Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[Denis R Tandib]

There was no official announcement of the discovery of supposed items like the bra , HCW won't announce either way .imo

I agree with you, there won’t be an update now. I think the next steps will be a charge or a wind- down.

 

[RichardKimble]

Well said. MM is worth the funding.
The April Jones investigation cost £9 million, yet i’ve never seen any comments (on SM) scrutinising the amount spent &/or having an issue with it.
IMO, for some, in reality their frustration with grange has absolutely nothing to do with how much has been spent, it is all to do with the direction the investigation is going in.

What part do you consider Grange have had in searching for Madeleine or her remains since handing CBs name to the BKA in 2017?

 

[Consider Dudley]

I don’t think you’ve got that right. IIRC, the initial investigation went to 2009 and then OG started in 2011.

Nevertheless, funding is a practical consideration. Endless funding for missing children either takes resources away from investigations into rape and murder or increases taxes.

How much are you prepared to pay for the additional required LE expense?

No, the initial investigation was archived in 2008, after around a year. Obiously the Portuguese do things right when investigating missing children cases by limiting time, resources and money spent trying to find them.

 

[frank-cole]

What part do you consider Grange have had in searching for Madeleine or her remains since handing CBs name to the BKA in 2017?

IMO it’s irrelevant. The type of investigation will vary dependant on the demographics & nature of the crime.

 

[mrjitty]

Personally I don't find the issue of relative funding of much relevance. The team was clearly heavily resourced when it went public in 2020 and has brought 5 charges.

I am more wondering how long BKA will continue to invest heavy resources. Obviously a tip can come at any time and change things, but personally I wonder (apart from the latest search which comes from a tip) what they can still really be working on in terms of investigative leads.

I've been seeing the same on the morphew case, In reality there is no more investigation that can do when they need the body, but don't know exactly where to look. They need a break. It hasn't been said, but it is reasonably clear that there is no longer much of an active focus on it.

 

[Mex]

I’m part of the public and I would like an explanation - I’m not on my own.

You are persistent in your claims that the original Portuguese investigation was substandard yet it is the only one that carried out any type of investigative work on the McCanns or RM. How can you be certain they are innocent? It is a contentious issue. IMO, there has been less evidence provided publicly to support CB being the culprit than was provided to support the suspicions of the parents.

Long before CB became an issue in the public domain I read the
a) Policia Judiciaria 57-page 'Final Report' summary 2008
b) the Public Prosecutor's Archiving Dispatch 2008
Both of which are respected public institutions in Portugal and both of whom exonerated K and GM

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_Report_English_Translation.pdf

P.J. POLICE FILES: LEGAL SUMMARY

In 2013 MM's case files were reopened by the PJ to investigate stranger abduction. Since then they have remained open.
In 2022 CB was constituted arguido in MM's disappearance on the basis of suspicion of "strong indications" of the practice of a crime

Madeleine McCann: Christian Brueckner declared formal suspect

Madeleine McCann has been missing for nearly 15 years after she disappeared, aged three, in Portugal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

Personally I don't find the issue of relative funding of much relevance. The team was clearly heavily resourced when it went public in 2020 and has brought 5 charges.

I am more wondering how long BKA will continue to invest heavy resources. Obviously a tip can come at any time and change things, but personally I wonder (apart from the latest search which comes from a tip) what they can still really be working on in terms of investigative leads.

I've been seeing the same on the morphew case, In reality there is no more investigation that can do when they need the body, but don't know exactly where to look. They need a break. It hasn't been said, but it is reasonably clear that there is no longer much of an active focus on it.

Perhaps, like OG, their manpower has been reduced to next to nothing and staff have been redeployed into more fruitful investigations.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Long before CB became an issue in the public domain I read the
a) Policia Judiciaria 57-page 'Final Report' summary 2008
b) the Public Prosecutor's Archiving Dispatch 2008
Both of which are respected public institutions in Portugal and both of whom exonerated K and GM

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_Report_English_Translation.pdf

P.J. POLICE FILES: LEGAL SUMMARY

In 2013 MM's case files were reopened by the PJ to investigate stranger abduction. Since then they have remained open.
In 2022 CB was constituted arguido in MM's disappearance on the basis of suspicion of "strong indications" of the practice of a crime

Madeleine McCann: Christian Brueckner declared formal suspect

Madeleine McCann has been missing for nearly 15 years after she disappeared, aged three, in Portugal.

www.bbc.co.uk

There are many contrary theories that IMO make reasonable claims. Until CB or someone else is convicted BARD, there are other people who are not beyond suspicion, particularly those from the original case file. All MO.

 

[Mex]

I don’t think you’ve got that right. IIRC, the initial investigation went to 2009 and then OG started in 2011.

Nevertheless, funding is a practical consideration. Endless funding for missing children either takes resources away from investigations into rape and murder or increases taxes.

How much are you prepared to pay for the additional required LE expense?

The Portuguese Attorney General issued the MM Case Archiving report 21st July 2008.

A Portuguese police investigation which ran until July 2008, and a continuing high-profile international campaign run by her parents Kate and Gerry, have failed to locate her.
Scotland Yard announced it was launching an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in July 2013 - after spending two years reviewing the case.
On 24 October 2013 it was announced that the Portuguese police had reopened their inquiry into the disappearance, citing "new lines of inquiry". The Scotland Yard inquiry will run alongside the Portuguese investigation.

Madeleine McCann inquiry timeline

Details and timeline of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in 2007.

www.bbc.co.uk

A lot of groundwork has gone into working on the MM case with a lot of expertise put into it.

The result has led to CB's door and this time I don't think anyone will be going away and ignoring him.

​

 

[Okapi]

Genuine question to the floor. Why is recovery of the body (seemingly) automatically the deal-breaker?

Aside from proving that MM is deceased obviously. (And I’m not sure if after all these years that the nature and cause of death could be ascertained, unless it was an obvious accident as per the wandering theory).

How will the remains per se support the Prosecution? I’m just wondering what would happen if they find remains but are unable to establish any perpetrator forensics? Thinking of the Peggy K (Germany) case.

There is no guarantee of finding forensics to link a perpetrator. And there is opinion expressed both on WS and MSM that LE ‘need to find the body.’ it makes me wonder if the body itself (regardless of perpetrator forensics) stands alone to support the Prosecution’s case. And if so, then how? It may prove or link to intel gleaned from verbal testimony or an inconclusive photographic record? How would the body minus dna of the perpetrator serve the prosecution? I may be chasing my own tail (apologies for canine allusions) and posting a daft question!

Thoughts?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Genuine question to the floor. Why is recovery of the body (seemingly) automatically the deal-breaker?

Aside from proving that MM is deceased obviously. (And I’m not sure if after all these years that the nature and cause of death could be ascertained, unless it was an obvious accident as per the wandering theory).

How will the remains per se support the Prosecution? I’m just wondering what would happen if they find remains but are unable to establish any perpetrator forensics? Thinking of the Peggy K (Germany) case.

There is no guarantee of finding forensics to link a perpetrator. And there is opinion expressed both on WS and MSM that LE ‘need to find the body.’ it makes me wonder if the body itself (regardless of perpetrator forensics) stands alone to support the Prosecution’s case. And if so, then how? It may prove or link to intel gleaned from verbal testimony or an inconclusive photographic record? How would the body minus dna of the perpetrator serve the prosecution? I may be chasing my own tail (apologies for canine allusions) and posting a daft question!

Thoughts?

How can death be proven BARD without a body?

There are thousands of potential sightings which give doubt that MM is dead.

The location and other clues relating to the cause of death could corroborate circumstantial evidence.

Without the body, IMO, there is doubt MM is dead, let alone murdered.

 

[Mex]

There are many contrary theories that IMO make reasonable claims. Until CB or someone else is convicted BARD, there are other people who are not beyond suspicion, particularly those from the original case file. All MO.

That is your opinion.

In the opinion of international police forces who have been investigating the case for years there is only one suspect who is CB.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The Portuguese Attorney General issued the MM Case Archiving report 21st July 2008.

A Portuguese police investigation which ran until July 2008, and a continuing high-profile international campaign run by her parents Kate and Gerry, have failed to locate her.
Scotland Yard announced it was launching an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in July 2013 - after spending two years reviewing the case.
On 24 October 2013 it was announced that the Portuguese police had reopened their inquiry into the disappearance, citing "new lines of inquiry". The Scotland Yard inquiry will run alongside the Portuguese investigation.

Madeleine McCann inquiry timeline

Details and timeline of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in 2007.

www.bbc.co.uk

A lot of groundwork has gone into working on the MM case with a lot of expertise put into it.

The result has led to CB's door and this time I don't think anyone will be going away and ignoring him.

​

The statement from HB led to CB's door, not investigative work.

 

[Davieson]

Genuine question to the floor. Why is recovery of the body (seemingly) automatically the deal-breaker?

Aside from proving that MM is deceased obviously. (And I’m not sure if after all these years that the nature and cause of death could be ascertained, unless it was an obvious accident as per the wandering theory).

How will the remains per se support the Prosecution? I’m just wondering what would happen if they find remains but are unable to establish any perpetrator forensics? Thinking of the Peggy K (Germany) case.

There is no guarantee of finding forensics to link a perpetrator. And there is opinion expressed both on WS and MSM that LE ‘need to find the body.’ it makes me wonder if the body itself (regardless of perpetrator forensics) stands alone to support the Prosecution’s case. And if so, then how? It may prove or link to intel gleaned from verbal testimony or an inconclusive photographic record? How would the body minus dna of the perpetrator serve the prosecution? I may be chasing my own tail (apologies for canine allusions) and posting a daft question!

Thoughts?

Further to that, what if a body was found but DNA not belonging to CB was found on it. That would send the investigation off in another direction. Would CB still be the prime suspect ?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That is your opinion.

In the opinion of international police forces who have been investigating the case for years there is only one suspect who is CB.

Goodness me, I hope they have more than an opinion.

At the moment CB is the only suspect. There have been others, who is to say he' will be the last?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Further to that, what if a body was found but DNA not belonging to CB was found on it. That would send the investigation off in another direction. Would CB still be the prime suspect ?

I don't hold much hope for that, but how could he be?

 

[Davieson]

I don't hold much hope for that, but how could he be?

Nor do I as I doubt a body will be found for useful DNA to be detected. It was just a thought outside the usual box

 

[Consider Dudley]

Goodness me, I hope they have more than an opinion.

At the moment CB is the only suspect. There have been others, who is to say he' will be the last?

The police have a professional opinion based on all the evidence in their possession, some of which is undoubtedly not in the public domain. What is your opinion based on?

 

[Davieson]

The police have a professional opinion based on all the evidence in their possession, some of which is undoubtedly not in the public domain. What is your opinion based on?

A judge will need more than opinion, however professional it might be.

 

[Lyall0814]

Genuine question to the floor. Why is recovery of the body (seemingly) automatically the deal-breaker?

Aside from proving that MM is deceased obviously. (And I’m not sure if after all these years that the nature and cause of death could be ascertained, unless it was an obvious accident as per the wandering theory).

How will the remains per se support the Prosecution? I’m just wondering what would happen if they find remains but are unable to establish any perpetrator forensics? Thinking of the Peggy K (Germany) case.

There is no guarantee of finding forensics to link a perpetrator. And there is opinion expressed both on WS and MSM that LE ‘need to find the body.’ it makes me wonder if the body itself (regardless of perpetrator forensics) stands alone to support the Prosecution’s case. And if so, then how? It may prove or link to intel gleaned from verbal testimony or an inconclusive photographic record? How would the body minus dna of the perpetrator serve the prosecution? I may be chasing my own tail (apologies for canine allusions) and posting a daft question!

Thoughts?

It's an excellent question, but maybe one only pathologists could answer well? (they're clever folks)