Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Denis R Tandib]

Behaviour Panel analysing HB interview .. might be interesting to some on here .

I think it’s really interesting.

The statement where he is talking to CB towards the end is key IMO.

When this all comes out, I think we will find that HB’s statement includes that he has seen videos of CB committing child abuse, possibly including footage of MM.

I think the whole investigation is built on it and that there is little, if any physical evidence - certainly nothing connected to MM - no photos, no video, nothing.

 

[Okapi]

I think it’s really interesting.

The statement where he is talking to CB towards the end is key IMO.

When this all comes out, I think we will find that HB’s statement includes that he has seen videos of CB committing child abuse, possibly including footage of MM.

I think the whole investigation is built on it and that there is little, if any physical evidence - certainly nothing connected to MM - no photos, no video, nothing.

TBH, I’ve only had time yet to watch half the clip (thanks Trivento), but the behavioural analysis was interesting (although I did lol at the gold watch interpretation).

I agreed with the opinion of the analysts that HB’s body language indicated flashes of sincerity but also a controlled reveal, that he seemed to be holding something back. Fascinating how eye movement is apparently extremely difficult to school if you are being deceitful.

I thought the same as you Denis, that HB knows more than he’s publicly talking about. Either because as you suggest he is aware of footage (whether embargoed or not) or because he was involved in something on the periphery at the time that he is being careful not to implicate himself in. Either way, cagey. My own speculation.

 

[RichardKimble]

Might as well bring this in as well.

 

[RichardKimble]

I think it’s really interesting.

The statement where he is talking to CB towards the end is key IMO.

When this all comes out, I think we will find that HB’s statement includes that he has seen videos of CB committing child abuse, possibly including footage of MM.

I think the whole investigation is built on it and that there is little, if any physical evidence - certainly nothing connected to MM - no photos, no video, nothing.

The gist of it is that the BKA need evidence to back up what HB alleges something that connects CB to Madeleine.But HB never came outright with he had seen Madeleine and CB on tape, if it existed, Wolters in 2020 confirms this with if we had CB and Madeleine together we wouldn't need to appeal , it boils down to, do the BKA believe a convicted people smuggler or CB a convicted rapist who denies it, one or both maybe lying.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

TBH, I’ve only had time yet to watch half the clip (thanks Trivento), but the behavioural analysis was interesting (although I did lol at the gold watch interpretation).

I agreed with the opinion of the analysts that HB’s body language indicated flashes of sincerity but also a controlled reveal, that he seemed to be holding something back. Fascinating how eye movement is apparently extremely difficult to school if you are being deceitful.

I thought the same as you Denis, that HB knows more than he’s publicly talking about. Either because as you suggest he is aware of footage (whether embargoed or not) or because he was involved in something on the periphery at the time that he is being careful not to implicate himself in. Either way, cagey. My own speculation.

The eye movement was popularised by NLP where it’s called eye accessing cues. Essentially, it suggests that in addition to experiencing the physical world through your senses, you experience thoughts in the same way and the sense you are using can be understood by the direction you look.

For example, looking up is a sign you are thinking in pictures - up left is typically visual recall and up right is visual creation.

Looking on the horizontal plane is auditory or hearing and left is recall right is creation. You see this often when people are mentally rehearsing speeches or trying to remember songs.

Down right is feelings, both emotions and physical feeling - try thinking about how wet sand feels between your toes and see where your eyes go.

Down left is self talk, when you are having a conversation with yourself.

Some people think the whole NLP is mumbo jumbo but I think there is something to it, especially the work of Milton Erickson and Virginia Satir.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The gist of it is that the BKA need evidence to back up what HB alleges something that connects CB to Madeleine.But HB never came outright with he had seen Madeleine and CB on tape, if it existed, Wolters in 2020 confirms this with if we had CB and Madeleine together we wouldn't need to appeal , it boils down to, do the BKA believe a convicted people smuggler or CB a convicted rapist who denies it, one or both maybe lying.

Actions speak louder than words so they believe HB. I imagine he has a very compelling piece of information i.e. something only the abductor could know.

The problem is, he has had a decade to think it over, including a lengthy stint in prison - this is why the 2008 reporting to SY is an important part of his story. It could just be a complete embellishment of the rape videos from HB based on some BS from CB at Orgiva - voila, solved the MM case.

The more important question is what a judge will believe - IMO, unlikely he will take the word of HB without strong corroborating evidence which isn’t coming.

The longer this goes along, the less convinced I am that CB had anything to do with MM.

 

[Okapi]

The eye movement was popularised by NLP where it’s called eye accessing cues. Essentially, it suggests that in addition to experiencing the physical world through your senses, you experience thoughts in the same way and the sense you are using can be understood by the direction you look.

For example, looking up is a sign you are thinking in pictures - up left is typically visual recall and up right is visual creation.

Looking on the horizontal plane is auditory or hearing and left is recall right is creation. You see this often when people are mentally rehearsing speeches or trying to remember songs.

Down right is feelings, both emotions and physical feeling - try thinking about how wet sand feels between your toes and see where your eyes go.

Down left is self talk, when you are having a conversation with yourself.

Some people think the whole NLP is mumbo jumbo but I think there is something to it, especially the work of Milton Erickson and Virginia Satir.

That’s really interesting, thank you I won’t elaborate further as I keep going off topic!

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Again and again, unless HCW is bluffing blatantly he told to SF in Sexta às 9, HB and MS are not central pieces in MM investigation.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Since evidence isn't coming some people here and there are less convinced that CB had anything to do with MM...someone did it, if not CB, would have now been any other totally "unknown" abductor/paedophile? What a twist...How would be seen then all the investigation work...I definitely do not believe but...as long as "roulette" is possible...

 

[Consider Dudley]

Actions speak louder than words so they believe HB. I imagine he has a very compelling piece of information i.e. something only the abductor could know.

The problem is, he has had a decade to think it over, including a lengthy stint in prison - this is why the 2008 reporting to SY is an important part of his story. It could just be a complete embellishment of the rape videos from HB based on some BS from CB at Orgiva - voila, solved the MM case.

The more important question is what a judge will believe - IMO, unlikely he will take the word of HB without strong corroborating evidence which isn’t coming.

The longer this goes along, the less convinced I am that CB had anything to do with MM.

IMO, the length of time taken to build a case against someone is not necessarily any indicator wrt to their innocence or guilt. Some suspects are charged shortly after a crime has been committed who are found subsequently to be innocent of all charges, whilst some perpetrators are only charged many years after an investigation into them has begun. Time taken to bring charges should not be relied upon as any sort of measure IMO.

 

[RichardKimble]

Again and again, unless HCW is bluffing blatantly he told to SF in Sexta às 9, HB and MS are not central pieces in MM investigation.

Some reports say he is/was.

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"​

As a key witness in the case, Helge B. has been under protection for years by Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA).

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"

The man who led authorities probing the 2007 abduction of British toddler Madeleine McCann to a German national has spoken for the first time.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[mrjitty]

Love the comedy pronunciation of Helge

 

[RichardKimble]

When you actually look at what HB says, it's not alot.
He says CB said she never screamed, he then goes onto say it's his own theory that CB broke/entered into 5a and took the girl, all in all much ado about nothing .The tapes he mentioned it's not clear to what they contained.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

The thing with HB is he said CB told him that he did

Some reports say he is/was.

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"​

As a key witness in the case, Helge B. has been under protection for years by Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA).

Key witness in Madeleine McCann case reveals chilling discussion with prime suspect: "She didn't even scream"

The man who led authorities probing the 2007 abduction of British toddler Madeleine McCann to a German national has spoken for the first time.

www.cbsnews.com

Oh...so it seems media may be reliable on what it publicizes about HB but maybe less on what is reported about CB...I see...

 

[RichardKimble]

Oh...so it seems media may be reliable on what it publicizes about HB but maybe less on what is reported about CB...I see...

I did say some reports, there's been an awful lot of flotsam and jetsam over the years in the press very little has been accurate imo.The only time to sit up and listen is when HCW says they are to charge CB and SY or the McCanns confirm that Madeleine is dead, none of that seems likely at the moment imo.

 

[mrjitty]

One thing I take from this, is on any view, if he is truthful that he contacted Scotland Yard in '08, then the Met have had a shocker. They were handed the identity of the abductor on a platter and for some reason nothing happened?

 

[mrjitty]

Again and again, unless HCW is bluffing blatantly he told to SF in Sexta às 9, HB and MS are not central pieces in MM investigation.

My feeling is that is accurate.

From other cases I've followed this witness is likely to be an investigative lead more than critical court evidence. You would really want the confession on a wire. Even if the Judge believes the witness, it is hard to establish what it really proves, as we are relying on the witness intepretation and recall of what was said, which is open to multiple interpretations.

 

[RichardKimble]

One thing I take from this, is on any view, if he is truthful that he contacted Scotland Yard in '08, then the Met have had a shocker. They were handed the identity of the abductor on a platter and for some reason nothing happened?

Or look at it another way, attempted to hand CB over, the press have done an hatchet job on CB, yet little is known of the past about convicted people smuggler HB, what's his history and gripe with CB.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

When you actually look at what HB says, it's not alot.
He says CB said she never screamed, he then goes onto say it's his own theory that CB broke/entered into 5a and took the girl, all in all much ado about nothing .The tapes he mentioned it's not clear to what they contained.

My opinion is that he is part of the prosecution’s media campaign. Told what things he could say and what he couldn’t. Just another tactic from HCW to put pressure on the defence.

It’s not going to work IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

My opinion is that he is part of the prosecution’s media campaign. Told what things he could say and what he couldn’t. Just another tactic from HCW to put pressure on the defence.

It’s not going to work IMO.

It's bild. More likely the simply paid him.