MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Inthedetails]

Thanks for posting that article. I love when I come across anything that I find thought-provoking -- yeah, that makes me "think hard" -- and well expressed. I found it very insightful -- and spot-on. The entire "women are expected to manage men's emotions" is so true -- in general, of course, there are always exceptions. It's just another unpaid job that frees men up to work more -- and hence, earn more money -- and/or have more free time. What I try to steer clear of is the all-too common dynamic of when those women who take on handling the emotions of men in their lives then dump it (or attempt to) on other women. I'm not talking just about their close friends or family either.

More to say about that article, but moving on to Vanessa... (Though, of course, societal attitudes/dynamics and Vanessa being brutally murdered are intimately connected, but this isn't the forum...)

Certainly, what little information we know suggests a rage that I don't even like to contemplate. While I could be wrong, I tend to think that his rage is more toward women in general and less directed at Vanessa. I don't tend to think she was seeing a married man, for instance, as it's hard to imagine that there would not be some type of trail. I also don't think he's a single man that she was currently romantically involved with. I'd not rule out past romantic involvement, but I don't think that's likely either. Someone interested in her, but not having his feeling reciprocated is a good possibility, IMO, but so is someone that didn't know her or just knew "of her."

There are exception to everything, but in general, I think men who have this degree of rage against women lack or lacked in the past one or two things: 1. financial/career success; 2. romantic success with women. As for the exceptions (and many of these men), then I'd venture that their childhood backgrounds are telltale.

So, yes, ThinkHard, I do think that inner rage at his lack of contentment with his life was likely a big factor here. And, yes, this very well could be someone who was left behind -- never moved out of the area to go to college, for instance. But, again, I don't tend to think there was a strong connection between him and Vanessa. Just a feeling.

I share many of these thoughts - especially that the rage in the crime was against women in general, or a certain type of woman, but not against Vanessa specifically. Another woman of the "same type" could just as easily been the victim if she had been in the wrong place at the wrong time and encountered this murderer.

That's just my hunch with all this.

Wish we had more info.

jmopinion at the moment.

 

[The Farm]

You wouldn't have a woods walker in those woods though, as it's all private property. So if they were there it's likely they lived there. And I'd think it would be too early at just a half mile for her to have taken a break.

I know I thought of that but when your out to kill someone if that was his intention who cares if it is private?? I see people all the time walking on private property even if it is posted.
As far as meeting someone ANYTHING is a possibility. But I keep on thinking that is not the town she grew up in so how many people could she really know there? She visited her Mom on Sundays.

 

[Rocky1]

To be honest, I can see both scenarios. I would say that Princeton is an extremely close knit community and most everyone knows everyone. So if it is a local, then others definitely know and are protecting him and I don't see a local taking that risk. Just my two cents though. I would say again though that if it is a local, picking that road in particular to do something so horrible is one of the last roads you would ever pick if you wanted to get away with it. That cart path is not far off the road and any passing cyclist or other runner would have noticed anything odd going on in the woods.

My thoughts exactly.
As I have said before, I have traveled that road at least 6 times since this crime, and there has always been a car either in front of me, or in my mirror.
I counted 8 cars on that road from my google maps, the day it was photographed.
That is what makes me lean more towards someone that targeted her, and knew her route was limited to the block she ran around.

 

[Kickoff61]

It seems someone from out of town traveling in an SUV (if not visiting frequently or that day to a location there), would have taken her somewhere else.

 

[Rocky1]

That we do not know what kind of particular tracking was done and people walk everywhere all the time. I have walked my dogs out in the woods where I would not thinkk I would see a soul and there I come upon traces of people such as fresh trash etc. I even came upon a large plastic bag one time with a terrible smell and was ready to run home and call 911 (no cell phones in those days) when what do I see but a dogs leg sticking out. I swear I still have not got over it and that was years ago.
So we can only surmise with what LE has released which I am sure is not everything.

True, LE hasn't released much at all.
Tracking dogs will only track a fresh scent they pick up on when someone steps on grass or leaves etc. The scent gets stronger the less time that has passed, and that's how the dog knows which direction the perp is traveling.
I am not saying that LE did track, but trying to figure out how he may have escaped on foot, if they tracked him through the woods to, say Rt. 31, or Conners Lane, maybe LE would have asked people that saw a man walking down those roads to call the tip line?

 

[Rocky1]

To me, if it was someone that knew her, and was raged for some reason, like an old b/f etc, I would think that he would have made contact with her some way before this, and LE would have some sort of a trail. Phone hang ups, slashed tires, maybe showing up at her home/work in the past in Boston/NYC, etc.
I still think that it was someone that knew of her, and for not that long.
Far fetched, but I wonder if she was home for the 4th of July, and what she did that weekend.

 

[The Farm]

It seems someone from out of town traveling in an SUV (if not visiting frequently or that day to a location there), would have taken her somewhere else.

I agree but it would take time to get a fighting woman into a vehicle without being come upon especially as Rocky1 just said as it being somewhat steadily travelled. And that particular day it might not have been.
Now if there were two perps it would not be that hard to grab her and whip her into the vehicle. But they didn't, the deed was done right there I would imagine.

 

[Kickoff61]

It is really hard to say with so little known. But if someone used an SUV in this, it still seems like it could be for part of it. Either going back with SUV quickly to do something or this happening somewhere else on her route and leaving her there with SUV.

Maybe these things seem unlikely, but it is also unlikely someone would park there on the side of the road through the entire time of doing all this. And again, if just driving through the area, still the same, stopping and parking like that and not taking her in the vehicle.

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree but it would take time to get a fighting woman into a vehicle without being come upon especially as Rocky1 just said as it being somewhat steadily travelled. And that particular day it might not have been.
Now if there were two perps it would not be that hard to grab her and whip her into the vehicle. But they didn't, the deed was done right there I would imagine.

That's true.

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree but it would take time to get a fighting woman into a vehicle without being come upon especially as Rocky1 just said as it being somewhat steadily travelled. And that particular day it might not have been.
Now if there were two perps it would not be that hard to grab her and whip her into the vehicle. But they didn't, the deed was done right there I would imagine.

However, the same struggle would take place, taking her off the road to another location. (can be seen just as a struggle would be into vehicle)

 

[Rocky1]

Are you talking about the building closer toward the center of town? That is Wachusett House and primarily home to many elderly. It is HUD but really just a lot of elderly. http://affordablehousingonline.com/...s/Princeton/Wachusett-House-Corporation/4416/
Although it Interesting fact is that it was build on the property of a really old cool hotel that burned down in 1910, here's one of many photos from the fire https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:fb494j99f
I used to be friends with a kid whose property abutted where this is and in the woods there is still a ton of remnants of the fire. We used to collect large fragments of the dining china. Anyway, sorry to digress!

Thank you for the photos.That was a good size hotel.
I like the one on the summit too.

 

[Inthedetails]

It seems someone from out of town traveling in an SUV (if not visiting frequently or that day to a location there), would have taken her somewhere else.

Good point.

Maybe he got her into the vehicle, went somewhere nearby, did his crimes, and then "returned" her near to the place he found her?

It's a bit of a tight timeline to do that, but leaving the immediate area in the car could make some sense. You would think he would leave her wherever he took her though, and not bother returning.

Hmmmm.....I lean toward a non-local but someone who had been in the area (perhaps frequently) and I lean toward a local. If I lean both ways, at least I'm standing up straight, lol.

jmopinion, subject to change.

 

[Kickoff61]

Good point.

Maybe he got her into the vehicle, went somewhere nearby, did his crimes, and then "returned" her near to the place he found her?

It's a bit of a tight timeline to do that, but leaving the immediate area in the car could make some sense. You would think he would leave her wherever he took her though, and not bother returning.

Hmmmm.....I lean toward a non-local but someone who had been in the area (perhaps frequently) and I lean toward a local. If I lean both ways, at least I'm standing up straight, lol.

jmopinion, subject to change.

That is good to be standing up straight ...lol.

 

[Kickoff61]

If it was someone on her running route, I wonder if the person was familiar enough to her, for them to have a conversation if she passed the person at a location or if they were on the same road together?

 

[The Farm]

If it was someone on her running route, I wonder if the person was familiar enough to her, for them to have a conversation if she passed the person at a location or if they were on the same road together?

Thinking on this. I consider my town to be somewhat of a safe haven. Many times someone would stop for directions (because of the no street signs lol) and it never entered my mind to run away. Maybe if it was a van I could not see into or someone shady looking my guard would go up but otherwise not really.
Of course this is going back quite a few years when I did go on walks. There were a few dirt roads which have now all been paved because of progress and unfortunately more traffic because of the building.
But when you are in your little safe haven your really not thinking that, especially an area with no crime except a few house breaks let alone a homicide.
So I am on the fence on if she knew the perp or not.

 

[Rocky1]

I agree but it would take time to get a fighting woman into a vehicle without being come upon especially as Rocky1 just said as it being somewhat steadily travelled. And that particular day it might not have been.
Now if there were two perps it would not be that hard to grab her and whip her into the vehicle. But they didn't, the deed was done right there I would imagine.

Two perps is the only way I can fit the SUV into this.
There was a witness that said they saw VM walking, then saw a car turn around and when they returned VM was gone. They never mentioned a car parked along the side of BSR.
If that is true, (and I only read that here) one gets dropped off, he hid in the woods, the SUV left and came back to pick him up, and maybe then the SUV was spotted parked, waiting.Then the driver/owner doesn't have scratches on his face. I am having a hard time believing that an SUV was parked there the entire time.
I would think that if the perps used cell phones to talk to each other LE would be able to track that.
I could be way off.

 

[Kickoff61]

Two perps is the only way I can fit the SUV into this.
There was a witness that said they saw VM walking, then saw a car turn around and when they returned VM was gone. They never mentioned a car parked along the side of BSR.
If that is true, (and I only read that here) one gets dropped off, he hid in the woods, the SUV left and came back to pick him up, and maybe then the SUV was spotted parked, waiting.Then the driver/owner doesn't have scratches on his face. I am having a hard time believing that an SUV was parked there the entire time.
I would think that if the perps used cell phones to talk to each other LE would be able to track that.
I could be way off.

I agree. It is difficult to imagine the SUV being parked at a location throughout this happening. I do see what you mean, about the possibility of two perps. It also cannot be dismissed that the vehicle may have been used in part of this. We have a two hour time frame. It depends if the person lived nearby. Someone who could be on foot and then use the vehicle briefly for some reason.

 

[Kickoff61]

It is hard to imagine this being someone from out of town, knowing her routine or coming upon her suddenly, using that path without knowing much about it , in regards to who may live nearby or be walking it, etc. If it is someone from out of town, it would seem more likely to be someone who knows a person in that area and visits often.

One fact to go on are the reports earlier on. I believe the authorities said the person is familiar with the area she is found. It seems higher probability to be someone in close proximity, yet not easily detected, no record on file and as another poster said, someone least suspect for this. Actually, if the person doesn't have a record but possible history of crime this is a person who may not have been suspected before either, therefore not caught earlier on. That would also explain their confidence in doing something so brazen as well.

 

[Kickoff61]

To be honest, I can see both scenarios. I would say that Princeton is an extremely close knit community and most everyone knows everyone. So if it is a local, then others definitely know and are protecting him and I don't see a local taking that risk. Just my two cents though. I would say again though that if it is a local, picking that road in particular to do something so horrible is one of the last roads you would ever pick if you wanted to get away with it. That cart path is not far off the road and any passing cyclist or other runner would have noticed anything odd going on in the woods.

Do you think it happened somewhere else on her running route and she was brought there to the path?

 

[Massman33]

I believe this person is reading every post & taking notes so he knows how people are thinking. And he is on his best behavior & won't risk getting caught by raising any red flags among friends/family.