Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #16

[Lyndaloo]

This is quite an interesting perspective on MS sighting.
Espacio Exterior: The abduction of Madeleine McCann: Why can't Martin Smith, the star witness, recognize Chistian B?

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS
From MS Statement taken on 26/5/07
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

From MS Statement taken 20/9/07
McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

From PS Statement taken 26/5/07
He adds also that the individual did not try to hide his face or lower his look, [doing] nothing [that would be] perceived as strange.
— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.

 

[Sharkbite]

What about the motorhome?

Until recently (30th March footage) the motorhome was the last and the first vehicle CB was reportedly seen with each side of 03 May, according to DF and then MT. If MM was transported a long distance, this would likely have been the vehicle used and not the VW. IMO

Where did it come from?
Who was the previous registered owner
Did CB actually own it?
When did it turn up in Augsburg?
Where is it now?*

As far as I know LE have never mentioned that they have the motorhome in their possession. Only media accounts and CB's friend Bjorn R in his interview mentioned the motorhome was parked at the box factory in Neuwegersleben.

LE have stated that the VW and the Jag are in their possession, in which they state that no usable DNA was found. No appeal for information about the motorhome has been made by LE

Earlier reports state that it was a 'grotty caravan' parked close to the buried dog that had the swimsuits in, as time went by and after DF told about the motorhome in Foral the "grotty caravan" turned into a motorhome. Magic!

This could of course be explained by the many interpretations of motorhome used by the media; caravan, camper van, trailer, mobilehome ect.

What is the probability that if MM had spent an amount of time in the motorhome she would have left DNA traces, especially if.....? For sure if she had, then LE would have found them if LE does in fact have the motorhome in their possession.

If LE don't have it, why no appeal for information about it?

I don't expect any answers, but hopefully this post will bring some focus on the motorhome which is being displaced by all the attention the VW recieves.

 

[Sharkbite]

Before and after, search imagery from the box factory Neuwegersleben site if anyone is interested.

The vehicle outside the house was there from at least Mar 22 2015 until Aug 10 2015, the next available date is Apr 4 2018 and the vehicle is no longer there.

IG went missing May 2015 and this area was searched in 2016.

I have no idea what the vehicle is apart from its larger than a standard car, is it even a vehicle? could it be the 'grotty caravan' mentioned in some reports that was close to where the dog was buried and the CP found? I have a hard time seeing it as a caravan, maybe fresh eyes can help Notice the disturbed earth by the house corner, dog burial spot maybe?

Whatever it is parked outside the house, it was there before and after IG went missing and wasn't there after the search.

View attachment 257712

View attachment 257713
After search


خرائط ‪Google Box factory Neuwegersleben

 

[Denis R Tandib]

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS
From MS Statement taken on 26/5/07
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

From MS Statement taken 20/9/07
McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

From PS Statement taken 26/5/07
He adds also that the individual did not try to hide his face or lower his look, [doing] nothing [that would be] perceived as strange.
— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.

Given the vagueness of the initial descriptions, I don’t think GM or CB could be ruled in or out. The subsequent statement from MS after seeing GM carrying Sean down the plane steps, IMO adds nothing - it’s the only way to carry a 15kg four-year-old, especially if you want them to stay asleep.

The facts relating to the sighting do make it important evidence though:
1. Nine people where there and three adults made statements;
2. It was at a time that corresponds to the abduction window;
3. It was in walking distance from where the abduction took place;
4. The child had hair colour and length matching MM;
5. The child was in the same age range as MM;
6. The child was dressed the same way as MM;
7. Importantly, to my knowledge, no one has reported that the sighting could have been them.

The question then becomes how likely is it that it could have been a child other than MM? IMO, it’s unlikely that another blond four-year-old girl was being carried through backstreets, uncovered at 10pm, on a cold night within a 500m radius of Apt. 5a.

 

[Newthoughts]

Given the vagueness of the initial descriptions, I don’t think GM or CB could be ruled in or out. The subsequent statement from MS after seeing GM carrying Sean down the plane steps, IMO adds nothing - it’s the only way to carry a 15kg four-year-old, especially if you want them to stay asleep.

The facts relating to the sighting do make it important evidence though:
1. Nine people where there and three adults made statements;
2. It was at a time that corresponds to the abduction window;
3. It was in walking distance from where the abduction took place;
4. The child had hair colour and length matching MM;
5. The child was in the same age range as MM;
6. The child was dressed the same way as MM;
7. Importantly, to my knowledge, no one has reported that the sighting could have been them.

The question then becomes how likely is it that it could have been a child other than MM? IMO, it’s unlikely that another blond four-year-old girl was being carried through backstreets, uncovered at 10pm, on a cold night within a 500m radius of Apt. 5a.

I agree. I don't think the photofits are useful because it was dark and how much attention do you normally pay to the faces of passing strangers. None of us are expecting to be walking past an abductor.

But you would remember a child being carried and 9 people saw it.

I'd add in that campervans and jags are the sorts of vehicles people would notice and remember. They're the sorts of things people look at. Yet as far as I recall nobody noticed them on the night in question. So bizarre as it seems - maybe he did abduct and walk

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I agree. I don't think the photofits are useful because it was dark and how much attention do you normally pay to the faces of passing strangers. None of us are expecting to be walking past an abductor.

But you would remember a child being carried and 9 people saw it.

I'd add in that campervans and jags are the sorts of vehicles people would notice and remember. They're the sorts of things people look at. Yet as far as I recall nobody noticed them on the night in question. So bizarre as it seems - maybe he did abduct and walk

I agree, if the abductor was CB, the VW WF is very conspicuous. Equally, he knew the area well and probably felt confident that the streets would be empty.

If this theory is correct, other likely assumptions can be made - lone abductor, planned abduction, exit via front door of 5A, safe location (property/vehicle) close to sighting etc.

 

[Chiatos]

So a little more info on the Bedford van from a couple of sources.
Note: Court Files*

"Court files show that Brueckner used the van, which had Portuguese license plates, to steal diesel from two lorries with Michael Tatschl, an Austrian friend, in April 2006.

The pair were arrested after they were caught stealing the fuel, but freed in December after eight months in prison.

The van was then taken apart after being valued at £90 by a court seeking a fine linked to the theft conviction.

The van ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard.

According to Expresso, the vehicle was seized seven months after Maddie went missing.

Court papers, however, suggest it was confiscated in April 2006 before she vanished and was never returned to Brueckner."

Madeleine McCann suspect's van 'crushed by police destroying key evidence'


"Local media said Brueckner failed to pay and his van was taken by police from a scrap yard he had given as his address. The van was kept in a police compound for 18 months before being scrapped."

Madeleine McCann suspect admitted sex assault to judge year before she vanished

So the Court dates in the Mirror article tell us what we need to know about the Bedford and it wouldn't have had any link to MM so no evidence would have been found regarding MM contrary to what a lot of media reports may have suggested.

IF the second article from the Daily Record is to be believed then IMO it was BP + 1 other person who cleared out the house - we have suggested this before.
imo BP used the Bedford to transport and / or store CB's stuff, then kept the Bedford in his Scrapyard until LE seized it in April 2006.
There's been confusion because the van was in a "scrapyard" at one stage - but "scrapped" by LE at another imo.
BP most likely saw the rape footage and may well have been one of the witnesses at the rape trial imo.

You know, according to Olive Press, the two German friends who staged the burglary, burned the stuff they had found.
But we don't know which version is correct: stuff scrapped together with car / or burned by friends.

 

[Hellyl]

I still believe she may have been carried quite casually with no rush because there was a night creche nearby and the place was full of holiday makers with children. I think it was so brazen that it wouldn't arise suspicion at the time. A child who had been collected at creche would have had shoes on, most likely would not have been dressed for bed, possibly would have had a favourite blanket or toy with them, or maybe bag for snacks, there was no mention of any of these things (specifically shoes/jacket/blanket) in any of the sightings. I'm confused at the comparison and so called "similarity" in the sightings and how GM came off the plane. GM carried the child upright off the plane, while the sightings in PdL were of a child being carried across the arms. IMO this would be the most uncomfortable and awkward way to carry a child, it's almost automatic to hold them upright with their head on your shoulder. IMO

 

[Chiatos]

After reading this report, it would seem to make sense it was M3 that firebombed SM's car. If that thing can make any sense at all it would be here. M3. They were obsessed he knew the truth and even offered him half a million euros, they say. As a M3 investigator said "I didn’t feel sorry for anybody. The little girl who had been abducted - that is the person I felt sorry for. Nobody else."

McCann PIs offered £430k to Maddie suspect if he 'told them everything'

The thing is that the sighting of a woman handing over a bundle over a fence on May 4th; her description matches that of Michaela (German), RM's gf at the time.
Then there is something else: whoever would be doing illegal stuff, would never give his or her dark phone number to PJ.
RM and Michaela were cleared when their phone records showed that they were not in the area where the sighting had taken place.
Their mobile phone numbers mentioned in the Processo files have been checked.
But did PJ or M3 investigate on whether they owned other phones too?

I bet you that CB had more than one mobile phone. At least one for his dirty stuff and at least one for his "clean and open" doings.
Which phone number would he give to police when arrested? He would keep the dark number secret.
That applies to anyone doing dark stuff. It is up to investigators to find out whether a POI or a suspect owns a dark number besides a clean number. Has that been done in the case of RM and SM?

 

[Chiatos]

Before and after, search imagery from the box factory Neuwegersleben site if anyone is interested.

The vehicle outside the house was there from at least Mar 22 2015 until Aug 10 2015, the next available date is Apr 4 2018 and the vehicle is no longer there.

IG went missing May 2015 and this area was searched in 2016.

I have no idea what the vehicle is apart from its larger than a standard car, is it even a vehicle? could it be the 'grotty caravan' mentioned in some reports that was close to where the dog was buried and the CP found? I have a hard time seeing it as a caravan, maybe fresh eyes can help Notice the disturbed earth by the house corner, dog burial spot maybe?

Whatever it is parked outside the house, it was there before and after IG went missing and wasn't there after the search.

View attachment 257712

View attachment 257713
After search
View attachment 258764

خرائط ‪Google Box factory Neuwegersleben

Shark, the links don't function?

 

[Sharkbite]

Shark, the links don't function?

Ok, they do for me, I'll upload the screens again shortly.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I still believe she may have been carried quite casually with no rush because there was a night creche nearby and the place was full of holiday makers with children. I think it was so brazen that it wouldn't arise suspicion at the time. A child who had been collected at creche would have had shoes on, most likely would not have been dressed for bed, possibly would have had a favourite blanket or toy with them, or maybe bag for snacks, there was no mention of any of these things (specifically shoes/jacket/blanket) in any of the sightings. I'm confused at the comparison and so called "similarity" in the sightings and how GM came off the plane. GM carried the child upright off the plane, while the sightings in PdL were of a child being carried across the arms. IMO this would be the most uncomfortable and awkward way to carry a child, it's almost automatic to hold them upright with their head on your shoulder. IMO

All three Statements from the Smith family describe the child sleeping and carried in an upright position. I agree that this is certainly the natural way to carry a four-year-old.

 

[Sharkbite]

Before and after, search imagery from the box factory Neuwegersleben site if anyone is interested.

The vehicle outside the house was there from at least Mar 22 2015 until Aug 10 2015, the next available date is Apr 4 2018 and the vehicle is no longer there.

IG went missing May 2015 and this area was searched in 2016.

I have no idea what the vehicle is apart from its larger than a standard car, is it even a vehicle? could it be the 'grotty caravan' mentioned in some reports that was close to where the dog was buried and the CP found? I have a hard time seeing it as a caravan, maybe fresh eyes can help Notice the disturbed earth by the house corner, dog burial spot maybe?

Whatever it is parked outside the house, it was there before and after IG went missing and wasn't there after the search.

View attachment 257712

View attachment 257713
After search
View attachment 258764

خرائط ‪Google Box factory Neuwegersleben

Reply to fix links, hope they work now
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏ Box factory

 

[Tim N]

After reading this report, it would seem to make sense it was M3 that firebombed SM's car. If that thing can make any sense at all it would be here. M3. They were obsessed he knew the truth and even offered him half a million euros, they say. As a M3 investigator said "I didn’t feel sorry for anybody. The little girl who had been abducted - that is the person I felt sorry for. Nobody else."

McCann PIs offered £430k to Maddie suspect if he 'told them everything'

let's see..ummm.. $500k for something i could end up spending a long time behind bars..

 

[MENDEL]

Before and after, search imagery from the box factory Neuwegersleben site if anyone is interested.

The vehicle outside the house was there from at least Mar 22 2015 until Aug 10 2015, the next available date is Apr 4 2018 and the vehicle is no longer there.

IG went missing May 2015 and this area was searched in 2016.

I have no idea what the vehicle is apart from its larger than a standard car, is it even a vehicle? could it be the 'grotty caravan' mentioned in some reports that was close to where the dog was buried and the CP found? I have a hard time seeing it as a caravan, maybe fresh eyes can help Notice the disturbed earth by the house corner, dog burial spot maybe?

Whatever it is parked outside the house, it was there before and after IG went missing and wasn't there after the search.

View attachment 257712

View attachment 257713
After search
View attachment 258764

خرائط ‪Google Box factory Neuwegersleben

Assuming that's a vehicle and that it touches house, then its length is 7.5m at most. Not enough for an Allegro motorhome I think.

 

[Sharkbite]

Assuming that's a vehicle and that it touches house, then its length is 7.5m at most. Not enough for an Allegro motorhome I think.

Long enough to be a 'grotty caravan" though

 

[MENDEL]

let's see..ummm.. $500k for something i could end up spending a long time behind bars..

Only if you were guilty...

 

[MENDEL]

Long enough to be a 'grotty caravan" though

What do you mean 'grotty caravan', Shark?

 

[Sharkbite]

What do you mean 'grotty caravan', Shark?

As far as I know LE have never mentioned that they have the motorhome in their possession. Only media accounts and CB's friend Bjorn R in his interview mentioned the motorhome was parked at the box factory in Neuwegersleben.

Earlier reports state that it was a 'grotty caravan' parked close to the buried dog that had the swimsuits in, as time went by and after DF told about the motorhome in Foral the "grotty caravan" turned into a motorhome. Magic!

Do a google for CB grotty caravan Neuwegersleben.

 

[Hellyl]

All three Statements from the Smith family describe the child sleeping and carried in an upright position. I agree that this is certainly the natural way to carry a four-year-old.

The photofit of the child being carried shows the child being carried across the arms of the man, whose statement led to that depiction I wonder?