Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #19

[aa9511]

That is amazing to me. They are typically very careful with those numbers.

It will be interesting to find out the root cause of the discrepency.

If it was actually said that way on the audio tape, that is very concerning. Imagine if a heading was said wrong or an altitude. It is serious business with the communication.

Im hoping it is just the transcript that is wrong and the audio is correct.

It doesnt even matter really because regardless of what part is wrong, this is just another example of the total chaos that has been this investigation. This is turning into 1 very sad fiasco. No wonder the families are upset.

When the famlies were showing they were upset very early on, I had assumed they were over reacting but lately I have realized they have every right to be upset and they probably noticed the BS run around they were getting much quicker than the public has.

bbm

ITA with this. I think there is some reason they are so upset with Malaysian officials, and I don't think the sole reason is because they don't know exactly what happened or even that they can't find the plane. I think they are asking the officials specific questions, and the officials are not willing to give them straight answers to those questions.

Just like we on here have so many questions. I honestly do not think the officials are giving the families any more information than what they are releasing to the public. So just look at how many questions we have!

Anderson Cooper made me a little mad last night when he showed the map some of the family members had made, saying that they don't believe this was accident b/c the map clearly shows the plane was trying to fly stealth/undetected. And Anderson and one of his guests were like, oh this map isn't based on facts, it has to be based on facts. Well, the map used the "facts" which were released by Malaysian officials about which points they saw the plane on military radar. The map the families made used those same points. It's just like I have pointed out and so many on here have pointed out about the ATC lines. We are going on the facts Malaysians are giving us, not just making up facts. It really made me kinda mad that Anderson and his guest just tossed aside the family member's map as being nothing, and yet they are constantly taking every word the Malaysians say as "fact," even though we have all seen those "facts" change about 50 million times!

JMO.

 

[aa9511]

That IS the official transcript.

Ok I am very confused now b/c the one that I read on the Telegraph website a week or so ago was very different from the one that was linked to upthread.

 

[21merc7]

Omg wow The Telegraph really needs to be held accountable for publishing TOTALLY FALSE transcript. This transcript is nothing like the transcript they supposedly got from unnamed someone or other. Can't believe they would go public with it without verifying that it was the actual transcript copy!

That may not actually be the Telegraph's fault.

The bits that were released first were translated from one language to another, perhaps by someone that speaks nothing of either language fluently or is only really fluent in one language, in order to get something to the families of the passengers from China. Then it got reprinted around the world in whatever language it got translated again into for the countries it was printed in.

 

[time]

The Inmarsat people " claiming that they can read and interpert frequency shifts in the response signals from the aircraft, and they can differentiate aspects of the signal using the apparent figure eight wobble of the satellite, and glean information about the aircraft’s orientation. The aging satellite was never designed for such a demanding task."

http://jeffwise.net/2014/03/27/why-did-australia-change-the-search-area/

 

[aa9511]

That may not actually be the Telegraph's fault.

The bits that were released first were translated from one language to another, perhaps by someone that speaks nothing of either language fluently or is only really fluent in one language, in order to get something to the families of the passengers from China. Then it got reprinted around the world in whatever language it got translated again into for the countries it was printed in.

Yes, you may be right but all I know is that the previous "transcript" and this "transcript" are nothing alike.

So is this transcript definately the actual transcript?

 

[ToutCa]

I agree that we are all frustrated. However, we cannot keep making excuses.

Yes, but we have to separate tin-foil hat molehills from legitimate potential mountains of worry.

Molehills:
-Garbled flight numbers: Molehill. Normal for pilots to garble flt numbers.
-not checking (stolen)passports: Molehill. Malaysia never checked any passports.
-doctored iranian photos: Molehill. Bungled a copy job, so what?
-deleted content on simulator: Molehill. FBI retrieved deletions, said nothing suspicious.
-alright goodnight: Molehill. So it was "Goodnight Malaysian 370", not "Alright goodnight". So what?

Potential mountains of worry:
-radar data: Radar track from 1:21-2:15am very worrisome. What happened next?
-cargo manifest: Worrisome we don't know, assume investigators do, though.
-changing wording re MH370 crashed: ??? What wording?

The fact that Malaysian officials are corrupt, inept, and withhold information doesn't mean that information released detailing regular, routine facets of MH-370's flight signify anything other than routine.

My feeling remains the same, this is 75% likely to be an intentional diversion. And if so, we still have no clue by whom, to where, and why...

 

[Momoffourboys]

Ok I am very confused now b/c the one that I read on the Telegraph website a week or so ago was very different from the one that was linked to upthread.

Here you go. Officially official from the official!


https://www.facebook.com/najibrazak?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

[JerseyGirl]

I've read this so many time, i hear it in my head! Not 1 single news agency has reported the discrepancy as yet, to clarify it (having looked through heaps of reportings of it)

12:32:13 (MAS 370) MAS 377 request taxi.
12:32:26 (ATC) MAS 37..... (garbled) ... standard route. Hold short Bravo.
12:32:30 (MAS 370) Ground, MAS 370. You are unreadable. Say again.
12:32:38 (ATC) MAS 370 taxi to holding point Alfa 11 Runway 32 right via standard route. Hold short of Bravo.

ATC point out MAS 370 is unreadable before taxi'ing

The pilot may have flown the 377 route before, but i don't think he was flying a back to back flight, as was he not at court prior to going on duty?

Then the speaker of MAS370 was the co-pilot or someone else who flew in on the 377 from Guangzhou that night?

We all know there are 4 seats in the cockpit.

bbm

 

[ToutCa]

I disagree with much of this post and I understand YMMV but my points are:

Excellent points. Let me address them as best I can.

1) someone should "demand" ? I don't understand how that would work. I just don't think anyone can be in a position to "demand" anything from a private company - they are not some government agency. The own and operate satellites.

Inmarsat broke normal air disaster protocol and issued repeated lengthy public statements, lobbying officials through the press on where to orient the search. Since they thrust themselves into the public domain, they opened themselves to discussion and criticism. Interested parties have every right to pressure them to reveal their data and explain and defend their analysis of it.

2) You think there is no verifiable proof - and all I can say to that is just because we don't know, doesn't mean proff doesn't exist.

No verifiable proof of a southern path has been made public. If they can't or won't release such proof, then passenger families ought to be supported in their effort to expand the search to the northern path.

3) I have asked this before: how exactly does any investigative team make an "intense effort" to search the north? Satellites, i understand, and we do not know if this is being done or not. But short of that, what do you suggest? Armies march into sovereign countries? Invade foreign airspace/ I understand the desire to search north but how exactly would that work?

I am not sure if you are thinking the US or someone else should be more demanding of answers: who do you think that should be? I believe the US has a public interest in this and should try to influence the investigation, but other than that, I don't know what a foreign country can do...
This is very complicated.

Early on, Malaysia sent planes and assets to Kazakhstan, who agreed to base the northern part of the search. If Inmarsat's prior analysis is mis-stated, and the northern path cannot be discounted, more assets ought to be moved to search it. Large parts of the northern path (China/Kazakhstan) CAN be searched. Much could be done through partnerships and diplomatic requests rather than war. Since the search expanded in the south, as far as we know, nothing has been being done in the north at all. Nothing.

 

[MummaP]

The Inmarsat people " claiming that they can read and interpert frequency shifts in the response signals from the aircraft, and they can differentiate aspects of the signal using the apparent figure eight wobble of the satellite, and glean information about the aircraft’s orientation. The aging satellite was never designed for such a demanding task."

http://jeffwise.net/2014/03/27/why-did-australia-change-the-search-area/

There is an absolutely fantastic comment in the comments section below this article, whereby someone has actually plotted the route if the aircraft travelled in the northern corridor - very interesting, and i wonder if its being, or has ever been considered?

 

[SweetT]

Yes, but we have to separate tin-foil hat molehills from legitimate potential mountains of worry.

Molehills:
-Garbled flight numbers: Molehill. Normal for pilots to garble flt numbers.
-not checking (stolen)passports: Molehill. Malaysia never checked any passports.
-doctored iranian photos: Molehill. Bungled a copy job, so what?
-deleted content on simulator: Molehill. FBI retrieved deletions, said nothing suspicious.
-alright goodnight: Molehill. So it was "Goodnight Malaysian 370", not "Alright goodnight". So what?

Potential mountains of worry:
-radar data: Radar track from 1:21-2:15am very worrisome. What happened next?
-cargo manifest: Worrisome we don't know, assume investigators do, though.
-changing wording re MH370 crashed: ??? What wording?

The fact that Malaysian officials are corrupt, inept, and withhold information doesn't mean that information released detailing regular, routine facets of MH-370's flight signify anything other than routine.

My feeling remains the same, this is 75% likely to be an intentional diversion. And if so, we still have no clue by whom, to where, and why...

I respectfully disagree that this is a diversion.. We have so many other things that can and are diversions that this seems highly unlikely IMO.. I also do not believe Putin is involved... That's just crazy talk.

 

[Tiepos]

Hello again to everybody! In frustration with the absence of any news about MH-370, I took a break from posting for the last few days...

The failure of searches so far to turn anything up is worrying. The conclusion that the satellite-ping data established a clear southern track seems flimsy and very questionable.

Why don't Inmarsat and the investigators release the raw ping data?

If not to the public, they should release it to several independent groups of scientists who can go over it with fresh eyes and draw new conclusions about what the plane did between 2:15 and 8:11am.

The northern route has been all but ignored. Countries along that potential path have been allowed to issue rote denials their March 8 radar showed any unknown planes without question, challenge, or public heat.

Worrying.

This sort of fits with a thought I just had.

Does the military radar just see a “hit”, or does it give an idea of the size of the object as well?

Every so often I indulge myself in a little conspiracy theory. :laughitup:

Maybe there was a decoy aircraft travelling the other way, while MH370 veered off in a totally different direction. :crazy::eye:

 

[JerseyGirl]

Ok I am very confused now b/c the one that I read on the Telegraph website a week or so ago was very different from the one that was linked to upthread.

I know I can't find it. I thought I posted it in the many threads here. Does anyone remember the date it was released?

 

[1&2&3]

It's a criminal investigation. Why is this upsetting?

Guess we are looking at this in two different ways.

My thinking was with all the screw-ups that have occurred, the government saying the plane ended in the ocean, yet there is NO proof and at the same time telling me they have sealed evidence.

To me, as a relative, that would be earth shattering! The pieces just do not form a logical pattern! As with anything, it is the way information is stated as to how it is perceived, and I was just stating my thoughts. :seeya:

 

[21merc7]

I know I can't find it. I thought I posted it in the many threads here. Does anyone remember the date it was released?

Is this it? Try this one. (March 21, 2014 transcript from Mandarin to English)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...l-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

Excellent points. Let me address them as best I can.



Inmarsat broke normal air disaster protocol and issued repeated lengthy public statements, lobbying officials through the press on where to orient the search. Since they thrust themselves into the public domain, they opened themselves to discussion and criticism. Interested parties have every right to pressure them to reveal their data and explain and defend their analysis of it.



No verifiable proof of a southern path has been made public. If they can't or won't release such proof, then passenger families ought to be supported in their effort to expand the search to the northern path.



Early on, Malaysia sent planes and assets to Kazakhstan, who agreed to base the northern part of the search. If Inmarsat's prior analysis is mis-stated, and the northern path cannot be discounted, more assets ought to be moved to search it. Large parts of the northern path (China/Kazakhstan) CAN be searched. Much could be done through partnerships and diplomatic requests rather than war. Since the search expanded in the south, as far as we know, nothing has been being done in the north at all. Nothing.

Thank you for your well thought out response. I agree that diplomatic pressure can/should be applied. I was reacting to "should demand" information: the information ins theirs. You know, perhaps Immarstat was just trying to help and this has gone out of control.

And I agree that until something is found, the northern direction should not be abandoned.

I just read people posting that the north should be searched as intensely - and I just don't think that is possible. China isn't going to let foreign military search through their airspace or on the ground - and if the US were in their position, I don't think the US would allow foreign military to have free reign in our airspace, either. I just don't think it is possible to search the north as intensively..

I keep thinking one of two things;
1) Someone knows more... perhaps the US, perhaps China, perhaps multiple parties.. about the general direction and final resting place of that plane -and maybe this isn't such a crap shoot
or
2) No one knows more and at least AUS and other partners in this search are just going to give it the best they've got with limited info - and I cheer them for that.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Yes, but we have to separate tin-foil hat molehills from legitimate potential mountains of worry.

Molehills:
-Garbled flight numbers: Molehill. Normal for pilots to garble flt numbers.
-not checking (stolen)passports: Molehill. Malaysia never checked any passports.
-doctored iranian photos: Molehill. Bungled a copy job, so what?
-deleted content on simulator: Molehill. FBI retrieved deletions, said nothing suspicious.
-alright goodnight: Molehill. So it was "Goodnight Malaysian 370", not "Alright goodnight". So what?

Potential mountains of worry:
-radar data: Radar track from 1:21-2:15am very worrisome. What happened next?
-cargo manifest: Worrisome we don't know, assume investigators do, though.
-changing wording re MH370 crashed: ??? What wording?

The fact that Malaysian officials are corrupt, inept, and withhold information doesn't mean that information released detailing regular, routine facets of MH-370's flight signify anything other than routine.

My feeling remains the same, this is 75% likely to be an intentional diversion. And if so, we still have no clue by whom, to where, and why...

I, respectfully, disagree and sincerely hope you are right.
Thing is, if one, two or three of these occurred...then I may discount them, as you are doing. For ALL of these to occur would take an unfortunate and devastating coincidence. IMO.

 

[JerseyGirl]

"Good night Malaysian three seven zero", was the last conversation in the transcript between the air traffic controller and the cockpit of the missing Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 aircraft, the Transport Ministry said in a statement here today.

The Ministry said the authorities were still doing forensic investigation to determine whether those last words from the cockpit were by the pilot or the co-pilot.

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-c...rsation-was-good-night-malaysian-370-1.542508

bbm
ibm

 

[SouthAussie]

I’ve been thinking about how many aircraft fly around with their radar identifiers turned off.

Do other countries military planes sometimes do this, so that our Western military cannot track their movements? (And maybe we even do it ourselves?) For whatever reason, not necessarily a nefarious one. I definitely could imagine some countries, such as perhaps Indonesia, doing this.

We have assumed that the unidentified plane was MH370. Could it have been some other plane that then landed safely in its home country?

 

[aa9511]

I respectfully disagree that this is a diversion.. We have so many other things that can and are diversions that this seems highly unlikely IMO.. I also do not believe Putin is involved... That's just crazy talk.

I think the poster meant "intentional diversion" as in someone intentionally maneuvered and flew that plane off of the flight path, for nefarious reasons. As in, not an accident.

JMO.