MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

[iamnotagolem]

IMO the house must have had working electricity and running water. Only the neighbor who rescued the babies said there was not, and it may have been an assumption based on no working lights upstairs plus the extreme mess.
From the news articles, the pot in the basement was under a (working) grow light which indicates electricity. If her FB photos of cooking rice and grilled cheese sandwiches were really taken by her in her kitchen, that would mean the stove was working (guess it could be gas).

If there was no running water, the toilets would stop flushing, and I've only seen reports of feces where the babies and diapers were. In a house that size there was probably no bathroom at all on the second floor, but it seems likely there was a working bath on the ground floor for the 2 adults and 2 older kids to use. They appear clean in all photos, and friends and family would have noticed if they did not have water for washing etc. IMO

I wondered about that, too. I wonder if the upstairs had no electricity. Maybe they shut off the breakers to upstairs so the kids couldn't turn on the lights and attract attention.

 

[Linda7NJ]

FlyLady saved my house and my mind! I love, love, love her!

Those e-mails worked my LAST NERVE!
Who does she think she is telling me when to go to bed? lol


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[Lovejac]

Where in the world did they go to have sex?! Seriously :sick:

The smell of feces, dead animals and babies didn;t spoil the mood?

 

[Lovejac]

Those e-mails worked my LAST NERVE!
Who does she think she is telling me when to go to bed? lol


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Reminds me of Mr. Lovejac. "Get off Websleuths and come to bed!" :shame:

 

[quesarita]

I wondered about that, too. I wonder if the upstairs had no electricity. Maybe they shut off the breakers to upstairs so the kids couldn't turn on the lights and attract attention.

Or just didn't replace light bulbs when they burned out.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Where in the world did they go to have sex?! Seriously :sick:

The smell of feces, dead animals and babies didn;t spoil the mood?

Maybe they got used to it?

Years ago, I made a friend at work, she lived down the street from a pig farm....good grief! The stench was unbearable! I mean literally unbearable!!! She claimed she no longer could smell it.

?????? How does that even happen?


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[Oblio]

Those e-mails worked my LAST NERVE!
Who does she think she is telling me when to go to bed? lol


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I like Un****** Your Habitat and A Slob Comes Clean. Both less annoying, gushy, and pushy.

 

[Oblio]

I'm not sure why that shows six asterisks. It's a four letter word that rhymes with truck.

 

[Oblio]

Maybe they got used to it?

Years ago, I made a friend at work, she lived down the street from a pig farm....good grief! The stench was unbearable! I mean literally unbearable!!! She claimed she no longer could smell it.

?????? How does that even happen?


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NASA has actually studied this, not pig crap, but body odor. After about seven days, it goes away.

 

[wenwe4]

The more that comes out about this, the worse I feel for this poor lady. She's obviously deeply troubled by mental illness.

We need to wait for the autopsies to come back on the dead children before we burn her at the stake.
I really don't think she "did" anything to harm her kids (i.e. intentionally).

This is a poor analogy, but many cats (mine and not-mine) in my neighborhood will come have kittens at my place. I guess they know I'l feed them. Sometimes the strongest and biggest of a litter will just drop dead at a couple weeks of age. The "runts" will sometimes die also, but they can also grow to thrive as well as any. That just shows how unpredictable life (especially early life) is.

She was obviously scared and trying to do the best that she could under her circumstances. Her boyfriend apparently couldn't deal with her "eccentricities" and had moved out of her living quarters. If he didn't notice her pregnancies, who else would?

I think she just tried to raise these kids like she did because she was scared to acknowledge even having the (deceased) kids for one reason or another. Real reason of just one in her head. They are all real to her.

While I appreciate your compassion for her, I don't think I stated anything that inferred 'burning at the stake'. To be fair, I wasn't even talking about the "deceased" babies (or animals for that matter). I am outraged at the level of profound neglect she forced the 3 y/o and the 5 mo old to endure, as evidenced by the descriptions of the behavior those infants displayed toward the neighbor who found them. (ie: unable to walk and talk, never seen sunlight, unfamiliar with being held, violently rocking to self-soothe, maggots in the baby bottle, feces, bugs, etc.)

I mean no disrespect but do you really believe that she tried to do her best for those 2 babies? I think she did try to do the best she could for the older 2 kids - or at least tried much harder to provide (or project to to others) a more "normal" life for them.

Abuse is defined as doing something harmful to someone and neglect is withholding basic needs from someone - so that it presents a harm. Neglect is the opposite end of the spectrum from abuse in that regard - but she caused harm nonetheless. The lack of care and cleanliness is what got an emergent response - the chronic neglect is what got her children taken away and prompted further criminal charges. We are still waiting to hear more about the deceased infants - time will tell.

Thank you for speaking up and voicing your thoughts because I don't want to be the only one on this thread willing to talk about this case.

 

[Oblio]

While I appreciate your compassion for her, I don't think I stated anything that inferred 'burning at the stake'. To be fair, I wasn't even talking about the "deceased" babies (or animals for that matter). I am outraged at the level of profound neglect she forced the 3 y/o and the 5 mo old to endure, as evidenced by the descriptions of the behavior those infants displayed toward the neighbor who found them. (ie: unable to walk and talk, never seen sunlight, unfamiliar with being held, violently rocking to self-soothe, maggots in the baby bottle, feces, bugs, etc.)

I mean no disrespect but do you really believe that she tried to do her best for those 2 babies? I think she did try to do the best she could for the older 2 kids - or at least tried much harder to provide (or project to to others) a more "normal" life for them.

Abuse is defined as doing something harmful to someone and neglect is withholding basic needs from someone - so that it presents a harm. Neglect is the opposite end of the spectrum from abuse in that regard - but she caused harm nonetheless. The lack of care and cleanliness is what got an emergent response - the chronic neglect is what got her children taken away and prompted further criminal charges. We are still waiting to hear more about the deceased infants - time will tell.

Thank you for speaking up and voicing your thoughts because I don't want to be the only one one this thread willing to talk about this case.

This. And I'm the bleeding heart liberal poster who is always trying to see the better side of people.

There are so many ways she could have hidden those kids without causing them so much harm.

Namely, she could have started by taking out the trash, opening a window, providing clean and safe food, air conditioning, holding and loving them, etc. The house was the perfect set up to have them hidden, she didn't need to make it a dump site.

And I don't mean to imply I approve of leaving infants and toddlers unsupervised for hours, but if that were the only issue, I'd be much more forgiving.

Also, naturally, it would have been better if she did something to avoid conception, or put them up for adoption.

 

[wenwe4]

Speaking of air conditioning . . . initially in the video and pictures there was a window AC unit upstairs - the same windows the cleanup crew were seen tossing bio-hazard trash out of. So there was an AC unit installed but it sounds as if the electricity wasn't on or wasn't being used upstairs that day.

I noticed the porch lights were on in one of the videos over the weekend. Was the power cut that day (or even just before) and the authorities got it turned on later to complete the cleaning? Just an observation.

 

[SaucyGal]

This case is so disturbing and sad. I haven't posted in a long time, but this one brought me out of "hiding" so to speak. I knew if anyone were trying to wrap their heads around something like this - it would be you, my fellow WS'ers.


My heart broke for all these children, especially for the two youngest. When I was doing child/family mental health advocacy, reactive attachment disorder was coming more and more into focus. The moment I read about the 3 year old presenting with violent rocking, guttural/screeching type sounds, etc. my mind went back to all the studies and books I've read on attachment disorders. One of the more well known stories of abuse and neglect was the story of "Genie" (not her real name). There is an independent film, 'Mockingbird Don't Sing', as well as a Nova program that chronicles her story as well. My hope is that the 6 mo old was saved in time before further damage was done. I have my reservations about the 3 year old. The developmental and cognitive milestones missed are going to be difficult to overcome. I really hope there are periodical updates to all of the children's progress over time.

I read through every post EM had visible when her FB page was still up right after this happened. I (like everyone else) am trying to wrap my head around her pathology and what role the "father" had in this situation. I have to refresh my memory of the ToS and other rules before posting my questions. I don't want to get in trouble for anything. I have some general questions I want to ask regarding posts EM made on her FB relating to her actions, actions of RR, and EM's mother.

For now, here are some curiosities and questions stemming from MSM stories and things others have posted on here:

Several people have mentioned there was no electricity or running water in the house. How did the neighbor boy rinse out a maggot filled bottle? Why was there a porch light on in the published pics? I think I missed the stories that say there was no electric or water.

How could no one smell the stench on these kids, EM, or RR? I know home smells cling to clothing.

The rest of my questions stem from her postings on FB. Sorry if I rambled.

 

[bflocket]

Sorry, I have the stake and matches at the ready.

IMO allowing feral cats to breed and struggle for survival is NOT nature at work. It's irresponsible human beings neglect.


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As long as I've been posting on this website, I have been as polite as I could possibly be. If I disagreed with something someone has said, I would either bite my lip and go on or plainly state why I disagree.

I was just admonished for feeding stray animals when I was trying to make a point about the case. That was pure, unadulterated and expletive-enhanced rudeness. If I didn't take what little care I can of a cat that's scared of me, they'd wind up shot, starve to death or get run over. I still don't know what I've done wrong.

If we could just round up parents we don't think will be good parents and spay/neuter them, this situation may have never come about. But we can't do that to "people." People like the mother are stuck in their own scary world and are even more scared of leaving that said world.

 

[Linda7NJ]

As long as I've been posting on this website, I have been as polite as I could possibly be. If I disagreed with something someone has said, I would either bite my lip and go on or plainly state why I disagree.

I was just admonished for feeding stray animals when I was trying to make a point about the case. That was pure, unadulterated and expletive-enhanced rudeness. If I didn't take what little care I can of a cat that's scared of me, they'd wind up shot, starve to death or get run over. I still don't know what I've done wrong.

If we could just round up parents we don't think will be good parents and spay/neuter them, this situation may have never come about. But we can't do that to "people." People like the mother are stuck in their own scary world and are even more scared of leaving that said world.

I can not apologize for disagreeing with your analogy and saying so.

I so wish we could round up unfit parents and neuter them...even better if some sort of test was required before reproducing....but I digress.




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[Lovejac]

This case is so disturbing and sad. I haven't posted in a long time, but this one brought me out of "hiding" so to speak. I knew if anyone were trying to wrap their heads around something like this - it would be you, my fellow WS'ers.


My heart broke for all these children, especially for the two youngest. When I was doing child/family mental health advocacy, reactive attachment disorder was coming more and more into focus. The moment I read about the 3 year old presenting with violent rocking, guttural/screeching type sounds, etc. my mind went back to all the studies and books I've read on attachment disorders. One of the more well known stories of abuse and neglect was the story of "Genie" (not her real name). There is an independent film, 'Mockingbird Don't Sing', as well as a Nova program that chronicles her story as well. My hope is that the 6 mo old was saved in time before further damage was done. I have my reservations about the 3 year old. The developmental and cognitive milestones missed are going to be difficult to overcome. I really hope there are periodical updates to all of the children's progress over time.

I read through every post EM had visible when her FB page was still up right after this happened. I (like everyone else) am trying to wrap my head around her pathology and what role the "father" had in this situation. I have to refresh my memory of the ToS and other rules before posting my questions. I don't want to get in trouble for anything. I have some general questions I want to ask regarding posts EM made on her FB relating to her actions, actions of RR, and EM's mother.

For now, here are some curiosities and questions stemming from MSM stories and things others have posted on here:

Several people have mentioned there was no electricity or running water in the house. How did the neighbor boy rinse out a maggot filled bottle? Why was there a porch light on in the published pics? I think I missed the stories that say there was no electric or water.

How could no one smell the stench on these kids, EM, or RR? I know home smells cling to clothing.

The rest of my questions stem from her postings on FB. Sorry if I rambled.

I don't know where the info about no electricity came from, I haven't read it anywhere.

What do you think the prognosis will be for the 3 year old? Can you explain how one might try to treat him? I wonder if he will be placed in foster care or will need to be in a hospital.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated!

 

[passionflower]

ANYONE that ever saw this home inside, and the 2 babysat children should of called for help!
Thank goodness the brother and neighbor got help!
That means the so called man people say is the father.
Was he to lazy to go to the 2nd floor?
Was that the only place the 2 younger children lived?
He never heard a cry?
Monsters is what I want to call them.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't know where the info about no electricity came from, I haven't read it anywhere.

What do you think the prognosis will be for the 3 year old? Can you explain how one might try to treat him? I wonder if he will be placed in foster care or will need to be in a hospital.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated!

I can only give you my opinion. He should be placed in a pre-adoptive home with a stay at home therapeutically trained parent. One with no other children. This child needs to learn how to attach. He should be treated as if he's a new born infant. He should be swaddled, rocked to sleep and bottle fed.....All IMO His needs should be consistently met every single time he cries. he needs to learn a caregiver is dependable and trustworthy.



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[wenwe4]

I don't know where the info about no electricity came from, I haven't read it anywhere.

What do you think the prognosis will be for the 3 year old? Can you explain how one might try to treat him? I wonder if he will be placed in foster care or will need to be in a hospital.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated!

I am pretty sure the comments about no electricity and no running water came from video clips from wbz who interviewed the woman who found the children.

 

[wenwe4]

LEO's have released copies of all of the calls to the home. Apparently, most of the calls were prior to 2011 when EM moved into the home.

See more @ link:

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...014/09/blackstone_chief_dead_baby_case_beyond