Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #6

[Kiranerys]

IMO LE has video/pic evidence of MM that ties her to CB - how would he get pics if it was P Ring? I can't believe a large P Ring would upload pics of MM for any low life to access, that would be far too risky.

I dont know,the story from the informant appears to be that CB knows what happened to her and he disposed of the body and we could take that two different ways, that he literally knows what happened because he disposed of the body( and could have taken photos to support the and as insurance of some sort) or more likely that he knows what happened because he killed her and disposed of her body.
Either way could work,and again if he has been involved in a ring since he was a teen he would t just be some loser who had access to the images, and from what I have read of these rings they not only have thousands upon thousands of images and videos of child abuse for members to view but they also produce catalogue of children they have available, and ultimately if you know the right people or can pay the right price you can get access,that's the whole point of these rings in the first place and why police sometimes manage to infiltrate them undercover.
I honestly have no clue which if any scenario happened,I sway towards CB took her,used her then killed her but I am open to the other possibilities,if WS has taught me anything it is that anything is possible

 

[tedtink]

Yes they are PIGS! They stretch stories and add false quotes by "un named sources" and influence public perception for sure.
This has been a feature from the start as you know and now another LE is involved that adds more meat to the broth.

But IMO there's no smoke without fire.

 

[Bit of hope]

Yes they are PIGS! They stretch stories and add false quotes by "un named sources" and influence public perception for sure.
This has been a feature from the start as you know and now another LE is involved that adds more meat to the broth.

But IMO there's no smoke without fire.

I agree with that.....we have this saying..don't know where youre from...but you know it...

 

[Ardoch]

I'm not discounting the car could have been further away, but I'm curious about why you and Ardoch think it makes more sense because it would look less odd?

It makes the assumption that he is going to be seen and given that he could bump into any of the 9 in the group at any point by walking off with her (or others in the Ocean Club who knew MM), looking odd or not, that's a huge risk. To me, it makes most sense to eliminate as much as possible any chance of being seen. And if he was going to be seen, putting a sleeping child into a car is not particularly odd I don't think.

One scenario;
Planned.
Knew children were on their own and timed when they were being checked however a look-out to double check.
One abductor left by the front door in the alley and walked carrying M down R. Dr. Francisco.....road a short way to one of the small car park areas which are directly off the road for easier get away.
(looking at google maps for present day - don't know if Club Ocean was less built up in 2007 would have made it easier)

Second scenario;
Forget last part of first scenario - I've just checked a blog with pics of the covered alleyway leading from M's apartment to the apartment's car park and there's a lot of cover.....but danger of being <edited> caught.
aaargh!!

 

[Kikixxxx]

I dont know,the story from the informant appears to be that CB knows what happened to her and he disposed of the body and we could take that two different ways, that he literally knows what happened because he disposed of the body( and could have taken photos to support the and as insurance of some sort) or more likely that he knows what happened because he killed her and disposed of her body.
Either way could work,and again if he has been involved in a ring since he was a teen he would t just be some loser who had access to the images, and from what I have read of these rings they not only have thousands upon thousands of images and videos of child abuse for members to view but they also produce catalogue of children they have available, and ultimately if you know the right people or can pay the right price you can get access,that's the whole point of these rings in the first place and why police sometimes manage to infiltrate them undercover.
I honestly have no clue which if any scenario happened,I away towards CB took her,used her then killed her but I am open to the other possibilities,if WS has taught me anything it is that anything is possible

That’s what I’m leaning too aswell, that he had probably been spying on the family in the days previously, possibly spotted Madeline at the beach and followed them to see where they were staying one day unnoticed. Considering what we heard from the Irish girl (assuming that was of course CB) but he had been in her apartment in the days before too, she noticed things had moved and money had been taken etc but at the time wrote it off as the cleaners. It seemed like He'd figured out a way to get in before hand, to get a feel for her apartment so everything was ‘to plan’ on the actual night.

I personally think he took Madeline, abused her (possibly videoed it or took pics) and disposed of her body relatively soon after. I also don’t think it’s likely he’d be part a peado ring just due to the fact he was a liability. He had many previous convictions, he was well known to police and had spent time in prison on multiple occasions for sex offences against children. A high operating peado ring would cut him loose at that point I’d of thought, or at least distance themselves from him, but then again i have no idea how they all work!

 

[tedtink]

One scenario;
Planned. I agree
Knew children were on their own (from having stalked days before)(the phone call was made at 7.32 to check on the whereabouts of perp 2 and to confirm plan) and timed when they were being checked however a look-out to double check.
One abductor left by the front door in the alley and walked carrying M down R. Dr. Francisco.....road a short way to one of the small car park areas which are directly off the road for easier get away. (Tanner sighting was a perp)
(looking at google maps for present day - don't know if Club Ocean was less built up in 2007 would have made it easier)

Second scenario;
Forget last part of first scenario - I've just checked a blog with pics of the covered alleyway leading from M's apartment to the apartment's car park and there's a lot of cover.....but danger of being seen.
aaargh!!

I think that was a risk they were willing to take imo - it paid off


Mine added in blue.

 

[LittleRose]

That’s what I’m leaning too aswell, that he had probably been spying on the family in the days previously, possibly spotted Madeline at the beach and followed them to see where they were staying one day unnoticed. Considering what we heard from the Irish girl (assuming that was of course CB) but he had been in her apartment in the days before too, she noticed things had moved and money had been taken etc but at the time wrote it off as the cleaners. It seemed like He'd figured out a way to get in before hand, to get a feel for her apartment so everything was ‘to plan’ on the actual night. I personally think he took Madeline, abused her (possibly videoed it or took pics) and disposed of her body relatively soon after. I also don’t think it’s likely he’d be part a peado ring just due to the fact he was a liability. He had many previous convictions, he was well known to police and had spent time in prison on multiple occasions for sex offences against children. A high operating peado ring would cut him loose at that point I’d of thought, or at least distance themselves from him, but then again i have no idea how they all work!

I go back and forth on whether he was a lone wolf or part of a larger network. By all accounts, he was a highly successful criminal in Portugal with his drug dealing, burglaries and rapes. He didn’t have a serious criminal record there either. He had to know, at some level, that this abduction was going to end his other enterprises in PdL for at least several years, but he did it anyways. What would motivate him to do that? His own personal sick desires? Or a big payout from a larger ring of sickos?

It’s hard to know how his mind works...

 

[Dlk79]

One scenario;
Planned.
Knew children were on their own and timed when they were being checked however a look-out to double check.
One abductor left by the front door in the alley and walked carrying M down R. Dr. Francisco.....road a short way to one of the small car park areas which are directly off the road for easier get away.
(looking at google maps for present day - don't know if Club Ocean was less built up in 2007 would have made it easier)

Second scenario;
Forget last part of first scenario - I've just checked a blog with pics of the covered alleyway leading from M's apartment to the apartment's car park and there's a lot of cover.....but danger of being <edited> caught.
aaargh!!

There's so many potential options. With a car nearby, he could have had MM hidden away in another house before anyone even knew she was gone.

The farmhouse with the wells is just a 6 minute drive from the apartment.

 

[Kiranerys]

That’s what I’m leaning too aswell, that he had probably been spying on the family in the days previously, possibly spotted Madeline at the beach and followed them to see where they were staying one day unnoticed. Considering what we heard from the Irish girl (assuming that was of course CB) but he had been in her apartment in the days before too, she noticed things had moved and money had been taken etc but at the time wrote it off as the cleaners. It seemed like He'd figured out a way to get in before hand, to get a feel for her apartment so everything was ‘to plan’ on the actual night.

I personally think he took Madeline, abused her (possibly videoed it or took pics) and disposed of her body relatively soon after. I also don’t think it’s likely he’d be part a peado ring just due to the fact he was a liability. He had many previous convictions, he was well known to police and had spent time in prison on multiple occasions for sex offences against children. A high operating peado ring would cut him loose at that point I’d of thought, or at least distance themselves from him, but then again i have no idea how they all work!

If he isnt responsible for the attack on the Irish holiday rep,how scary is that? 2 twisted rapists in the same area with the exact same M.O!!.
I 100% believe he was responsible for her attack,and god knows how many others!

 

[tedtink]

Yes, from what I remember the child was wearing pajamas similar to the ones Madeleine had on. The British man was wearing tan pants and a jacket similar to what was portrayed in the drawing, as well.

I think parents likely dressed their children in pajamas so they wouldn't have to change them later on while they were asleep. Jmo

Maybe, just maybe and little far fetched just to fit my theory probably - but could Tannerman have been watched on previous nights by the perp and the perp looked for similar clothing & wig?

I think my brains are falling out as per the signature below

 

[Kiranerys]

I go back and forth on whether he was a lone wolf or part of a larger network. By all accounts, he was a highly successful criminal in Portugal with his drug dealing, burglaries and rapes. He didn’t have a serious criminal record there either. He had to know, at some level, that this abduction was going to end his other enterprises in PdL for at least several years, but he did it anyways. What would motivate him to do that? His own personal sick desires? Or a big payout from a larger ring of sickos?

It’s hard to know how his mind works...

This is definitely pause for thought,there isnt a nice way to say this but he could have taken any local child and it would not have been such big news, we already know that the Portuguese authorities at the time didnt publicise attacks on anyone and the McCanns contacted the media themselves,so a local child would have been a much safer bet for him IMO.
Ugh,I am all over the place with this case

ETA The sighting in Spain sticks with me too,it sounds credible on the face of it,wish we knew more about it.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I go back and forth on whether he was a lone wolf or part of a larger network. By all accounts, he was a highly successful criminal in Portugal with his drug dealing, burglaries and rapes. He didn’t have a serious criminal record there either. He had to know, at some level, that this abduction was going to end his other enterprises in PdL for at least several years, but he did it anyways. What would motivate him to do that? His own personal sick desires? Or a big payout from a larger ring of sickos?

It’s hard to know how his mind works...

I wouldn’t be surprised if he genuinely didn’t realise how much it would all blow up, before Madeline, the PJ seemed to be pretty lax at investigating his previous crimes, it seemed he’d got away with everything apart from a minor diesel theft. (Especially if he was responsible for Renés dissapearence for example, I’d see why he’d have the confidence of not being caught)

At the time he probably wouldn’t of imagined how global this case would go. I mean how many kids go missing but get the kind of coverage Madeline McCann had? It’s almost unprecedented. He was lucky the PJ messed up from the start, not sealing off the crime scene etc and then decided to focus on the parents. Those critical days and hours after we’re wasted following wrong leads, which is a element of luck on his part I’d say.

 

[reviloyepmi]

My point? Prioritize these crimes by setting up a separate department that is well funded and well staffed. OT: I’ve always maintained LE, fire and teachers are underpaid. Higher salaries would encourage more interest in these careers.

You'd hope they have. Maybe that's why Madeleine's case has a new lease of life. And agreed – I'm all for more funding towards public services.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

This will be upsetting, but I think he wanted a child that he could communicate with (in his probably twisted way), hence English or German speaking. Maybe for his video viewers. I think he took for his own sick gratification, but I imagine he shared his pics and/or videos and that motivated him too.

 

[Dlk79]

Maybe, just maybe and little far fetched just to fit my theory probably - but could Tannerman have been watched on previous nights by the perp and the perp looked for similar clothing & wig?

I think my brains are falling out as per the signature below

Think that would be a stretch.

But who knows, nothing surprises me in this case anymore. Pop your brains back in.

 

[tedtink]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he genuinely didn’t realise how much it would all blow up, before Madeline, the PJ seemed to be pretty lax at investigating his previous crimes, it seemed he’d got away with everything apart from a minor diesel theft. (Especially if he was responsible for Renés dissapearence for example, I’d see why he’d have the confidence of not being caught)

At the time he probably wouldn’t of imagined how global this case would go. I mean how many kids go missing but get the kind of coverage Madeline McCann had? It’s almost unprecedented. He was lucky the PJ messed up from the start, not sealing off the crime scene etc and then decided to focus on the parents. Those critical days and hours after we’re wasted following wrong leads, which is a element of luck on his part I’d say.

I agree.
He's been very lucky for many years imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe, just maybe and little far fetched just to fit my theory probably - but could Tannerman have been watched on previous nights by the perp and the perp looked for similar clothing & wig?

I think my brains are falling out as per the signature below

I guess anything is possible. It seems there were a lot of parents picking up children and carrying them back to their apartments so the perp would have easily blended in.

 

[reviloyepmi]

I go back and forth on whether he was a lone wolf or part of a larger network. By all accounts, he was a highly successful criminal in Portugal with his drug dealing, burglaries and rapes. He didn’t have a serious criminal record there either. He had to know, at some level, that this abduction was going to end his other enterprises in PdL for at least several years, but he did it anyways. What would motivate him to do that? His own personal sick desires? Or a big payout from a larger ring of sickos?

It’s hard to know how his mind works...

Based purely on conjecture, I'd be inclined to say he was a lone wolf – who maybe manipulated one other person on the resort into helping him, but not under the guise of abducting a child.

Money isn't a factor that motivates CB. If he's a serial killer and sexual abuser as suspected by the German police, what motivates him are his sadistic sexual fantasies.

He fits the mould of a semi-disorganised serial killer – unable to hold down jobs, relationships, possessing drug and alcohol problems, etc. Also his gaunt physical appearance is fairly telling.

While there's an element of organisation to his MO, he's ultimately driven by impulse and desire. Any wider 'ring' he's part of or involved with, would, to my mind, be online only – sharing images, videos, etc.

 

[Hellyl]

IMO once she was out of the apartment and not visibly upset, I don't think there was any need for hiding or trying to not get seen on the way to car/transport (especially if wearing wig etc) mostly due to the fact there was a night creche nearby with parents collecting/carrying children. It would be so blatant that it wouldn't cause suspicion, it wouldn't raise alarm bells until after the fact. If the window was visible to parents, it may have been left opened as a distraction to direct the search away from the door/route from door

 

[tedtink]

Based purely on conjecture, I'd be inclined to say he was a lone wolf – who maybe manipulated one other person on the resort into helping him, but not under the guise of abducting a child.

Money isn't a factor that motivates CB. If he's a serial killer and sexual abuser as suspected by the German police, what motivates him are his sadistic sexual fantasies.

He fits the mould of a semi-disorganised serial killer – unable to hold down jobs, relationships, possessing drug and alcohol problems, etc. Also his gaunt physical appearance is fairly telling.

While there's an element of organisation to his MO, he's ultimately driven by impulse and desire. Any wider 'ring' he's part of or involved with, would, to my mind, be online only – sharing images, videos, etc.

Interesting thoughts there - throw in predatory behaviour and we're forming a good pic of our man.