Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #16

[Gingergirlie]

Sorry, went too visual there!

 

[tedtink]

BOTH?!?! At the same time?!?!

I think in different photographs.

 

[MENDEL]

I think in different photographs.

Seems reasonable.

 

[redplanet]

In her WS JT said the man she saw was walking across the top of the road from {her} left to right direction.
Totman who was ID'd later, had picked his child up from the night creche and would have been walking in the opposite direction to which JT saw him that evening.
I don't believe JT was lying, but an example of how memory can be malleable. imo

 

[redplanet]

JT says she saw him cross the road from west to east. I suggest that is exactly the way he went. Remember the Met have not released the man's statement. Why should he not be walking towards the creche at about 10pm? There is actually an example on the Wednesday night of another couple picking up a child from creche then later carrying that child back towards the creche, for a very good and logical reason.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Sure. And no one will guess a car parked on the street is from an abductor in action. Same reasoning. Why bother? Smithsonian sighting is as valuable and vague as all other sightings that night and all are worth the same. Only interpretations differ and some are quite palatable. But assuming CB is perpetrator I prefer to analyze things prospectively under such assumption and not retrospectively trying to make irrelevant facts relevant. CB has nothing to do with PDL village and so he fled somewhere else. Then, he wouldn't park a car that far away just because no one would guess he was carrying an abducted child but it would be extremely suspicious to see a car on street.

I am trying to understand your thinking - you would rather try to guess what happened based on what you know about CB versus trying to link him to something that did happen?

The Smithman sighting IMO is more valuable than other sightings because of the timing, number of people and that it’s unaccounted for. This doesn’t make it certain but it should continue to be treated as the strong clue that it is.

 

[Ardoch]

Thanks and I agree with you on these other perps and abductions but my point was related to a child being potentially carried over a quite a distance after being removed from the bed and how the child would have responded to being woken IF at all.

In the case of the abduction and murder of AM, in Scotland, she was carried quite a distance by her abductor. She was also a couple of years older than MM. I would imagine if a child were to waken, that the cunning of these abductors is to lie to the child. JMO

 

[tedtink]

JT says she saw him cross the road from west to east. I suggest that is exactly the way he went. Remember the Met have not released the man's statement. Why should he not be walking towards the creche at about 10pm? There is actually an example on the Wednesday night of another couple picking up a child from creche then later carrying that child back towards the creche, for a very good and logical reason.

He had picked his daughter up from the creche...............

"Julian Totman walked near the McCanns’ apartment holding his two-year-old girl after getting her from a creche at the resort in Praia da Luz."
Why did Madeleine McCann cops waste years investigating GP sighting?

The problem with the Jane Tanner sighting
The problem with the Jane Tanner sighting

 

[redplanet]

I am trying to understand your thinking - you would rather try to guess what happened based on what you know about CB versus trying to link him to something that did happen?

The Smithman sighting IMO is more valuable than other sightings because of the timing, number of people and that it’s unaccounted for. This doesn’t make it certain but it should continue to be treated as the strong clue that it is.

IMO it might be unsafe to assume the perp would not be carrying some kind of bag?

 

[tedtink]

I am trying to understand your thinking - you would rather try to guess what happened based on what you know about CB versus trying to link him to something that did happen?

The Smithman sighting IMO is more valuable than other sightings because of the timing, number of people and that it’s unaccounted for. This doesn’t make it certain but it should continue to be treated as the strong clue that it is.

That's not what the Police initially thought.
They switched their focus from the Tannerman sighting to Smithman in 2013!
Yes after 6 years SY had their "revelation" moment (Probably when they actually spoke to Totman and realised he was actually walking in the opposite direction as JT said!)
So even SY didn't even think MS sighting as equally important at that time.
imo

The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann: The Controversial 'Smithman' debate

 

[redplanet]

He had picked his daughter up from the creche...............

"Julian Totman walked near the McCanns’ apartment holding his two-year-old girl after getting her from a creche at the resort in Praia da Luz."
Why did Madeleine McCann cops waste years investigating GP sighting?

The problem with the Jane Tanner sighting
The problem with the Jane Tanner sighting

The man did come forward, he told GNR in May 2007 the possibility he was the man seen by JT, IMO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO it might be unsafe to assume the perp would not be carrying some kind of bag?

That’s true, especially if an unplanned abduction or a break-in to carry out the abduction were required. If the perpetrator knew with certainty he could get access to 5a, a bag would be unnecessary. It a good point to test the Smithman is CB theory.

 

[redplanet]

Real example on the Wednesday of carrying a child towards creche (after having already collected that child from creche) see
"went back again to the club ...."
Bridget O'Donnell on her time with Madeleine McCann in Portugal

 

[tedtink]

The man did come forward, he told GNR in May 2007 the possibility he was the man seen by JT, IMO.

I know he came forward - His testimony at the time was not really acknowledged, probably due to JT saying the person was going in the other direction!
SY tracked him down years later that's when they had their "moment of revelation" and ruled out Tannerman as the perp.


MOO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That's not what the Police initially thought.
They switched their focus from the Tannerman sighting to Smithman in 2013!
Yes after 6 years SY had their "revelation" moment (Probably when they actually spoke to Totman and realised he was actually walking in the opposite direction as JT said!)
So even SY didn't even think MS sighting as equally important at that time.
imo

The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann: The Controversial 'Smithman' debate

That’s a good link, thank you.

 

[redplanet]

I know he came forward - His testimony at the time was not really acknowledged, probably due to JT saying the person was going in the other direction!
SY tracked him down years later that's when they had their "moment of revelation" and ruled out Tannerman as the perp.


MOO

IMO Redwood would fully understand the absolutely crucial issue of direction, and there is no way Redwood would identify the man JT = the carrier seen by the woman JT, unless he (Redwood) had resolved the direction issue. I already provided one possible reason for the man JT heading towards the creche even at 10pm.

 

[tedtink]

Real example on the Wednesday of carrying a child towards creche (after having already collected that child from creche) see
"went back again to the club ...."
Bridget O'Donnell on her time with Madeleine McCann in Portugal

So you think Tannerman was walking back to the Creche with his sleeping little girl in his arms in order to pick up another one of his children?
Why would Tannerman go back to the creche with his child when his wife was on holiday with him? Surely you would leave the sleeping child with your wife?

Your quote is a little misleading as you say it is the same child but it's not - it was a different child they went to collect.

"My phone rang as our food arrived; our baby had woken up. I walked the round trip to collect him from the kiddie club, then back to the restaurant. He kept crying and eventually we left our meal unfinished and walked back again to the club to fetch our sleeping daughter. Jes carried her home in a blanket. The next night we stayed in. It was Thursday, May 3

Bridget O'Donnell on her time with Madeleine McCann in Portugal

 

[lex8396]

I agree.
If SM sighting was the perp, the route doesn't seem far to walk in normal circumstances.
Carrying a child after having taken them from their bed, putting them over your shoulder, going through a window, or door without them waking, or stirring baffles me.
I can't see how a child would not have woken up, or stirred, over that distance and a child, if woken, cannot usually be soothed by an accent or voice that is unfamiliar to them imo.

**Unless the perp used a chemical/gas over her mouth first....while she was sleeping....i doubt she would wake up while being carried.

 

[redplanet]

So you think Tannerman was walking back to the Creche with his sleeping little girl in his arms in order to pick up another one of his children?

IMO he crossed the road west to east exactly as witness JT describes. So yes possibly he is walking to the creche. A possible reason to do so at 10pm might be to collect an older child from creche, just like the example I linked on Wed evening.

 

[ashmc79]

Wee scoot up the road - Derry lol

I guessed from your pic of SR Michael!! I'm in Limerick