Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #13

[cady]

I just don't buy the "lithium batteries" angle......seem to me, if that were the cause of all this it would have been such a catastrophic incident that we would all know where it happened, when it happened and it would be a sad day in history. But the families would at least KNOW and be able to grieve.

 

[CARIIS]

http://ainonline.com/aviation-news/...es-take-effect-transporting-lithium-batteries

Are those standards binding or just suggestions?[/QUOTE]

That is a good question -- not sure -

 

[21merc7]

There is nothing ATC could have done to help the plane.

Neither Malaysian nor Vietnamese ATC even had any idea where it was.

If a pilot doesn't respond and a plane vanishes off radar, ATC is powerless.

Can you break that down so all understand? Why not, kind of technical, first day of class?

 

[Bravo]

From the Wiki Iliketobendpages just posted-

MHbuddy social networking service

In 2011 Malaysia Airlines introduced a social seating plan that allows passengers to pick seatmates before their flight. The plan lets passengers share their social network profiles and photos with other passengers on the same flight.


Not really pertinent, I just found it interesting.

Sounds like an inflight mixer :facepalm:

 

[CARIIS]

I just don't buy the "lithium batteries" angle......seem to me, if that were the cause of all this it would have been such a catastrophic incident that we would all know where it happened, when it happened and it would be a sad day in history. But the families would at least KNOW and be able to grieve.

I do not think the batts had anything to do with anything other than it illustrates less than clear reporting by authorties, possible non complance as it relates to use jet liners to transport dangerous goods - batts are cat 9 dangerous.

I think it is moe interesting as it relates to the entire mess --the applications for them have some implications as it relates to the whole incident as it relates to if the plane is down and hidden.

Which is my firm belief-- way too much other stuff as it piles up that this was wildly sophistcated, had to involve intense planning and particpation by way more than a couple of folks COmplicated operation

Just my opin!

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://ainonline.com/aviation-news/...es-take-effect-transporting-lithium-batteries

Are those standards binding or just suggestions?[/QUOTE]

In the U.S, binding. Some try to sneak by here and there. However, in the U.S and other countries, the security is such that every package is scanned. I don't know about Malaysia. The security measures are not on the up & up, as we know.

ETA: some countries require a permit for batteries, perfumes and such.

 

[lawstudent]

Can you break that down so all understand? Why not, kind of technical, first day of class?

I'm not the poster, but all ATC is responsible for is directing planes to the right positions (*traffic control*).

If they can't talk to the plane anymore, they can't tell it to go anywhere. They can tell other planes to avoid it or look for it but if the transponder was off, they didn't know where it was.

At that point, if it goes into dangerous territory, the military will act. Or the airline when it doesn't show up. There's not much that can be done to assist if the pilot for some reason can't respond to contact. At that point, it's probably beyond saving.

 

[Holly G. Lightly]

Sadly, speaking with certainty is not a sign of telling the truth.

All the "experts" view the MH-370 disappearance through a personal lens often tailored to promote their own agendas. We should critically analyze any claim made by any of them.

Given the limited information known, the "experts" that deserve the most consideration are those who allow for multiple possibilities for the plane's fate.

Yes, but what I think Gen. McInerney does know is that there is a whole lot more to this than what is being released publicly, and that the US govt is keeping very quiet, while removing the navy ship from the Indian Ocean search, and while Israel is beefing up their security.

All we've got anyway are a few puzzle pieces. I think it's wise to not discount any of the puzzle pieces, but hold on to them and wait and see if they could possibly fit.

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security


The brothers who are alleged to have planted bombs near the finish line of the Boston Marathon on Monday reached the United States in 2002 after their ethnic Chechen family fled the Caucasus. They had been living in the Central Asian republic of Kyrgyzstan and were prevented from resettling in war-racked Chechnya.

They were of Chechen ethnicity, but lived in ( sorry it's on the southern border of Kazakhstan) Kyrgyzstan.

Thank you. I thought i was confusing the bombers with Borat. :banghead:

 

[inkpink]

Are there any upcoming World/World Leader/Western major events planned in the near future that anyone is aware of?

 

[21merc7]

So if there are thousands of them you'd think some would be bobbing about by now. Perhaps I should ask Tomnod to add a fruit icon to the search screen. In all serious though, I assume the searchers will be keeping an eye out for flocks of birds feeding on the "sea".

No. If they were in boxes they sank already. A few may have made it to bob, but after this amount of time, like any flesh - fruit, veg, not typing it, - the fruit is out of oxygen in its own flesh and rotting by now. Birds and larger ocean fish would have eaten any left on the surface long before now.

For tomnod, think odd shapes. Not nature. And think shiny, really shiny. Square and rectangle are not waves or clouds. Click away no matter what, it all goes into a data base anyhow, something that gets more clicks is looked at, probably by a program.

All military does have paid staff for viewing satellite images, trained staff. So, it doesn't matter what you click on, a program is viewed by whomever, long after military has looked. The idea is, the world looks and sees something the staff missed.

 

[CARIIS]

And is there a recording of this?

Another "interestng " story that noone followed up on ( I vividly remermber becaue it meant that the FDR was transmitting and could be located. This was the 8th , at that point I had not arrived at the conclusion that it landed.


Vietnam rescue official says missing Malaysian plane's signal detected
Xinhua | March 08, 2014 11:45

This is not all the other detections much later.

The Xinhua News Agency, citing a local Vietnamese media report, says a Vietnamese search and rescue official reported that the signals have been detected from the plane from about 220 kilometers (120 miles) southwest of Vietnam's southernmost coastal province of Ca Mau.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...tects-signals-from-missing-malaysia-airlines/

Published March 07, 2014 /
Associated Press

At that point in time the only thing it could refer to is the bings from the FCR and or CVR


http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabi...missing-Malaysian-planes-signal-detected.aspx

"

 

[CARIIS]

Makes sense . CNN expert just said that when someone deletes files, they can be found if they have not written been written over by new data.

So I suppose, if I wanted to really get rid of something I would erase it early to make I have penty of time to cover up all the data that I do not want to be found.

And to make sure I suppose I would do it so that I had lots of stuff to put over it to make certain that I prohibited discovery down the road .

ANd it seems more credible now that they say some files were deleted later ,, wonder if had to make more room to load more to cover up ??

 

[ToutCa]

I'm not the poster, but all ATC is responsible for is directing planes to the right positions (*traffic control*).

If they can't talk to the plane anymore, they can't tell it to go anywhere. They can tell other planes to avoid it or look for it but if the transponder was off, they didn't know where it was.

At that point, if it goes into dangerous territory, the military will act. Or the airline when it doesn't show up. There's not much that can be done to assist if the pilot for some reason can't respond to contact. At that point, it's probably beyond saving.

Yes, that's very well put. Each ATC has a specific territory in which it controls traffic.

ATC's job is to organize traffic in its area. If a plane stops talking and vanishes off ATC radar, ATC can't do anything beyond keep calling for it, alerting nearby planes, and notifying the airline it has no contact.

MH-370 vanished from both Malaysian and Vietnamese ATC radar. It stopped talking.

At that point, it was up to the pilots and the pilots alone to save the plane.

Now, entirely separately, if Thai/Malaysian military radar watchers had been more alert, maybe they could have scrambled fighter jets to try to approach the wandering plane and see what was up.

The evidence released so far says each failed to do so.

 

[alioop]

Are there any upcoming World/World Leader/Western major events planned in the near future that anyone is aware of?

G20 summit here in Brisbane Australia in November. Just 15 mins drive from my house.

 

[21merc7]

There is nothing ATC could have done to help the plane.

Neither Malaysian nor Vietnamese ATC even had any idea where it was.

If a pilot doesn't respond and a plane vanishes off radar, ATC is powerless.

Can you break that down so all understand? Why not, kind of technical, first day of class?

I'm not the poster, but all ATC is responsible for is directing planes to the right positions (*traffic control*).

If they can't talk to the plane anymore, they can't tell it to go anywhere. They can tell other planes to avoid it or look for it but if the transponder was off, they didn't know where it was.

At that point, if it goes into dangerous territory, the military will act. Or the airline when it doesn't show up. There's not much that can be done to assist if the pilot for some reason can't respond to contact. At that point, it's probably beyond saving.

3 Quotes.

I am asking can you explain ATC in simple terms. How is that all shut down, so no one sees 777.

The rest we know, no communication, shot down in certain areas.

Fuller understanding of how is ATC not working is the question.

Thanks in advance,

FinneganBeginAgain

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Good read.

"The Independent asks how, given 21st-century communication technology, a large passenger jet can simply vanish. Since every iPad and iPhone owner can get an app that allows them to trace their device if lost, it seems absurd that a £160m, 250-ton jet aircraft should be untraceable."


http://rt.com/op-edge/malaysia-passenger-plane-missing-309/

The plane can't be traced because the systems that are in place to do that were either shut down deliberately or failed at separate times for some undetermined reason.

Every time another safety factor, ELTs and/or GPS, is mentioned there is a reason given why they didn't work, aren't expected to work anyway or were of no use in the case of this plane. GPS needs a receiver to work (anything beyond that is above my head). If the systems are shut down all the locator features (expect the SATCOM, part of the ACARS, in this case) no longer worked.

It's not as if the systems to track planes don't exist, it is that someone went to great lengths to stop them from working, allegedly. Otherwise, this is a case of extreme Murphy's law where everything that can go wrong did go wrong. To include the pilots not being able to send out any kind of a stress signal to warn of the plane's failings. Also noted are the less than ideal locations at two key points during the flight, when a handoff was taking place and, if the plane crashed, near the most ominous ocean on the face of the earth. Bad luck indeed!

Not to forget, that the mother and surrounding countries didn't seem to be monitoring their radar during the hours this flight may have been in trouble. If the foreign object was observed, nobody seemed to care. Another system, if used, could have resulted in earlier investigation informing the plane was in trouble regardless of hijack or mechanical malfunction.
Also, the added safety measures of purchasing a plan related to ACARS wasn't implemented making for worst case scenario in case of a crash.

It isn't as if there aren't tracking systems in place, it is that nobody expects or expected them all to fail at once or whatever happened to make them stop working and then have every other circumstance seem counter to a catastrophic crash scenario occurring.

For the future, these systems will have to be improved and the public has the right to know what the plane they are flying on is equiped with such as full ACARS and WIFI and whatever else increases the odds of finding the plane quickly if it goes down.

For me, it is difficult to accept that all the bad luck coincidences this flight had going for it happened by chance.

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think its anything quite that extreme. I think the photos were taken by commercial satellite on the 16th. It took a few days before they saw the potential debris in the photos, they transmitted to Australia who had their guys look at the photos. They wanted to be as sure as possible before sending assets out that far into the ocean and/or raising hopes the plane had been found. By the time the search craft get out there, the debris has likely sank.

I totally agree, I remember the PM announcement "night" After it goes on and it is revealed that all the commotion is about a pic 4 days earlier I remember thinking
you have got to be kidding me it was like we will just ignore the fact (that has to be known by any thinking entity) that unless it was 400 ton navy something, in bad weather, to fly all over there with the belief that you are gonna find something, in a wild ocean that was there 4 days ago


Ahhh

 

[JerseyGirl]

Are there any upcoming World/World Leader/Western major events planned in the near future that anyone is aware of?

Second anniversary of the death of Osama bin Laden on May 2.

Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[What'sThatClue]

Are there any upcoming World/World Leader/Western major events planned in the near future that anyone is aware of?

Oh yeah!


https://www.nss2014.com/en

Nuclear Summit at The Hague March 24-25. Leaders from 53 countries and 4 organizations will attend. President Obama will be there, iirc he just left. Leaders will arrive by 23rd, leave on 26th.

Another link: http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/to/Nuclear-Security-Summit-2014-in-The-Hague.htm

ETA: http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/International-The-Hague/to/Preparations-for-NSS.htm?channel=touch


The Hague is preparing for the largest international summit meeting ever held in the Netherlands: the Nuclear Security Summit (NSS). By hosting the NSS as the International City of Peace and Justice, The Hague is contributing to global collaboration on nuclear issues and to the prevention of nuclear terrorism.

On 24 and 25 March 2014 the city will be welcoming 58 world leaders, 5,000 delegates and 3,000 journalists. Preparations are in full swing. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is organising the summit in close cooperation with the Municipality of The Hague and many other parties. The Hague is carrying out its work with attention to the interests of city residents, businesses and visitors and in close cooperation with all the local, regional and national authorities involved.