Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #29

[Dlk79]

and a strange one, but they are now referring to him in the English press as Christian B, not his full name now

I think The Sun have always referred to him as Christian B though, haven't they? All the other British Press outlets were still using his full name a couple of days ago.

 

[SuperdadV8]

What's curious is that if CB made a confession of sorts in |Orgiva (2008) to HB, someone who openly says the pair didn't know each other well or get on, why HB never, ever mentioned a single word to MS or MT during the years which followed.
HB could have also tried to cut a deal with the Greek police during the time he served his sentence for people trafficking, yet chose not to.
The 10 year gap between abduction & HB disclosures is very significant imo if Statute of Limitations laws have to be taken into consideration but who benefits from that?

A possible statue of limitation after 10 years could be very plausible to that. That's what i meant according to a possible link between Helge B. and the case.

Quote: "Just one word, guilty!"

Just because of a "confession" of a guy who likes to brag around at a festival?

We'll see....

 

[RichardKimble]

And it may all start to come out now,. It's taken a year to bring these to court, and it means they have spent a year going through all the film's and pictures etc etc, and a strange one, but they are now referring to him in the English press as Christian B, not his full name now

Or there's nothing to link CB, he's not being charged so what link does he have to those on charge ?

 

[frank-cole]

A possible statue of limitation after 10 years could be very plausible to that. That's what i meant according to a possible link between Helge B. and the case.

Quote: "Just one word, guilty!"



Just because of a "confession" of a guy who likes to brag around at a festival?


We'll see....

It’s certainly very interesting & also very vague. Whatever he told HB appears to have been corroborated (by the BKA) with multiple pieces of evidence. Again I may be overthinking, but HB, if I remember correctly said ‘I’ve seen enough’ . Perhaps there’s a small possibility that as well as the pictures of DM’s assault he may have shown a picture or voice note regarding MM. That said, I highly doubt OG have any of that as a part of their evidence, but it could still be a part of the testimony HB gave. L I guess there’s a small possibility that CB may have shown HB something to prove what he was saying was true. After all, he did show HB something regarding DM’s assault. HB sat on this information for 10 years, which IMO reflects the type of character he is. If he can hear or see information about child abduction & not talk to the police, then there’s no way of knowing what his limits are. I think HB’s knowledge & testimony is far more than a name drop & pointing in a certain direction.

 

[Lilly b]

Or there's nothing to link CB, he's not being charged so what link does he have to those on charge ?

If I new the answer, that would make me psychic

 

[RichardKimble]

The question, is if Helge B. contacted OG, or otherwise.

I assume, OG contacted the BKA in 2017 then.

If OG contacted Helge B, it must have had a particular reason. Something that connects HB to the case. Otherwise it leads to the question, why Helge B. wanted to put CB into focus ten years after MM's disappearance.

Would like to say that his help to bring CB into prison according to the DM rape doesn't seem to be a sufficient reason to remember of the MM confession at orgiva. And Helge B. could have told that to the german prosecutors as well. He must have been in germany as a witness in the DM trial.

So, why OG whilst being in greece? The whole timeline is hard to fathom IMO...

According to Sky in June 20, an informant contacted the BKA, is it HB ?

Later, he showed his companion a video of himself raping an elderly woman, an American tourist, in Portugal in 2005.

That prompted the informant to call German police to alert them to the suspect around the time of the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.


Madeleine McCann: Suspect is named Christian B - What we know about jailed German

 

[Anxala]

This article says that prosecutors have traced the phone CB used. The handset pings the mast at the same time as the SIM. IIRC one of the early documentaries on CB also featured an image of a mobile phone in an evidence bag.
Phone call by Christian B 'made from outside resort where she was snatched'

Stock image or not, the inference is the same. Copies of documents from the AB search in 2018 were pictured on German TV, showing that the classification of the investigation was murder (MORD) so there have been leaks.

^ It's not though. The BKA being in possession of the actual phone is not the same as the BKA having knowledge of the phone number CB owned/used at the time.

I think it's highly unlikely they have the actual phone, let alone the phone with compromising data intact.

 

[frank-cole]

Suspects in paedo ring linked to Maddie ‘kidnapper’ Christian B go on trial

Somebody made a good comment on another social media thread. They said that in the time between dec 2020 when HCW said they didn’t have enough evidence to charge & Oct 2021 when he said ‘we have that evidence now’, one
significant development was Germany’s bust of this paedophile network.
i think ‘we have that evidence now’, means they’ve corroborate that CB (not just his phone) was at near the crime scene that afternoon or evening. Certainly thought provoking though.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Somebody made a good comment on another social media thread. They said that in the time between dec 2020 when HCW said they didn’t have enough evidence to charge & Oct 2021 when he said ‘we have that evidence now’, one
significant development was Germany’s bust of this paedophile network.
i think ‘we have that evidence now’, means they’ve corroborate that CB (not just his phone) was at near the crime scene that afternoon or evening. Certainly thought provoking though.

Good point! Seems like that it has a lot of to do with content from this vile communities. Talking and sharing. Sharing what exactly....?

 

[frank-cole]

Good point! Seems like that it has a lot of to do with content from this vile communities. Talking and sharing. Sharing what exactly....?

I’ve given it a bit more thought. The timing of this announcement & comments that there could be link, do fit the timeline & could potentially have yielded evidence. But that’s a big IF. IMO they’ve got CB at the crime scene, if so it’ll be interesting to know (eventually) what evidence they may have found. Just my opinion. I personally think that things are about to kick off

 

[SuperdadV8]

I’ve given it a bit more thought. The timing of this announcement & comments that there could be link, do fit the timeline & could potentially have yielded evidence. But that’s a big IF. IMO they’ve got CB at the crime scene, if so it’ll be interesting to know (eventually) what evidence they may have found. Just my opinion. I personally think that things are about to kick off

After almost 5 years without any charge....i hope you're right Frank!

But it's obvious, that many other things have kicked off. So, we'll see....

 

[frank-cole]

After almost 5 years without any charge....i hope you're right Frank!

But it's obvious, that many other things have kicked off. So, we'll see....

Agreed 5 years & no charge is certainly a lengthy investigation! That said, they’ve continued to fund it, so they must believe they can get it to court.
Odd as it sounds, I think the BKA have solved the case, but there’s a difference between that & getting a conviction. I’m surprised nothing has happened for any of the charges yet

 

[Davieson]

Perhaps it's a combination of media hype and wishful thinking.

 

[RichardKimble]

Perhaps it's a combination of media hype and wishful thinking.

Surfeit of both , perchance .

 

[tedtink]

DBM
Oops - wrong thread.

 

[Dlk79]

Some might be interested to know that the MM case is not the only murder charge without a body that the Braunschweig Prosecutor's office are currently pursuing.

In the case of Karsten M., who has been missing since April, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office has brought charges against a 50-year-old federal police officer. He is said to have murdered his best friend insidiously.

According to the public prosecutor's office, the motive for the crime was the accused's desire to officially live with Karsten M.'s wife. Authorities spokesman Christian Wolters said that bloody traces of grinding were found on the victim's property in Groß Döhren in the municipality of Liebenburg (Goslar district) and at the alleged crime scene. Investigators assume that the suspect lured his victim out of the house and then probably attacked him with a crossbow. Karsten M. had to take an anticoagulant, which led to a lot of blood loss. The investigators also found traces of blood in the victim's car, which they were able to make visible again using chemical agents. The car was later discovered at the Expo site in Hanover. A body has not yet been found.

The prosecution is sure of their accusation, even without a body. "When we file charges, we always assume a conviction, otherwise we should not file charges," Wolters said. It is not entirely unusual to charge a murder without a body. "It is and remains a circumstantial process, but we believe that we can prove it."

Besten Freund getötet? Anklage gegen Bundespolizisten


The trial is currently ongoing and all of the Prosecution evidence is circumstantial in nature. Much like the MM case, the body of the victim has still not been found and there are no eye-witnesses to the crime.

The main evidence in the prosecution case is as follows-

- The victim's kitchen showed signs of an unplanned departure. Uneaten toast, the victim's phone and his bag remained, yet the victim's car had gone.
- A substantial amount of blood was found in the garden of the victim's home along with drag marks.
- Extensive traces of the victim's blood was found in the victim's car which turned up miles away from his home.
- The suspect had been having an affair with the victim's wife for several years but the wife was unwilling to leave her husband.
- The victim's family had recently found out about the affair.
- The suspect purchased various items from hardware stores in the weeks leading up to the crime including paving slabs, wire mesh and concrete footings. None of which were ever found. (The Prosecutor's assumption being the materials were used to conceal the victim's body).
- A Fiat 500 car was spotted outside the victims home by several witnesses on the morning of his disappearance. One witness also saw a man (that was not the victim) stood next to the car shortly before the time of the disappearance.
- After the suspect's car had left that morning, the Fiat 500 remained until some time later that day. It was gone by 1pm.
- Rental records show the suspect rented a Fiat 500 car matching the description during the time frame of the crime.
- Remnants of a crossbow arrow were located at the alleged crime scene (victim's garden).
- A corresponding crowbow was purchased online using the suspect's ID in the weeks beforehand.
- The crossbow purchase was debited from the suspect's PayPal account.
- A postman confirms delivering the crossbow to the supect's home address.
- Several weeks later, the day after the victim's car was found the suspect lodged a PayPal dispute that someone else had bought the crossbow under his name and he never received it. The Prosecutor alleges this was a means of covering up posession of the crossbow after realising an arrow was missing.
- A taxi driver collected a man that morning from the location of where the victim's car was found and took him to a train station. The taxi driver said the man was wearing a covid mask and although not certain, states the man matched the suspect's appearance.


Here's an update on the trial itself which is still ongoing. More details of the case can be found on the same website but I thought this particular article was especially interesting as it outlines many of the points the defence are trying to argue.

Manczak-Prozess: Hat ein Zeuge den Toten gesehen?


There are several interesting parallels with this case and the CB/MM case. The Prosecutors launched a public TV appeal for witnesses after identifying their suspect. Similarly, they appealed for details relating to certain vehicles and any sightings of their suspect. The suspect has remained silent throughout, refusing to respond to any police questions. All of the evidence against the suspect is circumstantial. The Prosecutors only released certain details to the public "so as not to jeopardise the investigation" - that's a direct HCW quote about this investigation and exactly what he also said about the CB case.

The defence has argued several points that, while predictable, the Prosecutors can expect similar points to be raised should the MM case go to trial. The suspect claims someone stole his identity to order the crossbow and that he was not in possession of it. CB's defence may similarly want to argue the phone was not in his posession on the 3rd. The defence has called witnesses who believe they may have seen the victim (or the victim's car) after the time the Prosecutors allege the victim to have been murdered. Again, FF would likley point to the many alleged sightings of MM. The defence argue that the Prosecutors did not adequately investigate other possibilities such as the victim going into hiding or having committed suicide. I think we can guess at what alternative explanations FF might propose for MM's disappearance.

What is intriguing is that the circumstantial evidence in this case must be quite different to that in the CB case. While each of the circumstantial points are not damning on their own, it is the culmination of them which is compelling. The pieces of the puzzle as HCW puts it. The motive is established via the conflict of the affair. The evidence of death is supported by the vast amount of victims blood, drag marks and a potential murder weapon. Placing the suspect at the crime scene is supported by the sighting of the suspect's hire car. Placing the suspect at the site of the victims disposed car is supported by the taxi driver. On the face of it, the BKA would not appear to have that sort of evidence against CB. So it will be interesting to see what evidence they do have to bridge these gaps in a similarly compelling manner, given that HCW states they do "now" have enough evidence to charge him.

What is also interesting is that this trial was meant to have finished quite some time ago. It was initially delayed after one of the judges fell ill just before the trial was due to commence in November, the trial was scheduled for 11 days. It was then meant to conclude in February but has since been prolonged after further witnesses came forward. The latest is that it might conclude some time in April or May. I don't know whether these developments have anything to do with any delays to charges against CB, but it's possible. The Prosecutors have the luxury of time with CB whereas they didn't in this case. The period of pre-trial detention was up, which may have resulted in a need to focus their efforts away from CB for the time being. Whatever the case, the result of this trial will be interesting to see and a potential benchmark for evidence threshold in any future murder trials where there is no body.

 

[mrjitty]

Evidence seems overwhelming to me!

A number of us are following the Morphew no body trial where the evidence is much less

 

[Davieson]

Some might be interested to know that the MM case is not the only murder charge without a body that the Braunschweig Prosecutor's office are currently pursuing.

In the case of Karsten M., who has been missing since April, the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office has brought charges against a 50-year-old federal police officer. He is said to have murdered his best friend insidiously.

According to the public prosecutor's office, the motive for the crime was the accused's desire to officially live with Karsten M.'s wife. Authorities spokesman Christian Wolters said that bloody traces of grinding were found on the victim's property in Groß Döhren in the municipality of Liebenburg (Goslar district) and at the alleged crime scene. Investigators assume that the suspect lured his victim out of the house and then probably attacked him with a crossbow. Karsten M. had to take an anticoagulant, which led to a lot of blood loss. The investigators also found traces of blood in the victim's car, which they were able to make visible again using chemical agents. The car was later discovered at the Expo site in Hanover. A body has not yet been found.

The prosecution is sure of their accusation, even without a body. "When we file charges, we always assume a conviction, otherwise we should not file charges," Wolters said. It is not entirely unusual to charge a murder without a body. "It is and remains a circumstantial process, but we believe that we can prove it."

Besten Freund getötet? Anklage gegen Bundespolizisten


The trial is currently ongoing and all of the Prosecution evidence is circumstantial in nature. Much like the MM case, the body of the victim has still not been found and there are no eye-witnesses to the crime.

The main evidence in the prosecution case is as follows-

- The victim's kitchen showed signs of an unplanned departure. Uneaten toast, the victim's phone and his bag remained, yet the victim's car had gone.
- A substantial amount of blood was found in the garden of the victim's home along with drag marks.
- Extensive traces of the victim's blood was found in the victim's car which turned up miles away from his home.
- The suspect had been having an affair with the victim's wife for several years but the wife was unwilling to leave her husband.
- The victim's family had recently found out about the affair.
- The suspect purchased various items from hardware stores in the weeks leading up to the crime including paving slabs, wire mesh and concrete footings. None of which were ever found. (The Prosecutor's assumption being the materials were used to conceal the victim's body).
- A Fiat 500 car was spotted outside the victims home by several witnesses on the morning of his disappearance. One witness also saw a man (that was not the victim) stood next to the car shortly before the time of the disappearance.
- After the suspect's car had left that morning, the Fiat 500 remained until some time later that day. It was gone by 1pm.
- Rental records show the suspect rented a Fiat 500 car matching the description during the time frame of the crime.
- Remnants of a crossbow arrow were located at the alleged crime scene (victim's garden).
- A corresponding crowbow was purchased online using the suspect's ID in the weeks beforehand.
- The crossbow purchase was debited from the suspect's PayPal account.
- A postman confirms delivering the crossbow to the supect's home address.
- Several weeks later, the day after the victim's car was found the suspect lodged a PayPal dispute that someone else had bought the crossbow under his name and he never received it. The Prosecutor alleges this was a means of covering up posession of the crossbow after realising an arrow was missing.
- A taxi driver collected a man that morning from the location of where the victim's car was found and took him to a train station. The taxi driver said the man was wearing a covid mask and although not certain, states the man matched the suspect's appearance.


Here's an update on the trial itself which is still ongoing. More details of the case can be found on the same website but I thought this particular article was especially interesting as it outlines many of the points the defence are trying to argue.

Manczak-Prozess: Hat ein Zeuge den Toten gesehen?


There are several interesting parallels with this case and the CB/MM case. The Prosecutors launched a public TV appeal for witnesses after identifying their suspect. Similarly, they appealed for details relating to certain vehicles and any sightings of their suspect. The suspect has remained silent throughout, refusing to respond to any police questions. All of the evidence against the suspect is circumstantial. The Prosecutors only released certain details to the public "so as not to jeopardise the investigation" - that's a direct HCW quote about this investigation and exactly what he also said about the CB case.

The defence has argued several points that, while predictable, the Prosecutors can expect similar points to be raised should the MM case go to trial. The suspect claims someone stole his identity to order the crossbow and that he was not in possession of it. CB's defence may similarly want to argue the phone was not in his posession on the 3rd. The defence has called witnesses who believe they may have seen the victim (or the victim's car) after the time the Prosecutors allege the victim to have been murdered. Again, FF would likley point to the many alleged sightings of MM. The defence argue that the Prosecutors did not adequately investigate other possibilities such as the victim going into hiding or having committed suicide. I think we can guess at what alternative explanations FF might propose for MM's disappearance.

What is intriguing is that the circumstantial evidence in this case must be quite different to that in the CB case. While each of the circumstantial points are not damning on their own, it is the culmination of them which is compelling. The pieces of the puzzle as HCW puts it. The motive is established via the conflict of the affair. The evidence of death is supported by the vast amount of victims blood, drag marks and a potential murder weapon. Placing the suspect at the crime scene is supported by the sighting of the suspect's hire car. Placing the suspect at the site of the victims disposed car is supported by the taxi driver. On the face of it, the BKA would not appear to have that sort of evidence against CB. So it will be interesting to see what evidence they do have to bridge these gaps in a similarly compelling manner, given that HCW states they do "now" have enough evidence to charge him.

What is also interesting is that this trial was meant to have finished quite some time ago. It was initially delayed after one of the judges fell ill just before the trial was due to commence in November, the trial was scheduled for 11 days. It was then meant to conclude in February but has since been prolonged after further witnesses came forward. The latest is that it might conclude some time in April or May. I don't know whether these developments have anything to do with any delays to charges against CB, but it's possible. The Prosecutors have the luxury of time with CB whereas they didn't in this case. The period of pre-trial detention was up, which may have resulted in a need to focus their efforts away from CB for the time being. Whatever the case, the result of this trial will be interesting to see and a potential benchmark for evidence threshold in any future murder trials where there is no body.

At least in this case there does seem to be an established link between victim and accused.

 

[Tekno]

Brilliant analysis, Dlk!

 

[Hygge]

Think it’s this murder case from November, postponed to April and March?