Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 11

[colomom]

Front page of tomorrow's Mirror:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,70141-1281001-9,00.html

Quick everyone, check jacobean's list....

 

[colomom]

I had thought of this as well. We don't know for sure why she was screaming. As you stated there could be many reasons for this. 1. Was she screaming at he daddy. 2.Screaming for her daddy because she was afraid of being left alone. 3.Was she screaming for him because someone else was in the room? I find #2 to be most likely becase she screamed for so long. I think if it were 1 or 3 a hand would have been placed over her mouth to keep her quiet.

More with regards to your questions:

From: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...ght-she-disappeared-WE-VE-LET-MADELEINE-DOWN-

"Expatriate Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives in the flat above where the McCanns were staying, was re-interviewed by detectives on Monday after it emerged that she might have fresh clues.


Widow Mrs Fenn told police that two nights before Madeleine went missing she heard a little girl in the apartment crying for over an hour.


She said the toddler, who is believed to have been Madeleine, was crying “Daddy, daddy” constantly between 10.30 and 11.45pm.


The crying had stopped when the parents returned to the apartment.


On the night Madeleine disappeared, Mrs Fenn also heard a child crying, but it was when Kate returned from a nearby restaurant to check on her daughter that she was first aware something was wrong.


A source close to Mrs Fenn said: “She often sits on the balcony at night and heard a commotion downstairs.
“She heard the woman who she now knows to be Kate crying ‘We have let her down, we have let her down’.”


The source added: “She did not understand what was meant by this, but she asked if they wanted her to call the police. She was told it had already been done.”

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.canalsur.es/informa.....a?id=23147

22/08/2007 News noticica CanalSur Enviar

The Police and the Civil Guard do not have any indications that the girl who disappeared in Portugal in May has been in Spanish territory as the parents of Madeleine stated in several mass media.

There are no indications that Madeleine has been in Spain.

Police and Civil Guard at this moment are not maintaining a line of investigation into the possible presence of the British girl, Madeleine McCann, in Spain or the passage through the country at any time subsequent to her kidnapping, say informed sources of the units of both police agencies in charge of the disappearances and kidnappings.

In several interviews published today by Spanish news agencies, the parents of Madeleine insisted on the possibility that their daughter is in Spain and say that the Spanish Forces of Security “are involved” in the investigation. Nevertheless, neither the police investigators nor those of the Civil Guard are maintaining an open line in that sense.

 

[BethInAK]

She said the toddler, who is believed to have been Madeleine, was crying “Daddy, daddy” constantly between 10.30 and 11.45pm.


The crying had stopped when the parents returned to the apartment.


On the night Madeleine disappeared, Mrs Fenn also heard a child crying, but it was when Kate returned from a nearby restaurant to check on her daughter that she was first aware something was wrong.

I have to say that its hard to believe that the McCanns checked on their child every half hour, or less as claimed, when they night before the child was crying for over an hour and fifteen minutes- probably the interval that the kids were left alone was much longer, since by the time parents got back, the crying had stopped. How long were the children left the night before Madeleines disappearance? And how come all of a sudden, the parents checked every half-hour?

 

[CaliKid]

Front page of tomorrow's Mirror:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,70141-1281001-9,00.html

Quick everyone, check jacobean's list....

Okay, the paper where this article: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...ght-she-disappeared-WE-VE-LET-MADELEINE-DOWN- is from, is suspect. As is the above article, which doesn't tell us anything we haven't already heard.

 

[Texana]

I have to say that its hard to believe that the McCanns checked on their child every half hour, or less as claimed, when they night before the child was crying for over an hour and fifteen minutes- probably the interval that the kids were left alone was much longer, since by the time parents got back, the crying had stopped. How long were the children left the night before Madeleines disappearance? And how come all of a sudden, the parents checked every half-hour?

Bingo! (bell rings.) Excellent point!

 

[meowy]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

 

[CaliKid]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1280986,00.html

The campaign to find Madeleine McCann may force a change in EU laws on sex offenders and crimes against children.

MEPs overwhelmingly support creating an EU-wide sex offenders register - and politicians across Europe want crimes involving children to be treated the same way in all member states.

The views were aired as part of a survey commissioned by the campaign to find Madeleine McCann, who was snatched from her parents' holiday flat in Portugal 112 days ago.

If this passes I wonder if it would make it less likely that the McCanns would be prosecuted as harshly for neglect. Portugal has a far stiffer penalty than the UK does.

 

[sherri79]

Gerry's latest blog has info about a survey they commissioned through the fund...

"The survey results, commissioned by the find Madeleine campaign, will be published tomorrow and demonstrate strong support for changes in European legislation following Madeleine’s abduction."

What legislation?

you know the law that says it is ok to leave you kid alone so you can have adult time and any 1 who questions you is guilty of slander.

i just love the fact they used the fund to pay for a survey... sell the posters and pay for a survey... unfreakin believable.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[mjak]

I have to say that its hard to believe that the McCanns checked on their child every half hour, or less as claimed, when they night before the child was crying for over an hour and fifteen minutes- probably the interval that the kids were left alone was much longer, since by the time parents got back, the crying had stopped. How long were the children left the night before Madeleines disappearance? And how come all of a sudden, the parents checked every half-hour?

I agree. As I posted a few posts back I am now questioning whether the whole child care scenerio happened as all. It occured to me tonite it makes no sense. The parents had several good options for child care and instaed choose to leave 3 children ages 3 and under home alone?? They leave the back door open incase of fire. Then they go out with the intentions of eating drinking and playing trivia but have a set up that essentiall involves a non stop rotation of people comming and going form the table. Tonite this whole scenerio just dosen't make sense to me. It is dangerous for the kids not relaxing for the parents and I can't understand how anyone would choose to do it. When you add it the information that Maddie ran away once, cried for an hour for her dad this whole scenerio is now seeming questionable to me.

mjak

 

[sleuthin4fun]

"The crying had stopped when the parents returned to the apartment."

colomon, I had read this and guess I did not pay attention to this particular comment. I guess we could assume by Mrs. Fenns account that GM was not in the room.
Thanks!!!!

 

[mjak]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

I can not imagine the fear a 3 year old would feel to wake up at night in the dark, in a foreign country and find herself all alone. If I was that 3 year old I would cry endlessly.

mjak

 

[sherri79]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

as a mom i can tell you kids can cry forever. i had a baby with colic go on for several hours each night. often the tears stop and you get a dry cry after awhile. dry sobs with no tears will sound the same. a baby will cry its self to sleep or give up. a toddler often will refuse to give up. at her age she would be old enough to be scared and may have cried a very very long time because the fear of being alone did not pass.

ETA: it is not a dumb question. alot of us have kids and we use the insight we have as parents to see if stories add up in this case. often you may see a post that says something like "as a parent i could never blah blah" . if you have not been there the only way to know is to ask.

 

[Texana]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

Yes, they can cry for up to an hour or more. It's not necessarily continuous.

The more they cry, the more worked up some kids get. Think of it as a little hysteria type response. They just get overwhelmed with the emotion and as children, they don't know how to handle it.

When my younger daughter was a little younger than Maddie, we stayed at a beach condo. The owner above us let their giant dog out at six a.m. to howl and whine and drag its water bowl around the balcony. End of sleep for child. After we made our morning beach trip, child had a meltdown--she did nothing but scream No! No! No! continuously. I gave her a bath (sand and all) and put her to bed--still screaming until her head hit the pillow. That was a good 30 minutes--at least.

When she woke up she stretched and said sweetly, "I feel better."

It's not every child that will have meltdowns or crying fits that last that long, but certain temperaments can get overloaded or overwhelmed with emotions and it can happen.

Particularly if Maddie was used to someone such as a nanny coming when she cried or woke up, then she would be more inclined to cry longer and harder when that didn't happen immediately.

 

[CaliKid]

I have to say that its hard to believe that the McCanns checked on their child every half hour, or less as claimed, when they night before the child was crying for over an hour and fifteen minutes- probably the interval that the kids were left alone was much longer, since by the time parents got back, the crying had stopped. How long were the children left the night before Madeleines disappearance? And how come all of a sudden, the parents checked every half-hour?

Let's assume for a moment that the McCanns are guilty of nothing more than having left the children alone at night and someone came into the apartment and took and/or killed Madeleine while they were at the Tapas Bar. Maybe, after her "behavior" had worsened progessively over the course of the holiday, they even gave her a sedative of some sort that night, but it had nothing to do with her diappearance. The sedative didn't kill her, but the McCanns fully realize, although they won't own up to it, that their neglect is why she's missing.

I think the McCanns are making the same mistake a lot of guilty people make: over-compensating. Instead of taking a realistic middle-road and sticking to something that makes sense, such as checking every 30-40 minutes, they got together with friends and worked out a ridiculously frequent schedule. It's so regular that, compared to the total abandonment of the nights before, there is no way any reasonably intelligent person would believe it. Parents popping up and down like jackrabbits, multiple people gone at the same time doing the same thing and no corroborating evidence from those around them.

(And yes, meowy, an hour 15 minutes is nothing for a child.)

 

[GraceBlue]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

Oh yeah they can cry forever. My 2 year old doesnt sleep in her crib because whenever we put her in her crib she cried so hard she threw up every time. She sleeps with us for now. At night she feels our arms or heads just to check to see if we are still there with her. If she can't feel us, she freaks and starts screaming.

 

[Reannan]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

I think it depends on the child's personality. I have one that would, and one that wouldn't. As a Mother, when I hear a story like the one about Madeleine crying for over an hour, possibly all alone, it breaks my heart. I can imagine her having had a wonderful day filled with strangers in the creche, only to be excited about having lunch with her parents. Then, back to the creche until late evening when it was time to go home, have a quick dinner, a bath, and be put to bed. My heart breaks at the thought of her waking up all alone in a strange apartment, and not knowing where her parents were! My children would have been throwing tantrums about going to the pool or the beach instead....and that is what I do with my children when we take beach vacations. Children that are in the sun all day will pass out fairly quickly, and they are out to the world after dinner and a bath. From the reports we have had, however, the kids spent the better part of their vacation playing games and doing arts and crafts in the creche.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I don't have kids, so this is a serious question. No sarcasm meant, truly.

Would a kid really cry that long if left alone for the length thought in all this?

I would have thought a kid would run out of tears or their nose would stop up to the point that they'd need to stop in order to breathe. That is a lot of crying to carry out in that time span.

If no one was offering up attention by way of leaving her in a room alone, I would have imagined the kid would get bored and start pouting or playing with toys, or something other than crying. But if someone was in the room terrorizing her or in there but ignoring her, I can see a kid breaking out the massive tears for either reason.

But, I don't have kids so I have no clue Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question.

meowy,
I would say that yes I think a child could cry that long especially if strongwilled and frightened!!!!! I am sure that being a 3yo left alone in a strange room would be very scary! My kids are between 12-16 and they would not like being left in the hotel room alone at night. I would guess that after this event Maddie was exhausted physically and emotionally. When I think about this poor baby crying out to the one person she should be able to count on it breaks my heart. I just imagine her saying "daddy, daddy" over and over and getting no response. Lying there in the dark helpless and alone. This makes me angry!

 

[CaliKid]

I think it depends on the child's personality. I have one that would, and one that wouldn't. As a Mother, when I hear a story like the one about Madeleine crying for over an hour, possibly all alone, it breaks my heart. I can imagine her having had a wonderful day filled with strangers in the creche, only to be excited about having lunch with her parents. Then, back to the creche until late evening when it was time to go home, have a quick dinner, a bath, and be put to bed. My heart breaks at the thought of her waking up all alone in a strange apartment, and not knowing where her parents were! My children would have been throwing tantrums about going to the pool or the beach instead....and that is what I do with my children when we take beach vacations. Children that are in the sun all day will pass out fairly quickly, and they are out to the world after dinner and a bath. From the reports we have had, however, the kids spent the better part of their vacation playing games and doing arts and crafts in the creche.

In other words, Madeleine and the twins spent their "family" vacation- a week they'd looked forward to so they could have their parents' time and attention- with strangers.

 

[Reannan]

Calikid said "In other words, Madeleine and the twins spent their "family" vacation- a week they'd looked forward to so they could have their parents' time and attention- with strangers."

Yep, that is the way I have read it in the papers that have described their days. It is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. Why didn't they at least put all of the kids in an adjoining room, and then all of them party in the next room? I will be the first to admit that I love to have a good time :woohoo: :blushing: , but I would never, ever, EVER endanger my children by leaving them all alone in a foreign country in a strange room. I just don't understand it.