily intoxicated and enraged. If true, would her emotional duress or rage in addition to the alcohol allow her to pull such a maneuver around a curve?
RSBM. I can't believe I haven't thought to bring this up before as I usually don't need much excuse to bring up a comparable case from my home country ;)

But I've just remembered that there are a lot of similarities between what KR is alleged to have done and this case in Cheshire, England. Boyfriend and girlfriend go out and have drinks at a gathering of his workmates, girlfriend gets jealous because she thinks he is flirting with a colleague, drink drives the pair of them home, they have a massive argument, then she ends up running him over with her car in a drunken rage. Except we know that it actually happened because it was all caught on video (which I've hopefully managed to embed below)


To your point, the video which you're all hopefully able to see, is a lot more what I would expect to see from a vehicular homicide, especially when alcohol is involved. She has to make three attempts to fatally hit him, crashing into parked cars and ultimately ends up dragging him 150 yards down the road!

Not managing to perfectly hit him in a perfect reverse manouver like KR is alleged to have done. I mean, it's certainly possible that JO'K could have had his body in a position to get most if not all of the injuries he was found with. But plausible?

Let's see what the pathologist and reconstructionists have to say in court.


Edit: don't know how to embed the video in here. Sorry!
 
So all cops are not to be trusted to do the right thing and they will all automatically turn a blind eye to a coverup?

Just because they are cops?

I can't agree with that.
Respectfully, taking only facts from everyone’s testimonies into consideration, do you believe they followed proper procedures?

I appreciate your thoughts on their testimonies.
The only way to really form an opinion and have a proper debate on this is if all parties watched the testimonies in their entirety. Not recaps, nothing sped up.

Everyone except young officer Mullaney, did things and said things that are frankly unbelievable (and unacceptable). Keep in mind, most are seasoned, veteran LE, some with over 20 years experience.

So question here is… what is more likely- all of them turned a blind eye to keep in their good ol’ boy network or all are beyond incompetent?

But every testimony has to be watched properly in their entirety (including cross and re-cross) to form a proper conclusion.
 
A poorly done sloppy investigation is not the same thing as a widespread conspiracy to conceal the truth.

I also like to see what others think about a case. Keeps things interesting. JMO.
Keep in mind this is a very small police department. Only about 45 people that have been there for a long time.
This isn’t Boston PD with over 2000.

One more thing. One of the major players, ATF agent Higgins, had an office within the small Canton PD.
That testimony, especially 2day cross is worth a watch.
 
thank you I appreciate your reply about the LE conspiracy angle.
I really want to evaluate where the masses( pro karen) are coming from about this.

One can also look at it that a lone wolf (proctor) has no pack to back it up.
This appears to be a conspiracy inside the other conspiracy. How many conspiracies can we have all the while Karen is telling everyone she hit him and acting like a mad woman??


IMO Its a stretch to suggest that everyone, even a few.... in LE is weak and part of corruption.
Nobody gained a damn thing from the death of JO.

Just what if.... all these people in very important jobs.....are actually doing their job, by the book... and what they are swearing under oath in a court of law. Is true.
The first responders who witnessed what karen said for example are not part of the investigation team, yet they have to be in the collusion as well.

Karens friends in front of the first responders...telling her to shut her mouth. Are actually trying to help her.

But most are choosing not to see all these good people doing exactly what you would expect them to do in this moment of crisis.
In a blizzard for good measure.
To your point: I have several times opined to my spouse, “How many of these people were simply doing their job and got pulled into this whole mess as victims of circumstance?”

I believe the vast majority of EMS and LE were doing just that—their jobs. But somehow, they’ve been ensnared in a greater web of deceit woven by a few rogues. Those rogues just happen to be in positions of authority above those just doing their jobs. Further, those authority figures have their own personal relationships within and amongst themselves.

I can’t speculate as to how deep those relationships run, but testimony thus far has allowed us to see the links. Those established links make me believe Trooper Proctor should’ve let the next guy on duty at 7:00 am take this case. Bukhenik testified that Proctor wasn’t even supposed to be on duty when OJO was pronounced. His actions, even at that point, invite scrutiny. Why was he so keen to take this case on when, by all rights, he should be signing off duty after a 12-hour shift? Why wouldn’t he recuse himself, knowing he had personal relationships with the families involved (the same reason Canton PD recused themselves)? I could possibly see Proctor wanting to be involved if he was seeking justice for a fallen officer, but, IIRC, Troopers were responding to what was essentially a “man down.” They didn’t yet know that OJO was LE. So again, why so keen, Trooper Proctor?

I’m from a small town in Vermont, just a few hours north of Canton. And like Canton, our police force regularly relies on Troopers for investigations of this magnitude. Local PD and the Troopers will inevitably have interpersonal relationships within LE circles and with local citizens. I can absolutely understand the reality of that. What I can’t get past is why Proctor didn’t come forward and just say, “Hey, this is a little too close to home for me, so I shouldn’t be involved.” It would’ve been such an easy thing to do.

Bukhenik, his supervisor, seems to be a level-headed guy. He may have backed him on that point by assigning someone else—say, the next Trooper on the duty roster. If that had happened, we might not be where we are today in this trial.

Disregarding evidence shoddily gathered by Canton PD, sadly, most of the tainted (for lack of a better word) “evidence” has Proctor’s name all over it. While I don’t believe there’s a widespread conspiracy involving every person called to testify, I do believe a few bad apples have ruined the bunch by placing those involved in the precarious position of going with the flow to save face for agencies serving the public and protecting the livelihoods of all families of those involved.
 

Karen Read Calls Out Prosecution | Killer or Cover-up Murder Trial Day 21 Recap​


At about the 18 min marker, the Prosecution and Witness affirm the video of KR's Lexus in the sally port is the fair and accurate condition...
Former Judge Perry Belvin follows with his opinion of the CW, and the evidence as presented.

Thank you for this !

According to the reporter who was inside the courtroom, the jury sat stunned, and silently looked at each other with a look after AJ's cross about the flipped video. Judge Perry said ^^ it was like they were all just handed a " Colossal Dose of Reasonable Doubt right there".

Furthering the discussion on CTV, the word 'Blunder' was made as an attempt to defend/ deflect the CW's admitting this deceitful video.

Umm, 'blunder' isn't going to work during re-direct Lally.
The huge GIANT bell of " Colossal " reasonable doubt has been rung, and the jury will not be able to/ or willing to hear what your excuse might be. They must be mightily offended.

MOO
 
Since there was already an outline of snow melted off a vehicle in that garage, is it the belief that they originally backed the SUV into the garage bay, deleted that video, then pulled it in so that they could fiddle with the light out of camera view? If so, I can't imagine that, at that juncture, they thought ahead to "mirroring" this footage, but at what point did that become an option for them?

JMO MOO
 
It's not that elaborate. Had the investigation been handled normally, the Canton cops would have immediately searched the house, with a warrant if needed. But they deferred to the famous Boston cop who is a Canton cop's brother. All of the people in the house that night would have been quickly brought to a state police barracks and questioned individually in an interview room. No one even knew Colin Albert was in the house for many months, and he was only questioned as part of the TB witness intimidation charges. The scene would have been secured. Measurements taken. Evidence would have properly collected and catalogued.

When you completely skip the critical early phases of an investigation, you open the door to a bad cop like Michael Proctor to come in and play around with things. And play he did. Before anyone asks again why he'd do this, the simple answer is - because he could. His pals the Alberts (remember, Julie promised him a gift when it was all said and done) asked for his help, and because it seemed easy enough for him to do so, he did so.

I have little doubt he's done this before. And this is why this is such a conundrum for the state. DA Morrissey didn't vouch for Proctor because he's a friend. He vouched for him because Proctor has been involved with other high profile murder cases. If Proctor is proven to be a bad cop who manipulates and plants evidence, all of these other cases, including prior convictions, are now in jeopardy.
Why & how would police obtain a warrant for a house connected to a motor vehicle accident?

AN OBVIOUS MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT?

Between Karen’s admitted excited utterances, the witnesses that arrived on scene and physical evidence like shards of taillight & damage to her vehicle

There was literally ZERO EVIDENCE he was beaten or involved in a physical altercation

Typically, people that commit crimes like this HAVE REMORSE, don’t have FILTHY RICH attorneys willing & able to dazzle with this level of smoke & mirrors and bullpoop and PR team churning out propaganda. Most people have somewhat of a conscious and hope to take a plea.

Not Karen though.
Karen doesn’t care. Karen is about Karen 100% of the time.
 
Why & how would police obtain a warrant for a house connected to a motor vehicle accident?

AN OBVIOUS MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT?

Between Karen’s admitted excited utterances, the witnesses that arrived on scene and physical evidence like shards of taillight & damage to her vehicle

There was literally ZERO EVIDENCE he was beaten or involved in a physical altercation

Typically, people that commit crimes like this HAVE REMORSE, don’t have FILTHY RICH attorneys willing & able to dazzle with this level of smoke & mirrors and bullpoop and PR team churning out propaganda. Most people have somewhat of a conscious and hope to take a plea.

Not Karen though.
Karen doesn’t care. Karen is about Karen 100% of the time.

But it's Jen McCabe's obvious lies on the stand that do it for me.....she lied about Karen saying "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him" (by her own testimony, 12 times under oath I think they said). She lied about her middle-of-the-night Google search, "hos long to die in cold." She deleted phone calls and searches from her phone. And texts with, allegedly, her children. Tough hurdles to get over, but we'll have to wait to see what digital forensics experts have to say I guess.

And Karen maybe about Karen 100% of the time, I don't know. I imagine lots of people who have made it to their forties with no spouse and no kids are that way (because they can be). But that doesn't make her a killer. IMO.

IMO MOO
 
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