"Make him stop" - Casey to Baez

[Just Jayla]

My initial thoughts when I saw the video was temper tantrum and what I noted was the "vulnerable" tear session began after JB whispered to her.

I immediately wonder what he whispered and if it was not a reminder that anger was not the video they wanted all over the news that night.

I think she literally had to be told that the normal human reaction of a mother hearing these horrible details of how her child died would be tears.

I don't think she cries when she is angry. We have seen many jail house visits with Cindy where Casey was furious with her and she didn't shed a tear. She screamed, twitched, turned red, but she didn't cry.

moo

She cries when she is not able to flee the situation-Like she cried with LA when she first told him about ZFG. She could not leave the house, CA was not going to leave her alone...So she covers her face and sorta cries-LA noted to LE, as if he himself thought it was strange, that KC was tearing up, but not bawling or anything...
She behaves like a 2 year old, seriously-yes, they throw tantrums, but when mom or dad REALLY lays it down, they break down and cry crocodile tears (my daughter used to cry without tears all the time when she was little, to try to manipulate mom and dad-it didn't work real well).

 

[debbie0604]

Oh my gosh Spangle, I typed this before I even read your post. ITA!

This is what I saw (I'm paraphrasing):

Ashton: Caylee was almost 3 when she died with duct tape over her nose & mouth
Casey: Make it stop
A/L (I assume): I can’t
Ashton: Any child that age should have been able to remove the duct covering her airway preventing her from breathing
Ashton: A juror may conclude Caylee was restrained either chemically or physically
Camera pans to Casey: She is MAD, not crying, not emotional, but MAD. She grabs her wrist, shakes her head, fixes her hair.
Ashton: ….that would render her unable to resist
Casey is still MAD then JB whispers something to her
Asthon: … methodically applied 3 layers of duct tape to cut off her air flow
Casey is still mad
Ashton: …then let nature takes its course
Casey covers her face, chest is heaving, but she is not wiping any tears. In fact, I never saw her wipe any tears until A/L got back up to talk and it was her usual dabbing at her eyes.

My conclusion: Casey is so mad and frustrated that she can’t make Ashton stop that she covers her face and puts on a show. A/L is holding her arm making it appear that she is comforting her. In reality, AL is probably afraid Casey will start beating the table.

IMO…FWIW

I agree with you... and in another video, I heard her say again "make him stop" and AL "I can't." It looks like AL says to her "it's almost over" when her head is down. I can't be sure though.

I have watched this video so many times. I agree, she was angry. I've heard some psychologists on TV state that they feel that she was showing remorse and guilt... if that is case, I would say that she's feeling remorseful and guilty over being "caught" and her parents, friends, and national TV hearing the facts of what she did. There was definitely no remorse or guilt for Caylee that I saw. JMO

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

IMO a mother who is reacting to the grisly details of her daughters death
would have cried the second the details stared... but she
didn't... she was PISSED! Her first reaction to what was being said was not
sad... it was pissed!
She didn't start crying until her attorney whispered to her.... hmmmm?
:waitasec:

Isn't anger a secondary emotion? A primary feeling is what is felt immediately before we feel angry. We always feel something else first before we get angry.

 

[STEADFAST]

IMO a mother who is reacting to the grisly details of her daughters death
would have cried the second the details stared... but she
didn't... she was PISSED! Her first reaction to what was being said was not
sad... it was pissed!
She didn't start crying until her attorney whispered to her.... hmmmm?
:waitasec:

That's what I saw, too. No crying until Baez said something to her. Then, right when the prosecuter stopped talking, she quit sobbing and just continued rubbing at her eyes. It was like, "I'm supposed to cry while he's saying these things . . . Okay, he stopped saying them, so now I'll clean up my eyes."

 

[Baznme]

Interesting Baznme So, you think Casey will take the stand and testify?

It's a possibility but I don't see how that would work to her advantage. I just find it curious that her attorney(s) have been saying all along, the truth will come out at trial. I don't think so much that they will ask her to testify as I believe they may have some off the wall theory that they will try to prove.

 

[Baznme]

I'm not sure JB could have warned her, because he has not been through this type of trial himself.
AL has been through this a million times, but she is so comfortable with the ins and outs, that I think she might minimize a lot of that with KC until she gets to a certain point. She wants to get through all of the preliminary stuff to get a clearer picture of where they go next. Then, I believe, she will advise KC.
KC herself should have every indication of what will be happening to her. She is a functioning adult with capacity to understand that what she did was the worst crime a human can commit...Isn't she a big CSI fan?

I don't think it was choreographed, because the way she said "make him stop was very abrupt. I think the first thing in her head was the fact that her parents were there listening-then she may have thought about how everyone was listening...her "make it stop" sounded kinda like "he's not gonna do this here and now, is he? Shiznit! make'emstop quick!
Then she knew she was cornered, and the cat was out of the bag in front of all those people. It's not like she could pull Ashton out in the hall and say "can we do this somewhere more private?"....it had to be done there, and directly aimed at her.
I think she was also a little shocked that they had developed a loose theory on what happened. And they were damn close. It's like if someone accuses you of looking at *advertiser censored* in front of all your co-workers, then proceeds to list your favorite adult sites and your screen name "lilpete1"....she got soooo busted, and she can't lie her way out of it-How frushtrating, embarrasing, and scary, cause she DOES know this means she is going down.

Your post is very insightful and IMO right on the money.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Watching Jeff Ashton Live, yesterday, and just watching again, I noticed A Lyon, when she was holding KC's arm and gazing at her, that she knows KC is guilty. It was something in her gaze and demeanor, that showed pity for this very sick girl, and she just has her job to do.

JMO

ITA

In addition, in such cases, the defendant is watched every moment to be sure nothing really incriminating happens with the client's demeanor. I'm sure that is AL's job when she is sitting next to Casey. She watches her like a hawk for any unacceptable behavior.

You can be sure Casey will be told everything she did wrong at the hearing today. She will be told not to get so angry. She will be told what gestures are inappropriate... such as the hand-clenching pose she had before Lyon grabbed her arm.

Casey did well at the last hearing. She didn't fuss and pick, she didn't scratch her palms, etc.

This hearing brought out all the bad behaviors which could affect a jury.

And, to keep it on topic, she will be told not to say "make him stop" every time something that disturbs her is said.

By trial time, Casey should have better control of her demeanor. She will have to deal with the photographs of Caylee's bones and skull. She will hear terrible things being said about her, far worse than what she heard at this hearing.

And, when all her former friends get on the stand, that will be a true test.

 

[Jolynna]

I think KC was in pain.

The truth can hurt. She was being described as a monster and was forced to listen.

KC looked like a deer caught in the headlights when JA started talking about the duct tape. Then she shook her head in denial--like liars always do. Yes, KC was grimacing. JA called her a killer. He said it like it was. He had KC squirming. That is what guilty people do. Her hands went over her face so nobody could look at her.

"Make it stop!" The last thing KC wants to hear about is the monstrous act she did. KC wants to disassociate and go off in la la land. She doesn't want to sit in court to be confronted the gory details of her deed.

None of KC's discomfort was related to Caylee. She was hurting from having to look at herself.

It isn't going to get better either. The prosecutors now know how to goad KC and get her to show her ugly. She sure didn't look like a grieving mother. She looked guilty as he77 and mad because somebody dared to call her out.

jmo

 

[Marigold]

Instead of saying "Make him stop", I am shocked that she didn't say anything like, "Oh my baby" or something that showed she was thinking of Caylee's suffering. I mean, she's sitting there in a courtroom, listening to how her daughter was murdered and her emotions weren't stirred enough to say a single thing about Caylee.

 

[panthera]

Maybe she just meant she wanted JB to object or something, not realizing that he couldn't.

let's be sure to keep this thread on topic of that comment please.

I've watched the video a couple of times now and that's what it seems to me. She doesn't want to hear any more of it because she knows what the DA is saying is the truth. The "tears" afterward seem to be yet another performance knowing the camera is on her. MOO

 

[panthera]

That's what I saw, too. No crying until Baez said something to her. Then, right when the prosecuter stopped talking, she quit sobbing and just continued rubbing at her eyes. It was like, "I'm supposed to cry while he's saying these things . . . Okay, he stopped saying them, so now I'll clean up my eyes."

Exactly what I saw also. As many have said, real crying wouldn't just be dabbing at her eyes with one kleenex. MOO

 

[Bobbisangel]

This remark made (I think) by Casey to Mr Baez and his response "I can't" was one of the most fascinating things to come out of today's trial.

Did she honestly think that Mr Baez could or should have been able to make Mr Aston stop talking?

I'm seriously doubting that this girl has any grasp on reality and understanding of what she heading for when this case goes to trial. I do remember hearing talk a while back that Casey had her hopes pinned on a mistrial.

Does anyone else get the feeling that Mr Baez has not been completely honest with his client?

Does Casey believe this would never get to trial or if it did it she would get off on a mistrial? And if so who gave her those ideas?

It left me wondering if Casey only realised today, for the first time, what she is up against. All the evidence is going to come out and she is going to have to sit there and take it all in.

I don't see how she will make it through the trial if this is a percursor of things to come.

I don't think that it is that the defense team have been dishonest with Casey but that Casey hears just what she wants to hear and disregards the rest.

I would think that Baez and Lyon have told Casey just what they tell the media...there is no proof, etc, etc. They tell her what they are going to use for a defense and Lyon even said that Casey helps with the case. This was when she was trying to get visits without the camera. She said that Casey helps with the case and they talk about how things are going to go. I can just hear Casey helping!!!!! Which lie do you want me to tell ya honey?!

I think that Casey has it in her head that she is going to walk free after the trial but I doubt that she has been told that for a fact. I think the defense knows better then that.

 

[seeing_eye]

HONESTLY, COULDN'T IT BE ARGUED . . . .

That her reaction is that of a mother who is reacting to the grisley details of her daughters death? I just keep wondering that. I've read many comments supporting the prosecution here, but shouldn't a mother cry when hearing how her child died??

It's just a question to ponder, though I actually DO support the possibility that her tears are totally self-serving, or even her grasping the reality of her situation for the very first time.

CONGRATS and THANKS to all you sleuths who caught the "make him stop" in the audio. All I can say is WOW, what ears you have! I'm truly impressed.

The majority of mothers would have reacted to the grisly details of their daughter's death (and some would probably faint), but it's been pretty obvious to me since day 31 that Casey is not the normal mother and does not have the normal reactions that mothers have. I form my opinion based on Casey's actions in the past where she has never shown any concern for Caylee's welfare. Throughout this whole ordeal her attitude has been the same as it was the night Cindy passed the phone to her to talk to the 911 operator, "Why do they want to talk to me?" Casey has always appeared to think this is all a game, including the investigations by LE. She has always given the impression that she believes she can outplay, outwit, and outlast all of them. And that's why I think all of her tears yesterday were tears for herself, tears of frustration, and tears of anger. JMO, as always.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Watching Jeff Ashton Live, yesterday, and just watching again, I noticed A Lyon, when she was holding KC's arm and gazing at her, that she knows KC is guilty. It was something in her gaze and demeanor, that showed pity for this very sick girl, and she just has her job to do.

JMO

You know what.....I have tried to hear KC saying to AL "make him stop" but I just don't hear that. However....the first couple times I watched it I wondered if she said, "I'm sorry". And I too thought AL looked at her in a "wth does that mean?" kind of way. But honestly...I can't truthfully say I hear what KC is saying clearly and I'd also bet my last buck she's never said "I'm sorry" in her life. moo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

HONESTLY, COULDN'T IT BE ARGUED . . . .

That her reaction is that of a mother who is reacting to the grisley details of her daughters death? I just keep wondering that. I've read many comments supporting the prosecution here, but shouldn't a mother cry when hearing how her child died??

It's just a question to ponder, though I actually DO support the possibility that her tears are totally self-serving, or even her grasping the reality of her situation for the very first time.

CONGRATS and THANKS to all you sleuths who caught the "make him stop" in the audio. All I can say is WOW, what ears you have! I'm truly impressed.

Well a normal mother would imo, but jsut look back at the 31 days when caylee was missing, and her attitude when she was lying to the police. It makes more sense in this particular context that she's mad and worried for herself, imo

 

[BeanE]

Isn't anger a secondary emotion? A primary feeling is what is felt immediately before we feel angry. We always feel something else first before we get angry.

Unless we are sociopathic.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I understand what you're saying.......but like I said she's had a lot of practice and she's good at it.

Just to be clear, I never saw her crying "hysterically". Just some tears from a nerve being touched and it was short lived. I don't believe for one minute KC is innocent.

I have played that tape over and over and I must be blind because I don't see her crying hysterically either. She wasn't even crying until Baez leaned over and said something in her ear and a few seconds later she puckered up and then hid her face. No klennex or anything until Lyon got up to talk and then she dabbed her mascara a little and that was it. I didn't see any heaving of the chest either.

If a person is really crying hard not only do their eyes stream but so does their nose. She didn't blow her nose a couple times after she put her head up and she didn't have tears streaming down her face. Most of us know what happens when you really break down and cry.

 

[jon_burrows]

You know what.....I have tried to hear KC saying to AL "make him stop" but I just don't hear that. However....the first couple times I watched it I wondered if she said, "I'm sorry". And I too thought AL looked at her in a "wth does that mean?" kind of way. But honestly...I can't truthfully say I hear what KC is saying clearly and I'd also bet my last buck she's never said "I'm sorry" in her life. moo

I hear it at the ~3:44 mark. Casey says 'make him stop'. It sounds like AL says 'I can't right now'.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Unless we are sociopathic.

I am convinced that KC is sociopathic, as stated by Cindy Anthony to Amy H, for many reasons, and believe that the following quotes from "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stoud, PH.D. clearly explains KC's behavior during JA's presentation in court yesterday.


The Tools of the Trade

We are seduced as well by the acting skills of the sociopath. Since the scaffolding of a life without conscience is deception and illusion, intelligent sociopaths often become proficient at acting, and even at some of the particular techniques employed by professional actors. Paradoxically, the visible signs of emotion at will can become second nature to the cold-blooded.

Crocodile tears at will are a sociopathic trademark.

Crocodile tears from the remorseless are especially likely when a conscience-bound person gets a little too close to confronting a sociopath with the truth. A sociopath who is about to be cornered by another person will turn suddenly into a piteous weeping figure whom no one, in good conscience, could continue to pressure. Or the opposite: Sometimes a cornered sociopath will adopt a posture of righteous indignation and anger in an attempt to scare off her accuser.

CITED: The Sociopath Next Door, pg 91

I believe the above could explain KC's behavior yesterday in court, and the opposite "righteous indignation and anger" to describe her mannerisms with her parents in jail videos.

jmo

(Just wanted to add that I personally don't think the "crying" was prearranged with Baez....I think it was a sociopath's reaction to deflect attention)

 

[Searchfortruth]

Well a normal mother would imo, but jsut look back at the 31 days when caylee was missing, and her attitude when she was lying to the police. It makes more sense in this particular context that she's mad and worried for herself, imo

Exactly, there were no tears when she was faced with her child being missing, no tears when autopsy reports were discussed,in open court...nothing. The jury will be able to differentiate between whatever tears Casey manages to produce at trial,and the callous mother who shed no tears when her daughter was missing and found deceased in the woods.