Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 8

[CaliKid]

...Incidentally I've also read that Robert Murat looks suspicious because he has a 'un-coordinated eye, is dark, overweight and smirks'.

However, since our new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, also has these exact attributes, I don't think that we can assume that these 'gut reactions' count for much either.

:laugh: LOL

 

[CaliKid]

You seem to think it is the press' job to 'chastise' people, rather than give factual accounts. In the main, British journalists are trained to write articles which let the facts speak for themselves.

We tend to think any think 'chastising' should be left to the courts as our judicial system assumes the innocence of all parties until proved guilty by court procedure. And that includes the McCanns and Robert Murat.

Not to be argumentative, but I found this on a website. Now I will freely admit that it's one of those blog-forums that are popping up about the McCanns, so take what you want from it. But this deals with your statement which I bolded above.

http://forums.orange.co.uk/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=21&nav=messages&webtag=fs_curraffairs&tid=43166

A reporter from The Mirror in the UK was the first person to report Robert Murat as a suspect.

And GM was invited to attend the police Bravery Awards dinner, for which he won a standing ovation, by The Mirror news.

Is it the duty of the news organizations to report news, or have they slid over and are now creating their own?

 

[mrsmousemat]

Not to be argumentative, but I found this on a website. Now I will freely admit that it's one of those blog-forums that are popping up about the McCanns, so take what you want from it. But this deals with your statement which I bolded above.

http://forums.orange.co.uk/n/pfx/for... rs&tid=43166

A reporter from The Mirror in the UK was the first person to report Robert Murat as a suspect.

And GM was invited to attend the police Bravery Awards dinner, for which he won a standing ovation, by The Mirror news.

Is it the duty of the news organizations to report news, or have they slid over and are now creating their own?
**********************************
You might not have noticed my scare prefix of.. 'in the main' on the post or noticed that in a previous post I said that it was a British reporter who reported him.

She must be very popular with the rest of the press corps because it blows interviews with people who have read about this departure.

However, they may be looking on the bright side as there has been acres of print about Robert Murat.

A journalist, when hearing the golden words 'I've just committed a murder,' leans forward and says winningly: 'Really? Would you mind repeating that clearly into this tape recorder?', as they have very scary editors, who would not be best pleased if they fail to come back with the story.

Crime reporting was not my area of expertise, but I do know that reporters get loads of off-the-record information from the police. Whether or not the information is good, that's another story.

I tried to look back at articles in the Britsh press about Robert Murat and apparently he had been a bit of a stalker to a woman colleague. I was trying to find out whether she was a small tiny child-like woman or a well built one, as they say, as it might give some indication as to his preferences. But no luck.

If I find it again, I will post a link.

 

[BethInAK]

Second - while I agree with your assessment of what might happen when you are in a panic, generally speaking, when a person finds themselves in such a position, it is not uncommon to: 1) check self for injury, potential harm and react accordingly; 2) once self is covered, do a mental check of where those of importance might be - run through your mind wife/husband/children/parents; 3) at this point - if you are safe, almost always you will check to be sure your "immediate" others are safe. As a parent, this is your first priority, it is second nature; 4) you do what is necessary to protect your "immediate" others.

I do not believe a parent, who just discovered her child missing, would abandon her 2 other children, even for a moment. There were so many options here.... picking up the phone, standing outside the door and screaming, taking the children with her. Having given this quite a bit of thought - picking up the phone might have seemed like a "nonoption" knowing the person on the other end would speak Portugese, not English - discard this immediately because you have no time not to be understood. Standing outside the door and screaming - definite option, after all the Tapas Bar was within sight of the apartment, but maybe being of a more reserved culture, this type of behavior would be unacceptable to a panic'ed mind. Picking up the remaining 2 children and running for cover - totally acceptable on all accounts, except one... leaving the apartment without knowing where the 3rd child was. To my mind - it would be extremely difficult to walk/run out of that apartment not knowing where the 3rd child was.... Having gone through the safety issues related to my "immediate" others - GM waiting for me, twin 1 in bed, twin 2 in bed, Madeleine missing....., double check, still missing, twins still there, okay... I need help.... she's not in the bathroom, she's not under the bed, I need help.... where is she, need GM, what do I do? what do I do? phone - they won't understand, call GM - he doesn't have his cell phone (I don't have my cell phone), call him from the door (then I'll make quite the scene), go get him.... go get him.... the twins, what about the twins????? what do I do??? I need GM, Madeleine is missing, I need help.... go get him.

First thing i would do is TEAR APART that room, looking for the child. All the bedding would be disturbed, closets ripped apart, the twins woken up by my moving their crib. Of course, my first reaction when my son isnt' where I expect him to be is to LOOK FOR HIM.

I've generally found him on the other side of bed where I can't see him or hiding in a closet (dumb mother taught him about hiding). But I've never run screaming out of the house that he was kidnapped.

 

[BethInAK]

At this point the scenarios for the body being disposed of by the parents seem unlikely at best. Could a friend have helped by disposing of the body? I suppose so but I suspect L.E. has looked into all those possibilities.

At this point it would be far a simpler scenario for someone else to have walked into the room and just taken the child away to raise, sell, or rape and kill and dispose of the body far enough away from where everyone was looking to have it go undiscovered this long. The child could have been carried away like any other child or could have been placed in a bag, a rug, a clothing hamper or even an ice chest on wheels and carted out past everyone.

I actually think the simplest answer to this missing child is not a stranger kidnapping.

How hard do you think it would be to carry your "sleeping" child (wouldn't look odd to have a sleeping child in her parents arms, as the McCanns friend who witnessed this supposed kidnapping can tell you) to your vehicle, drive to a bridge and dump the body over the side? Or to the woods somewhere?

But I'm still thinking she left on her own.

 

[BethInAK]

Oh Yes!! Searches for anything that only bashes the McCanns.
Interviews or statements given by Gerry McCann are even picked apart for words he's used to see if they can also be used against him.

I actually think Ms Mousemat presented SEVERAL different scenarios - I'm not sure that this is could be considered "mccann bashing" to point out the possible scenarios by which Madeleine could have gone missing.

 

[Shazza]

I'm interested to know how you have read the police reports in that you are so certain that there is a 'pact of silence'. Wish I had your contacts...

If you mean not speaking to the press... well that is the right and is also seemly prohibited by Portuguese law.

Still it's always nice to hear from one that has extensive inside knowledge from the Portuguese police - not to mention a smattering of Portuguese law.

Sadly thought, you appear to have a dictionary without the word compassion in it.

Its not what you know but who you know, the right contacts come in very handy for information in this case.

 

[BethInAK]

A few days after Madeleine's disappearance, journalists became suspicious of Robert Murat, a local British expatriate who lives with his mother next door to the apartment and appeared over-helpful. They notified the PJ who already had their own suspicions of him. Three of the McCanns' friends claim, after the PJ began to investigate him, that they'd seen him around the apartment on May 3, peeking into windows. RM says he wasn't there; his alibi was that he was with his girlfriend, Michaela, but he later said he was with his mother at her house, eating dinner, and stayed in all night. Phone records supposedly confirm his alibi, but the PJ is still suspicious because he changed it. RM has a wife in the UK and a daughter the same age as Madeleine whom he claims resembles the missing girl. Her name is Sophie, but he originally said it was Madeleine. RM had been in the UK visiting his daughter but returned to Portugal two days before Madeleine disappeared.

RM hired a rental car while he was under suspicion of the PJ (after May 3) and has given at least two reasons why he needed it instead of using his own. RM's house has been searched and a "secret room" was found, but the original owner claimed he had the room installed. RM was extensively questioned and named a suspect. It has been reported that his computer had child *advertiser censored* on it. DNA samples were taken.

RM's girlfriend, Michaela, and her husband, with whom she still lives, were questioned. The husband is employed by the resort.

A business associate of RM named Sergei Malinka made a telephone call to RM late on the night of May 3. He owns a web business. SM's house was also searched.

You know, seeing all that written down together makes Murat more suspicious than I had previously felt. But "it has been reported that..." - does that mean there was kiddie *advertiser censored*, or there was a false report?

 

[BethInAK]

Sadly thought, you appear to have a dictionary without the word compassion in it.

If calling a neglectful parent neglectful is not compassionate, sign me up.

 

[BethInAK]

You seem to think it is the press' job to 'chastise' people, rather than give factual accounts. In the main, British journalists are trained to write articles which let the facts speak for themselves.

We tend to think any think 'chastising' should be left to the courts as our judicial system assumes the innocence of all parties until proved guilty by court procedure. And that includes the McCanns and Robert Murat.

I think the press expresses opinions. And writes articles to support those opinions. I don't believe that the press is at all unbiased nor is it desireable for reporters to just present "facts" - people wouldnt' be all that interested. The human factor - for the british its the suffering parents - is more interesting.

 

[Shazza]

I actually think Ms Mousemat presented SEVERAL different scenarios - I'm not sure that this is could be considered "mccann bashing" to point out the possible scenarios by which Madeleine could have gone missing.

The bolded below is a case of one scenerio put forth by a poster. Quite graphic and imo could have been written with a bit more compassion, (obviously of which I have none or dont know the meaning of),this could have happened as many other ideas that have been put forward. I also do not think that the McCanns have been singled out by anyone here for bashing, we have just been stating the only truth we know in this whole horrible injustice, the parents are guiltly of a crime and should be dealt with by the justice system. Everything else is suppostion or specualtion, or nobody knows so they blame the press, the P LE etc, then stories are made up and presented via the media, whom we have all learnt to take with a grain of salt.
If you really want to just get into the websleuthing, please dont use half of your post to point out things, that have nothing to do with sleuthing this case.


Ok so how long does it take to get from "we're home with the kids" to the point of murdering one of them? And then how long would it take to cut up a body that size into small enough pieces that they might be unnoticed if disposed of? Hunters- How long would it take to cut up an animal the same size right after it had been killed? And how much time would one need for clean up afterwards, knowing that L.E. would soon be crawling all over the place? And if the death was unplanned then how long would it take to figure out how to dispose of the body and then come up with the fake kidnap scenario.

Even if one of them walked in and immediately hit her in the head with a hammer killing her instantly (or smothered her, or choked her to death which takes longer than a hammer, 3 1/2 hours seems a tad short on time required. Oh and how was it no one heard anything while all this was going on?

 

[Shazza]

If calling a neglectful parent neglectful is not compassionate, sign me up.

ME TOO,

I have no compassion for the parents, my compassion is with the victim Madelaine.

 

[CaliKid]

First thing i would do is TEAR APART that room, looking for the child. All the bedding would be disturbed, closets ripped apart, the twins woken up by my moving their crib. Of course, my first reaction when my son isnt' where I expect him to be is to LOOK FOR HIM.

I've generally found him on the other side of bed where I can't see him or hiding in a closet (dumb mother taught him about hiding). But I've never run screaming out of the house that he was kidnapped.

Once you realize your missing child isn't in the room, panic would set in but levied with the maternal response to protect the other two children. I think a gut reaction would be to just stand there screaming for help.

 

[Trino]

Once you realize your missing child isn't in the room, panic would set in but levied with the maternal response to protect the other two children. I think a gut reaction would be to just stand there screaming for help.

I absolutely agree that the entire episode and reaction was strange.

While I don't think the parents killed their child, I do think they placed their children in a dangerous situation. What they did was against Portuguese law, and they should be charged. They need to assume complete responsibility for Madeline's disappearance or have someone assume it for them. Certainly, I don't wish them to spend jail time, but maybe their collections can pay a hefty fine for them.

 

[BethInAK]

Once you realize your missing child isn't in the room, panic would set in but levied with the maternal response to protect the other two children. I think a gut reaction would be to just stand there screaming for help.

If you werent' too panicked you might pick up the phone and dial 911 or equivalent.
edited: Probably holding your two safe children clutched to your chest.

I think I'd also be screaming "BENJAMIN" out the doors, looking for him.

 

[colomom]

I am with you all also. No way I could leave the babies in the apartment and run back to the bar, especially knowing just how far that is (from the many pictures). I would definately grab them immediately, this I know for sure.

From that point I am not so sure, probably yelling my child's name I would guess.

 

[CaliKid]

Something else that bothers me a little. It has been reported that KM went back to the Tapas restaurant looking for Gerry, and when he and their friends returned, the twins were still sleeping. So either KM searched the apartment much more quietly than panic would allow or...

 

[Shazza]

Something else that bothers me a little. It has been reported that KM went back to the Tapas restaurant looking for Gerry, and when he and their friends returned, the twins were still sleeping. So either KM searched the apartment much more quietly than panic would allow or...

That is something that also bugged me, and what happened with the twins after the disappearance of Madelaine that night.

 

[CaliKid]

That is something that also bugged me, and what happened with the twins after the disappearance of Madelaine that night.

You would assume someone was asked to watch them while people searched, or maybe KM stayed with them. Surely the parents wouldn't be so clueless as to leave them alone.

 

[Shazza]

You would assume someone was asked to watch them while people searched, or maybe KM stayed with them. Surely the parents wouldn't be so clueless as to leave them alone.

Hopefully not, but what I was thinking with all the commotion were the children easy to wake up, just thinking that if they werent if could prove that they were sedated, just a thought. If the twins were tested we would know if there was any sign of sedatives in their system, but at the time this would never have been brought up.