Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #9

[Chiatos]

I don’t think we do, but do we know the date of CB’s assault on Oliver? The video said they lived with him for six months but that during the altercation Oliver hit him with a bit of metal to get him off the property, then both him and the police told CB not to come back - so I assume this is when both his work and tenancy at Vila Bianca ended?

It is in the time line: Sept. 22. He lived there from July to Sept. according to sexta9.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

It is in the time line: Sept. 22. He lived there from July to Sept. according to sexta9.

Apologies. Today has already been five days long

 

[photographer4]

At some point in the last two years they concluded not only that she'd died but he was involved? That makes me think something they've found on USB or hard drives. That's only my opinion but I struggle to think of anything else. If it were her clothing they'd have forensic evidence wouldn't they?

Which will be horrific for her parent's.

If they had clothing that matched her clothes when she vanished, AND they DNA tested it, there is no guarantee her DNA was found in it. If they had her DNA with her clothes, they'd have a lot more to go on. But they don't have that as far as we know as we've been told they don't have forensic evidence of her at all. I took that to mean not a hair, not skin cells... nothing forensic. I suspect they have photos / video OR someone has rolled over on CB and pointed the finger at him. It makes more sense to me that someone rolled over on him because police are almost certain she is dead, but do not have forensics. If someone known to police with a criminal record reported to them that CB took and killed the child, it would be enough to convince them probably, but not enough to charge them. It feels like they have a story, and have to prove the events went down in the manner in which police were told.

If they had photos or video, that would make sense too, but maybe they don't have enough to say for sure its MM, or CB....? If they had photos or video, you can imagine the public outcry to hang CB would be huge!

 

[sleuth-d-]

BIB - because CB was investigated at the time and no connection was found. My understanding is German law enforcement have a different suspect they prefer for the Inga case, but cannot prove it.

BIB
i haven't seen that anywhere. would you have a link for this? or is it just your theory.

 

[Dlk79]

Open your quote to see answers.
Oliver and Karin are very certain that CB was already living in Villa Bianca when MM disappeared on May 3rd.
Indeed, all media reports up to now say that he went to live there a few weeks after.

What Ruth says is "I believe he came here in 1994, 1995, something like that". I think she may be actually talking about when CB arrived in Portugal though, not when he started living at the farmhouse. I'm not sure. I've read in other places he lived there from 1999 to 2006.

Regarding Monte Judea, you seemed quite specific about the date being in March 2006, have you got a link for that date or is it just something you've assumed? It's not something I've been able to find.

As for the Austrian couple, I listened to what they said but I still think it may just be an approximation. After all, they weren't living there at the time so they must have been told about it by someone else. I don't think we can take it as Gospel that he was living there by May 3rd based on their statement. As you had written April I was hoping you had seen it confirmed elsewhere.

 

[photographer4]

That is gross! Was it deliberate their heads were sticking up? Very odd. A while back someone posted a social media 'quotation' sort of thing, saying if one wants to bury a body bury it under animal bones or along those lines. I've never heard that before. Has anyone else? Do you think there really could be bodies under the dogs??
GM saying 'ask the dogs' might be unfortunately right!

I do not know if it was deliberate or not. Perhaps they were left that was intentionally, or perhaps someone didn't bury them deep enough and they rose up? Or... maybe other animals scavenged and brought them up partially? Not sure.

 

[photographer4]

On his property! Probably at that run down old factory site in Germany!
He's insane.

Maybe. Who's to say CB buried the dogs in that manner or at all? Someone else could have.

I could see a lawyer arguing that if ever in court.

 

[photographer4]

there is a WSleuths thread for Inga if you are interested.

and what do you make of the coincidences going on here?
2 crimes where a small girl goes missing. different countries. separated by thousands of miles.
in both cases huge searches by police. in both cases absolutely no signs. no body. no evidence. no clues.

in MBM case, CB stayed in the close area at the time (Foral). and CB is on the phone in PdL on the night.

in Inga case CB is known to be in the area (Helmstedt) one day before. and CB had a home in the close area at the time (Neuwegersleben). CB has no alibi, and yet is somehow not a person of interest to LE.

imo, that is some coincidence being ignored .

THanks. I will look for Inga's thread here! That is a lot of coincidence! I hope LE are investigating the heck out it!

 

[sleuth-d-]

BIB - because CB was investigated at the time and no connection was found. My understanding is German law enforcement have a different suspect they prefer for the Inga case, but cannot prove it.

my bold. and more of my bold below...

here's the link i have, dated 7.june.2020
Magdeburg l The public prosecutor's office in Stendal announced on Friday that it would restart the investigation into the Inga missing in Stendal. Spokeswoman Birte Iliev: "It is now being examined whether there are new clues in connection with the murder suspect in Braunschweig." At first, she did not provide any further information.


Neue Ermittlungen im Fall Inga

if you have heard something since then i would be very interested to see the link.

 

[photographer4]

I'm not aware assumption of death was made in 2007. What known evidence was there back then to lead to that conclusion?

I would be surprised if the professionals involved didn't think it however in what appeared to be an absence of any concrete evidence of that British LE at least seemed to still treating it as a missing persons enquiry.

After 13 yrs German LE are suddenly treating it as a murder investigation. A conclusion they reached in the last couple of years. They claim to have some kind of evidence that she is dead. They are also clear that this is not forensic evidence nor do they have a body, any part of a body or any knowledge of it's whereabouts.

If there is no forensic evidence I would assume no clothing or any trace of her DNA. I would assume evidence would mean they've gone beyond just witnesses.

It is just my opinion that it is possible that is something found when investigating him and filmed evidence is all I could think of. Especially given that they found the rape of the 72 year old had been filmed. It would fit his MO. But do you have other suggestions on what could have that have precipitated this very sudden, very public change?

I find the thoughts that the McCanns are not being supported by family liaison officers appalling. We don't know what they've been told

RBBM
LE possibly have had some information given to them by some other criminal who either heard the details directly from CB, or from one of CB's associates. For whatever reason, police find the story credible. We know he gave details to someone at the bar on the 10th anniversary. That person went promptly to LE. So we know they have whatever that person told LE.

I think from there, LE set about trying to corroborate the story. They probably looked for evidence first that CB was in Portugal at the time when MM vanished. Once they confirmed this, they looked for other evidence that he was in the area of the abduction when she vanished (they found the phone records showing the 30 min call with someone).

They have the vehicles that he used at the time. I'm thinking they put those out in the media hoping someone perhaps from the resort at the time could place either vehicle at the resort around the time of the abduction. If they had that, their case would be stronger.

They've said they have no forensic info. I've taken this to mean literally no forensic material - so no blood, hair, skin... no video, no photographs (yet).

I think what they have it a witness who came forward to say CB confessed, and things that seem to corroborate the information. They don't have enough to charge the guy yet. If they did, you'd be hearing about charges, not a plea for people with info to come forward. I think the bar friend said someone else was assisting or involved or had information, and police are looking now for that person.

That is the only thing I can suggest. I firmly believe if they had photographic or video evidence that CB was with MM at all, they'd be all over that like white on rice. You'd think they'd release snips of the video or stills from the scene with MM and CB removed (photoshopped) out. People could then come forward with information about the locations. I think they may have done this when they put out the photos of the inside of his residences.... photos and videos are easy to alter. We may well have already seen where MM was taken and we just don't know it yet.

 

[NewAvenger]

Spent two weeks living at MT's gypsy camp in Órgiva, a few days after the disappearance, according the ideal (Spanish publication)

 

[photographer4]

unless the dogs were alive but tied up or incapacitated, surely they would have dug themselves out again?

I mean, if they could move their legs sure, but if they were tightly packed in there.....

 

[sleuth-d-]

Spent two weeks living at MT's gypsy camp in Órgiva, a few days after the disappearance, according the ideal (Spanish publication)

if CB is responsible for the abduction, i had wondered where he took MBM. at the time he apparently had no house. he was living in the camper van, his only known stopping point nearby was Foral - would he risk going there?

that camp in Órgiva, spain would seem to be a much more likely choice.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

RBBM
LE possibly have had some information given to them by some other criminal who either heard the details directly from CB, or from one of CB's associates. For whatever reason, police find the story credible. We know he gave details to someone at the bar on the 10th anniversary. That person went promptly to LE. So we know they have whatever that person told LE.

I think from there, LE set about trying to corroborate the story. They probably looked for evidence first that CB was in Portugal at the time when MM vanished. Once they confirmed this, they looked for other evidence that he was in the area of the abduction when she vanished (they found the phone records showing the 30 min call with someone).

They have the vehicles that he used at the time. I'm thinking they put those out in the media hoping someone perhaps from the resort at the time could place either vehicle at the resort around the time of the abduction. If they had that, their case would be stronger.

They've said they have no forensic info. I've taken this to mean literally no forensic material - so no blood, hair, skin... no video, no photographs (yet).

I think what they have it a witness who came forward to say CB confessed, and things that seem to corroborate the information. They don't have enough to charge the guy yet. If they did, you'd be hearing about charges, not a plea for people with info to come forward. I think the bar friend said someone else was assisting or involved or had information, and police are looking now for that person.

That is the only thing I can suggest. I firmly believe if they had photographic or video evidence that CB was with MM at all, they'd be all over that like white on rice. You'd think they'd release snips of the video or stills from the scene with MM and CB removed (photoshopped) out. People could then come forward with information about the locations. I think they may have done this when they put out the photos of the inside of his residences.... photos and videos are easy to alter. We may well have already seen where MM was taken and we just don't know it yet.

The pic of the VW on the beach... Is there any way to tell if that’s the original picture? Would it be easy to, say, alter the background of that picture to make it look like it was taken during the day when it was actually taken at night? Or would that be too much work with shadowing etc?

 

[SuperdadV8]

I mean, if they could move their legs sure, but if they were tightly packed in there.....

At the Beginning of June, when the first infos were spread, german tabloids wrote, that the paws of dog with the usb's under it had it's paws cut off. I will try to find the article.

 

[Betty_Boop88]

if CB is responsible for the abduction, i had wondered where he took MBM. at the time he apparently had no house. he was living in the camper van, his only known stopping point nearby was Foral - would he risk going there?

that camp in Órgiva, spain would seem to be a much more likely choice.

Why? Would that not just mean more witnesses to him having her? I can maybe see why he would want people in a distant location to see *him*, to place him far away from the crime in the days following. But would he risk people he didn’t know and had no loyalty to him seeing him with MM?

 

[LeopardLeotard]

I dont want to delve into it but apparently being buried up to the neck is also a fetish ,..other than sheer lunacy,the only explanations i can find is torture,some wierd witchcraft ritual,a wierd medical/theraputic ritual for helping with an illness or a sexual fetish.
The fact that hes done this to dogs and not just a dog (although doing this to anything is abhorrent) is very puzzling. Purely looking from his point of view burying a stash of something under one dead dog would maybe throw anyone looking as they would stop digging at the dog maybe,..but unless theres stuff buried under every dog,i mean its just so odd!

 

[sleuth-d-]

Why? Would that not just mean more witnesses to him having her? I can maybe see why he would want people in a distant location to see *him*, to place him far away from the crime in the days following. But would he risk people he didn’t know and had no loyalty to him seeing him with MM?

possibly not. but i was thinking the occupants of the hippy camp are unlikely to run to the LE with information. and unlikely to co-operate with the LE if they did come looking there.

what other options did he have? park the VW on a beach? in a field?

if the abduction was planned to any degree, then surely the location to take MBM after the abduction was also planned. imo.

 

[photographer4]

The pic of the VW on the beach... Is there any way to tell if that’s the original picture? Would it be easy to, say, alter the background of that picture to make it look like it was taken during the day when it was actually taken at night? Or would that be too much work with shadowing etc?

If you're good at photoshop, its painless to take a camper van out of a night time scene and make it appear as though it were taken during the day. Its a matter of having / taking / downloading a photo of the place in the daytime, and extracting the van from the night time scene, then using the tools to make the van color match the color / mood in the scene. Its the same process to make something photographed in daytime look as though it were taken at night time.

OR: for a day to night transition, you can just use sliders and filters in photoshop and add a moon if you so desire. It's easy and there are lots of tutorials to show you how on youtube.

 

[photographer4]

At the Beginning of June, when the first infos were spread, german tabloids wrote, that the paws of dog with the usb's under it had it's paws cut off. I will try to find the article.

One has to wonder, or maybe I've just seen too many mafia movies... but could someone have killed CB's dog and mutilated it then placed the USB devices in the bag and buried them all together as a means to ensure that CB (or someone close to him) wouldn't talk to anyone ever about some horror he had seen / was aware of?