MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

[curiouser_]

Thanks very much mikkismom!

 

[Olivia522]

Has anyone seen this?
Erika Murray Arraignment

Wow. Just watched arraignment.
Almost lost it at the part about maggots in the kids' ears.

I agree w others..she does not seem all there. Wonder if that's medication side effects or just how she is.
I've watched my share of hoarders shows, but none of them had this many small children crawling around.

What could have prevented this?
Why was she not getting CPS home visits?!

 

[Olivia522]

Lawyer Wants Charges Dismissed Against Mom With Dead Babies

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lawyer-charges-dismissed-mom-dead-babies-32385917

That link is dead now but I think this is the same article
http://m.wcvb.com/news/lawyer-to-seek-dismissal-of-murder-charges-against-mother/34112778

Is there a separate thread for the Rivera dude? I saw an article about his case slowing going through more court motions /competency hearings.

I wonder if they'll drop murder charges for Erika. Her attorney raised doubts about proving it since ME couldn't determine cause of death. Not sure if that's been established yet.

The wheels of justice turn too slowly, IMHO.
Maybe it's better to drop murder charge & just hammer them w all the lower neglect & abuse charges. Those penalties add up.
Though she needs serious mental help. Not sure prison will do her any good.

 

[iamnotagolem]

That link is dead now but I think this is the same article
http://m.wcvb.com/news/lawyer-to-seek-dismissal-of-murder-charges-against-mother/34112778

Is there a separate thread for the Rivera dude? I saw an article about his case slowing going through more court motions /competency hearings.

I wonder if they'll drop murder charges for Erika. Her attorney raised doubts about proving it since ME couldn't determine cause of death. Not sure if that's been established yet.

The wheels of justice turn too slowly, IMHO.
Maybe it's better to drop murder charge & just hammer them w all the lower neglect & abuse charges. Those penalties add up.
Though she needs serious mental help. Not sure prison will do her any good.

BBM, that makes me about crazy. First off, I'm certain those babies died from neglect. Second, even if they did die from SIDS or were born deceased, who has a dead baby and thinks "now where do I keep these things again? oh right, this closet here"????? Sorry that is not okay, not normal. She clearly has serious issues. She was well enough to hide them from her husband as well as her pregnancies yet still have sex on a regular basis w/him.

 

[seattlechiquita]

BBM, that makes me about crazy. First off, I'm certain those babies died from neglect. Second, even if they did die from SIDS or were born deceased, who has a dead baby and thinks "now where do I keep these things again? oh right, this closet here"????? Sorry that is not okay, not normal. She clearly has serious issues. She was well enough to hide them from her husband as well as her pregnancies yet still have sex on a regular basis w/him.

If she is mentally ill, all the above loses relevance. A mentally ill person's "normal" is not what you or I think normal is.

I'm with Olivia --- they should hammer them with the child neglect/abuse charges. I wonder if she has been properly evaluated by psychiatrists for the state?

 

[wenwe4]

If she is mentally ill, all the above loses relevance. A mentally ill person's "normal" is not what you or I think normal is.

I'm with Olivia --- they should hammer them with the child neglect/abuse charges. I wonder if she has been properly evaluated by psychiatrists for the state?

IIRC She was housed in the psychiatric unit at a prison right after she was arrested, and I think her Atty requested a psych eval right away. I'm not sure what would cause so many delays for RR. He was jobless, homeless, and hopeless last I saw an interview with him.

If he were to be found to be guilty of neglect (for not intervening on behalf of the babies, I wonder if he could regain custody of his older kids.

 

[curiouser_]

Apologize if this was posted earlier. It's fairly recent. Looks like she goes back to court on 10/20.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20150910/NEWS/150919655

 

[wenwe4]

I found this article - says Atty Halpern will file documents on 10/23

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/a...?Start=1&_suid=144657746197805130633637826057

 

[Renee110]

This is just the craziest case. How can so many babies be born and there not be a record or anything? How can someone be pregnant with this many kids and no one... neighbors, friends, family, grocery store clerks not know? I can't sneeze without someone saying bless you. I could surely never give birth to this many without the town knowing. She must be the invisible woman. This is like a bad movie where you watch and say this would never happen in real life....

 

[lawstudent]

This is just the craziest case. How can so many babies be born and there not be a record or anything? How can someone be pregnant with this many kids and no one... neighbors, friends, family, grocery store clerks not know? I can't sneeze without someone saying bless you. I could surely never give birth to this many without the town knowing. She must be the invisible woman. This is like a bad movie where you watch and say this would never happen in real life....

People who do things like this obviously have issues. Those issues also lead to isolation and dysfunctional relationships (or stem from them - chicken/egg problem). It seems in many cases there isn't a lot of family, and if there is, the family doesn't ask questions. It's a bizarre environment that is probably multigenerational and widespread - everyone is so used to the complacency and issues that there is no reaction. People with involved families or high social involvement can't do these things even if they were capable - it gets stopped before it his this point. These stories disturb me for the obvious reasons, but also because it is clear to me that there must be so much unnoticed suffering by so many others in the family if the dysfunction is that pervasive that not one person gets a clue and speaks up. And if you don't go to the hospital, there are no records. Another indicator that this woman is pathologically nonreactive - she can quietly give birth that many times at home - repeatedly going through it without asking for help. Truly disturbing.

 

[mamaleena]

Has there been any welfare updates on the living children, especially the two little ones?


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[curiouser_]

Here's an update.
WJAR 10 - Providence

 

[Rayemonde]

Here's an update.
WJAR 10 - Providence

From link:

Murray also faces two charges of child endangerment related to the four children living in the home at the time.

The prosecution alleges they could have been held by Murray with the intent to sell them, but the defense said that can't be.

"The commonwealth has not produced a single document, not a single police report -- zero -- of any investigation of kidnapping or human trafficking. Ever," Halpern said.

Selling children?! what? has the prosecution really alleged that, I wonder... It makes no sense.

 

[tlcya]

I can think of a lot of crimes to charge this woman with. Trafficking isn't one of them. Why this charge? Do prosecutors not feel they have a strong enough case on the others?

 

[seattlechiquita]

What in the world?

 

[mamaleena]

This is bizarre? I haven't been back to this thread in a while. So strange they would charge her with that when there are so many other things....


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[Rayemonde]

It doesn't say they've charged her with it, does it? Only that they suggested it as a possible motive for keeping the children alive.

 

[tlcya]

good point Rayemonde, but that as a motive doesn't add up, because, and I HATE to have to do it, I agree with the defense on this, something (or someones) that had value in her mind, even for trafficking purposes, would not have been treated as her babies were.

That motive would certainly account for her keeping the babies existence a secret but not for the absolute neglect until death.

 

[wenwe4]

Honestly I don't think Halpern did her any favors with this statement.

"If she was a child trafficker, why would you cause horrific injury to the product you were trying to sell?" Halpern said.

So he is conceding she caused "horrific injury" to the children? Sure sounds like it to me.

 

[wendybtn]

It doesn't say they've charged her with it, does it? Only that they suggested it as a possible motive for keeping the children alive.

And that was from her defense attorney, according to the link above. Supposedly on 2/25, the defense is going to move to have two murder dropped.