Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #6

[Midwestmom2019]

That is a really simplistic and frankly xenophobic view if you don't mind me saying.

Deleted. Duplicate post.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Well, the thing is that the Portuguese authorities has got so much wrong in the investigation from day one, so why not give the Germans the DNA to corroborate the DNA results.

Whoever was in the PJ in 2007 or the Portuguse government are not the same in 2020.
Germany has no automatic right to their DNA samples.

 

[rebel123]

Whoever was in the PJ in 2007 or the Portuguse government are not the same in 2020.
Germany has no automatic right to their DNA samples.

The thing is that the Germans are carrying out the investigation, we can agree on that, why wouldn't you want to complete every aspect of the investigation, including DNA testing.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

The thing is that the Germans are carrying out the investigation, we can agree on that, why wouldn't you want to complete every aspect of the investigation, including DNA testing.

The Sky news report says they did. The Germans saying that isn't good enough is not the Portuguese being uncooperative is it?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I imagine the sample size of saliva DNA is not physically very big. The Portuguese have already tested twice. Then there needs to be enough for a defence lawyer to run their own tests. I know there are forensic ways of multiplying the DNA for testing, but it still needs to be handled to a certain extent. Perhaps the Portuguese are merely wanting to preserve the sample, unless they are confident that it is in the best interest of their investigation to issue the actual sample portion out.

 

[SouthAussie]

Whoever was in the PJ in 2007 or the Portuguse government are not the same in 2020.
Germany has no automatic right to their DNA samples.

BBM: While this may be true, Germany has offered one of their nationals as a prime suspect in this crime. There is nothing that obliges them to do that.

One would think with that level of cooperation, the Portuguese might consider a collaboration between the two countries ... allow the Germans to retest using their own methods in the presence of Portuguese analysts. The DNA sample wouldn't have to leave the 'possession' of the Portuguese.


Although he did not mention the suspect by name, European media has reported that man as German national Christian Brueckner.
German prosecutors say Madeleine McCann is dead, new suspect identified — La Fiamma

 

[Dlk79]

The Metro and Mirror are quoting a Portuguese paper regarding the request. Seems to be German LE have requested the handing over a number of pieces of evidence, not just the sample.

Also, the Portugese paper are stating the DNA sample contains very little identification value. Do the German LE perhaps think they have slightly better technology to get more information from the sample?

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/17/germ...ple-found-madeleine-mccann-case-12864682/amp/

Madeleine McCann police 'want to retest' saliva found on bed in family apartment

 

[Cherwell]

I imagine the sample size of saliva DNA is not physically very big. The Portuguese have already tested twice. Then there needs to be enough for a defence lawyer to run their own tests. I know there are forensic ways of multiplying the DNA for testing, but it still needs to be handled to a certain extent. Perhaps the Portuguese are merely wanting to preserve the sample, unless they are confident that it is in the best interest of their investigation to issue the actual sample portion out.

That's my thinking too.
And once again people are pontificating on matters they know little about, based on what they have read in the tabloid press.

 

[Buddha_with_mace]

This is steering away from what matters and becoming a war between countries LE. It should be about justice for Madeleine at any cost, end of.

 

[rebel123]

The Sky news report says they did. The Germans saying that isn't good enough is not the Portuguese being uncooperative is it?

Well the Portuguese are being 'uncooperative'. The Germans are saying 'we want to conduct our own test', nothing wrong with that.
Example, why do families (not literally) carry out their own autopsies when one has already been carried out.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

BBM: While this may be true, Germany has offered one of their nationals as a prime suspect in this crime. There is nothing that obliges them to do that.

One would think with that level of cooperation, the Portuguese might consider a collaboration between the two countries ... allow the Germans to retest using their own methods in the presence of Portuguese analysts. The DNA sample wouldn't have to leave the 'possession' of the Portuguese.


Although he did not mention the suspect by name, European media has reported that man as German national Christian Brueckner.
German prosecutors say Madeleine McCann is dead, new suspect identified — La Fiamma

Good points but I don't think German LE. has technically 'offered a suspect' they want to prosecute him themselves.

I found this info on UK letters of request for DNA samples. These are legal requirements before the UK hands over a sample. Portugal will have similar.

'A summary of the facts giving rise to the request....
'A description of the offences charged'....
...A clear nexus must be established. This goes further than just stating that the required material is relevant to the case'

This is why I don't think it's right to brand Portugal 'uncooperative' when all countries have these sorts of requirements and in this case Germany hasn't even questioned or charged their suspect!

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Well the Portuguese are being 'uncooperative'. The Germans are saying 'we want to conduct our own test', nothing wrong with that.
Example, why do families carry out their own autopsies when one has already been carried out.

Slightly different as families automatically have rights as next of kin.
The German LE are essentially saying - hand over DNA for someone we haven't even questioned yet!

 

[SouthAussie]

The Metro and Mirror are quoting a Portuguese paper regarding the request. Seems to be German LE have requested the handing over a number of pieces of evidence, not just the sample.

Also, the Portugese paper are stating the DNA sample contains very little identification value. Do the German LE perhaps think they have slightly better technology to get more information from the sample?

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/17/germ...ple-found-madeleine-mccann-case-12864682/amp/

Madeleine McCann police 'want to retest' saliva found on bed in family apartment

From the Maddie podcast, it seems that some/many are using what may be considered 'old' DNA testing technology (15 years old). While newer, more precise technology is being utilised elsewhere.


"A so-called advanced wonder technique used to re-test vital DNA samples in the Madeleine McCann mystery is actually just "really old" DNA technology from 15 years ago, according to a world-leading US expert in forensic science.

Dr Perlin has pioneered what is widely believed to the most powerful DNA testing methods on the planet.
Cybergenetics uses computational algorithms to decipher samples once thought to be unsolvable."
Over-hyped DNA-17 is 'really old' tech that can't solve Maddie case, expert claims.

 

[rebel123]

↑
'Slightly different as families automatically have rights as next of kin.
The German LE are essentially saying - hand over DNA for someone we haven't even questioned yet!'


You miss the point, they do it to confirm the original autopsy, sometimes they find differences.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

From the Maddie podcast, it seems that some/many are using what may be considered 'old' DNA testing technology (15 years old). While newer, more precise technology is being utilised elsewhere.


"A so-called advanced wonder technique used to re-test vital DNA samples in the Madeleine McCann mystery is actually just "really old" DNA technology from 15 years ago, according to a world-leading US expert in forensic science.

Dr Perlin has pioneered what is widely believed to the most powerful DNA testing methods on the planet.
Cybergenetics uses computational algorithms to decipher samples once thought to be unsolvable."
Over-hyped DNA-17 is 'really old' tech that can't solve Maddie case, expert claims.

Interestingly enough the family never seem to have wanted to take up this offer of DNA testing that could separate out mixed samples. I really doubt the national forensic Institute in Portugal, (or any labs) would be using 15 year old DNA methods today, that would be the equivalent of prehistoric!

 

[Armchair_Defective]

↑
'Slightly different as families automatically have rights as next of kin.
The German LE are essentially saying - hand over DNA for someone we haven't even questioned yet!'


You miss the point, they do it to confirm the original autopsy, sometimes they find differences.

Ok sorry, I can see why Germany would want to retest but if they did it is essentially saying Portugals National lab and University with all its research and scientists are pants essentially. That's quite a jibe from Germany.

 

[SouthAussie]

Good points but I don't think German LE. has technically 'offered a suspect' they want to prosecute him themselves.

I found this info on UK letters of request for DNA samples. These are legal requirements before the UK hands over a sample. Portugal will have similar.

'A summary of the facts giving rise to the request....
'A description of the offences charged'....
...A clear nexus must be established. This goes further than just stating that the required material is relevant to the case'

This is why I don't think it's right to brand Portugal 'uncooperative' when all countries have these sorts of requirements and in this case Germany hasn't even questioned or charged their suspect!

Can Germany prosecute for a crime that happened in another country?
We are constantly warned not to commit crimes in other countries because we will be subject to the other countries legal system and sentencing.

 

[Integrity123]

I agree also, when i joined this site I thought it was safe to voice or put thoughts out there. I think most of the world want Madeleine found and all the other missing children. And that abuse on defenceless beings should stop.
I know there's rules on here but some people seem so closed minded and unwilling to reply to some comments without belittling some members opinion. I'm just learning myself but would hate to upset people intentionally.
No one knows it all, what's happened or what is going on behind the scenes. X

This is steering away from what matters and becoming a war between countries LE. It should be about justice for Madeleine at any cost, end of.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Can Germany prosecute for a crime that happened in another country?
We are constantly warned not to commit crimes in other countries because we will be subject to the other countries legal system and sentencing.

I think they can because he's a German citizen. Then Portugal could have a claim because the crime took place their but CB would have to be extradited, which he would fight.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I don’t think it will really be Germany vs Portugal, as much as German prosecution vs German defence, with regard to handling of evidence.