MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Tempura]

Again I think your missing my point. I didn't say her reasons for coming home were nefarious, or perhaps even unusual for someone with a recently diagnosed medical condition.

However most 27 year olds do not have crohns. And most 27 year olds living in NYC don't come home every 2 wks. So was it unusual for someone with a condition to perhaps come home more frequently, perhaps not. But she would have been in a minority category doing so, as the majority of her peers are likely not suffering from chronic conditions. Therefor she would still be in the minority for 20 something in the city leaving for home with that frequency.

Again not that she was doing anything wrong persue, but that her frequency of returns to home is not typical behavior of others in her age group living in NYC. Again maybe typical of others in her age group with chronic illness, but still in the minority overall. So regardless of her reason for doing so having the most practicality and validity in the world, it's still a-typical behavior overall.

I guess I am missing your point in mentioning that, because we aren't talking about "most 27 year olds", we're talking specifically about her and her circumstances. I'm failing to see how it's even worth mentioning that it's atypical behavior for someone in her age group/career/location, but that it's typical for someone with chronic illness. It either makes sense for her or it doesn't, and IMO her visits can be reasonably explained.

 

[Tempura]

One thing that struck me just now reading the above link....is if VM chrons was still really bad, those 3.5-4hr bus rides, up and back totally 6-8 hours on a horrible smelly bus, must have been unbearable! I can't believe she would subject herself to 8 hrs on a bus with a tiny bathroom and all those people around you, every other weekend. That just sounds brutal.

It could have been in remission, but one thing that's important in avoiding flare ups is keeping stress levels down. All the more reason to escape the city and relax at home.

 

[ThinkHard]

I couldn't understand why you guys were making such a big deal about the decedent driving home every two weeks. Alot of families have Sunday dinner together, regardless of age. However, I took the time to look at the map and determine distance and driving time. It is 193 miles from NYC to Princeton, with est. drive time of 3.5 hours, without heavy traffic. With heavy traffic, who knows. So now I get your point.
It does make me wonder if something in particular was bringing her home that frequently given the distance. For all we know her mother has been ill. We don't know, but now I get the point you have all been making.

Yes exactly. It's an absolute minimum of 3 hrs and that's if you drive down at 6am on a Sunday and are going to the upper east or west side. But anywhere else your right is closer to 3.5hrs and that's when you drive, without traffic. But it's honestly taken as much as 6 hours if you drive down on a Friday after work. So it's not exactly a hop skip and a jump.

At most she arrive home late Friday night, be home all Saturday, and apparently departed regularly on the 430pm bus out of Worcester, getting her into NYC at around maybe 8? If she's lucky. So she basically spent 6-8 hrs travel every 2 wks to be home less then 48 hrs.

And it also means your taking a 27 year old out of her new home every other weekend.

Just seems like there is more to it then just visiting family. It could be cause of the crohns or it could be other reasons as well.

But it does seem like a typical behavior. And I just know when I walked in similar shoes to her, my reasons for that frequency was a guy. That doesn't mean that her reason, but in my personal experience and in observing my peers, all of whine have very good relationships with their parents, traveling that distance, for that short a period of time, at that frequency.....makes me think she was avoiding something in NYC, or seeking something in MA.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It could have been in remission, but one thing that's important in avoiding flare ups is keeping stress levels down. All the more reason to escape the city and relax at home.

That doesn't make sense to me, and I have to agree with ThinkHard that something else is behind these lengthy trips from NYC to Princeton. I dismissed this notion at first, as I was one of those who always went home for Sunday dinners, just part of my family culture. However, the fact she lived so far away, had a disease that would make traveling difficult doesn't add up. This type of a journey doesn't sound stress reducing at all, with the exception that maybe her Mom's house was her haven. Still doesn't add up for me, and although I first missed it, I think this traveling back and forth is an important point to consider.

 

[ThinkHard]

I guess I am missing your point in mentioning that, because we aren't talking about "most 27 year olds", we're talking specifically about her and her circumstances. I'm failing to see how it's even worth mentioning that it's atypical behavior for someone in her age group/career/location, but that it's typical for someone with chronic illness. It either makes sense for her or it doesn't, and IMO her visits can be reasonably explained.

We don't know that her condition is the reason she came home. It could be, but we do not know that.

Stating its atypical for someone in her age group to come home that frequently is pointing out just that. And thus speculating on what that reason could be, and if it could at all be related to her murder makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Saying that IF her reasons was the chrohn than perhaps that would be more typical behavior of someone with her condition, would certainly be one explanation but since we are guessing at it, and we do not know....it also doesn't eliminate the possibility of their being other influencers in her choices as well. And other things she was either avoiding or seeking.

 

[Tempura]

That doesn't make sense to me, and I have to agree with ThinkHard that something else is behind these lengthy trips from NYC to Princeton. I dismissed this notion at first, as I was one of those who always went home for Sunday dinners, just part of my family culture. However, the fact she lived so far away, had a disease that would make traveling difficult doesn't add up. This type of a journey doesn't sound stress reducing at all, with the exception that maybe her Mom's house was her haven. Still doesn't add up for me, and although I first missed it, I think this traveling back and forth is an important point to consider.

Another thing to consider is that depression is often tied to Crohn's.

 

[ThinkHard]

It could have been in remission, but one thing that's important in avoiding flare ups is keeping stress levels down. All the more reason to escape the city and relax at home.

The city can be pretty relaxing. And I would think traveling with that frequency, packing, unpacking, lugging bags to and from the bus to her apartment, catching the bus, having to ride it down and back and be stuck in it with a limited bathroom....I think that would all be pretty stress inducing to deal with too. Which in my opinion might make going back and forth more stressful instead of less.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes exactly. It's an absolute minimum of 3 hrs and that's if you drive down at 6am on a Sunday and are going to the upper east or west side. But anywhere else your right is closer to 3.5hrs and that's when you drive, without traffic. But it's honestly taken as much as 6 hours if you drive down on a Friday after work. So it's not exactly a hop skip and a jump.

At most she arrive home late Friday night, be home all Saturday, and apparently departed regularly on the 430pm bus out of Worcester, getting her into NYC at around maybe 8? If she's lucky. So she basically spent 6-8 hrs travel every 2 wks to be home less then 48 hrs.

And it also means your taking a 27 year old out of her new home every other weekend.

Just seems like there is more to it then just visiting family. It could be cause of the crohns or it could be other reasons as well.

But it does seem like a typical behavior. And I just know when I walked in similar shoes to her, my reasons for that frequency was a guy. That doesn't mean that her reason, but in my personal experience and in observing my peers, all of whine have very good relationships with their parents, traveling that distance, for that short a period of time, at that frequency.....makes me think she was avoiding something in NYC, or seeking something in MA.

Given what I just discovered about the length of the trip to her Mom's house, I have to agree with you 100%. Either she was getting away from someone, or going *to* someone. Given the length of the trip and general (emphasis on general) human behavior, I would say she was getting *away* from a painful situation vs. going to her haven. This is just a guess, an opinion, but it certainly makes sense to me given the little we know. I think this merits digging in to that NYC life more.

I was really (and still haven't abandoned) the idea this was a local neighbor lurker/watcher. But I do think we need to find out what was going awry in NYC, and why (if they did) someone would follow her 3.5 hours away to attack and kill her. Quite a puzzle.

 

[Tempura]

Given what I just discovered about the length of the trip to her Mom's house, I have to agree with you 100%. Either she was getting away from someone, or going *to* someone. Given the length of the trip and general (emphasis on general) human behavior, I would say she was getting *away* from a painful situation vs. going to her haven. This is just a guess, an opinion, but it certainly makes sense to me given the little we know. I think this merits digging in to that NYC life more.

I was really (and still haven't abandoned) the idea this was a local neighbor lurker/watcher. But I do think we need to find out what was going awry in NYC, and why (if they did) someone would follow her 3.5 hours away to attack and kill her. Quite a puzzle.

I agree that she going to someone, but I believe it was her family. Judging by her social media accounts while they were still active, I noticed the majority of her photos contained family (cousins, mother, aunt), and were taken during holidays with family, etc. We do know she had a close relationship with her family, but so far we have no proof of a romantic relationship, or frankly, any current involvement with men.

 

[Tempura]

We also know she had a real love for running and it's such a different experience running on country roads as opposed to the city. If she was training for a run in Massachusetts, I could see her wanting to run on more similar terrain, and doing it while visiting family would be convenient for her.

 

[ThinkHard]

Given what I just discovered about the length of the trip to her Mom's house, I have to agree with you 100%. Either she was getting away from someone, or going *to* someone. Given the length of the trip and general (emphasis on general) human behavior, I would say she was getting *away* from a painful situation vs. going to her haven. This is just a guess, an opinion, but it certainly makes sense to me given the little we know. I think this merits digging in to that NYC life more.

I was really (and still haven't abandoned) the idea this was a local neighbor lurker/watcher. But I do think we need to find out what was going awry in NYC, and why (if they did) someone would follow her 3.5 hours away to attack and kill her. Quite a puzzle.

Hey, you just made me think of a possibility....

What if she was having problems in NYC for whatever reason, issues with roommates, issues with a boy, (even possible that depression related to chronic illness could be a factor)...and for whatever reason despite being at her dream job she still feels isolated or alone in the city.

So perhaps she keeps to herself a bit more ... And in doing so reconnects with someone back home via SM who maybe she can commiserate with, and through this they become close....and when she goes home they hang out....and it leads to more, which leads to more frequent visits.

Just a thought....

 

[ThinkHard]

We also know she had a real love for running and it's such a different experience running on country roads as opposed to the city. If she was training for a run in Massachusetts, I could see her wanting to run on more similar terrain, and doing it while visiting family would be convenient for her.

What run was she training for?

We know she ran the Falmouth road race in years past. But Falmouth is flat....Princeton hilly. NYC flat, much more like it would be flat in Falmouth. So I don't see why she would go to Princeton to train for Falmouth.

 

[Tempura]

What run was she training for?

We know she ran the Falmouth road race in years past. But Falmouth is flat....Princeton hilly. NYC flat, much more like it would be flat in Falmouth. So I don't see why she would go to Princeton to train for Falmouth.

Half of the Falmouth race is actually hilly.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree that she going to someone, but I believe it was her family. Judging by her social media accounts while they were still active, I noticed the majority of her photos contained family (cousins, mother, aunt), and were taken during holidays with family, etc. We do know she had a close relationship with her family, but so far we have no proof of a romantic relationship, or frankly, any current involvement with men.

Her fb account has always been set to private. Her Instagram was a mix of friends and family, mostly friends.

Her dad said she had no involvement romantically. But when Early was asked if this was true he fumbled and then said he wasn't going to get into her personal life. Which makes me think the answer isn't a straight forward yes or no, but that whatever potentional communication with others she might have had romantically was more complicated.

Girls don't usually tell their parents about boys they are hooking up with until after the relationship becomes official for the simple fact is they don't want to play 20 questions with their parents when they are still trying to figure out how serious the relationship is.

For the first 4 months of one relationship I told my parents I was sleeping at my best friends house every time I was actually with him. When I was ready to introduce him to my parents was the first time they had even heard of him.

If a fling doesn't work out, it can still sting, so you tend to not make a big deal about it until you know it's gonna last or they really are "that into you" because no one likes being dumped and no one likes having to share that news with everyone. Least of all your parents, because you feel like a disappointment (especially as an only child).

So I don't think we can just throw out the idea that there couldn't possibly be a guy in her life, just because her father was unaware of one, or because LE hasn't said one way or the other.

 

[Tempura]

Her fb account has always been set to private. Her Instagram was a mix of friends and family, mostly friends.

Her dad said she had no involvement romantically. But when Early was asked if this was true he fumbled and then said he wasn't going to get into her personal life. Which makes me think the answer isn't a straight forward yes or no, but that whatever potentional communication with others she might have had romantically was more complicated.

Girls don't usually tell their parents about boys they are hooking up with until after the relationship becomes official for the simple fact is they don't want to play 20 questions with their parents when they are still trying to figure out how serious the relationship is.

For the first 4 months of one relationship I told my parents I was sleeping at my best friends house every time I was actually with him. When I was ready to introduce him to my parents was the first time they had even heard of him.

If a fling doesn't work out, it can still sting, so you tend to not make a big deal about it until you know it's gonna last or they really are "that into you" because no one likes being dumped and no one likes having to share that news with everyone. Least of all your parents, because you feel like a disappointment (especially as an only child).

So I don't think we can just throw out the idea that there couldn't possibly be a guy in her life, just because her father was unaware of one, or because LE hasn't said one way or the other.

I agree with you that typically not all details are shared, but again I just find it unlikely that she'd make all of these frequent trips with that motivation, and not share any bit of info about a man with her parents. I don't find it typical for a woman her age to pretend to go on jogs to secretly meet with a man. I'd think at some point she'd be staying with the man instead if her intentions for coming home were being with him. Obviously just my opinion. We also don't know that she was even interested in men romantically.

 

[Danyel]

I guess I am missing your point in mentioning that, because we aren't talking about "most 27 year olds", we're talking specifically about her and her circumstances. I'm failing to see how it's even worth mentioning that it's atypical behavior for someone in her age group/career/location, but that it's typical for someone with chronic illness. It either makes sense for her or it doesn't, and IMO her visits can be reasonably explained.

Agreed. And FWIW I'm a 30 year old female (grew up miles from the crime scene as well) and I currently live 30 miles outside of NYC. I travel to central MA bi weekly solely because I miss my family.

 

[Tempura]

Agreed. And FWIW I'm a 30 year old female (grew up miles from the crime scene as well) and I currently live 30 miles outside of NYC. I travel to central MA bi weekly solely because I miss my family.

Thanks for your perspective. I don't think it any more unusual that a 27yo would want to visit family than if she wanted to visit a man.

 

[eucalyptuz]

We just don't know.
We could generate a few pages discussing what WE think are the reasons for frequent visits home and unless we have more information all we are entitled to are our opinions and comparisons to our own experiences - and that does not necessarily entitle us to the dismissal of other's opinions and experiences

We are all very different. Personally, I don't think there is a "typical" experience of 'young small town women takes on NYC' and the stereotype portrayed in movies and books can be crushingly different from what many girls experience. That city can be a 'make or break' moment in a person's life and I would be hard-pressed to try and describe a "typical" experience from stories of all people I know who have done their stint in the big apple.

 

[Tempura]

We just don't know.
We could generate a few pages discussing what WE think are the reasons for frequent visits home and unless we have more information all we are entitled to are our opinions and comparisons to our own experiences - and that does not necessarily entitle us to the dismissal of other's opinions and experiences

We are all very different. Personally, I don't think there is a "typical" experience of 'young small town women takes on NYC' and the stereotype portrayed in movies and books can be crushingly different from what many girls experience. That city can be a 'make or break' moment in a person's life and I would be hard-pressed to try and describe a "typical" experience from stories of all people I know who have done their stint in the big apple.

Totally agree!

 

[ThinkHard]

Thanks for your perspective. I don't think it any more unusual that a 27yo would want to visit family than if she wanted to visit a man.

I do. We certainly don't have to agree with each other. But I do think it's weird, and atypical. I don't think you'll find MOST highly motivated young people who are trying to pave there own way fleeing 3 hours home biweekly. That speaks to someone who is still clingy and needy and uncomfortable in their new life, or who had something else going on and thus another reason to be back home.

But whether you are 27 and in NYC or 30 and in westchester traveling home that frequently isn't what most people do.

And I do think it's worth exploring, instead of just dismissing, because I do think it could be a piece of this puzzle.

It's frustrating how in cases like this people paint the victim to somehow being immune to being human. It's like all you want to see is that she was a good student, with a good family, a good job, and she loved to run....so therefor she must have no other layers to who she was. People are just more complicated then that. They have more layers, they don't show all their cards at one time or to all the people in their lives. I know plenty of VM's types and I also know how differently their parents impression of them is from some aspects of their life.

For example I know plenty of Ivy Leaguers who's parents would swear up and down they would never touch drugs, yet these same people sold drugs in college and are the biggest stoners I know. Yet there parents know nothing about this aspect of their life. In my experience access, money, and education knows how to bread people who play the right cards, at the right time, for the right people.

Just to be clear I'm not saying VM had this torrid secret life, I am not trying to vilify her, nor am I trying to take away from any of her wonderful qualities. I'm just trying to point out that people aren't always as simple as what meets the eye. They just aren't.