Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

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I have such a silly suggestion/question and I don't fully understand Imnarsat's capabilities which I'm sure are fullproof(technology is slowly leaving me in it's cloud of dust:sigh:) but I wonder if it's possible if the current plotted handshakes on the 7th arc could be mirrored or opposite. Visually speaking the current handshake points are on the East side of a circle and I'm wondering if the points could be on the west side (yes, it's a stretch I know :what:). I can't see this as a real possibility given the level of technology involved in Imnarsat's data analysis but then again the plane hasn't been found.

Yes I have seen some pictures of the handshake circles extending on the left hand side also.
So it looks like the satellite doesn't know any of the directions.
The distance from the satellite was theorized using the Doppler Effect
& the time for the signal to bounce back & forth.

The only problem I see with the plane reaching the west circumference range
would be the TIMES that the handshakes occur.
I don't think the time spans are long enough to allow for the plane
travelling all that greater distance to reach the western range.
A sleek military jet might be able to do it, but I don't think that
a bulky commercial plane could move that fast.
If the commercial plane tried do it, you'd probably end up with a handshake directly underneath
the satellite ... so with an extremely rapid pingback compared to those at the extremes.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable can speak more to this subject.
 
There are possible insurances from a number of sources.

Firstly, the Montreal Convention of which Malaysia is a signatory, provides for strict liability for aircraft accidents. It's around $175,000US. So no one claiming the money on behalf of the deceased passenger has to prove negligence on the part of the airline.

Montreal Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there could be travel insurance taken out by the passenger that is payable by the insurer and normal life insurance and workers compensation insurance if it were a business trip.

Then there could be more than the Montreal convention payment claimed in legal action but negligence has to be proven. The amount that can be claimed depends on various things including the country of residence of the passenger. Legal action would usually be bought against all or any of the airline, the plane manufacturer and the engine manufacturer. These amounts can be in the millions.
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

Unfortunately, the purported 9-11 cell phone calls from various doomed aircraft in the U.S. 2001 terror incident turned the issue of cell phone performance at altitude into a political argument, to this day.

I read a scientific article that explained succinctly why there are essentially no sustained communications between a cell phone in a plane at more than 8000 feet above ground level and and ground-based towers. Interesting, but according to summitpost.org, cell phones work for at least some distance above 14,200 feet on Mount McKinley in Alaska. Of course, service will be unreliable there because cell towers are very scarce in the wilderness. In 2007, a climber at the top of Mount Everest (29,000 feet) successfully sent a cell phone text message through the tower at Rongbuk, China (16,000 feet). Can you make a sustained cell-phone connection with a tower from altitude differentials far greater than 14,000 feet? Probably not, for reasons explained below. But can a cell tower acquire your position (handshake/ping) when you are far more than 14,000 feet above the tower? In some cases, yes.

Regarding cell phone calls from aircraft, there is nothing magically-wrong about being at 35,000 feet, as long as the cell tower is no more than 22 to 45 miles away from you (the useful ranges of towers vary by configuration and design), and the tower is not directly under your position or is its dish tilted too-steeply downwards. At high altitude, you always have line-of-sight with towers, which is the ideal situation for maximum range communication. But I have learned from pilot reports on the internet that cell phones only occasionally make contact with a tower when the plane is at 35,000 to 39,000 feet. So, what is the problem? The problem is not that your high altitude is magically preventing all contact with the tower. The problem is actually threefold:

1) from the airplane you can typically detect many towers at the same time. This wreaks havoc, hogs the system, and leads to dropped calls.
2) you are changing position at a speed of hundreds of miles per hour. New towers are constantly detectable, magnifying the problem described above.
3) if the tower dishes are tilted towards earth, your signal at great altitude may be weak to non-existent.

The claim that the First Officer's cell phone (on MH 370) connected with a tower conveniently supports the westward turn and track of the plane, and also supports that the plane deliberately moved to lower altitudes (14,000 feet or lower, based upon my above information). Interestingly, ground witnesses generally report that the plane was lower than normal and noisier than usual. But none of this changes my previously-posted opinions by one whit: if the First Officer's cell phone could contact/ping a tower, so could any other active cell phone/device on the plane. The passengers and crew did not have to be conscious- their devices would not stop working from a lack of oxygen- their devices only had to be left on by mistake or on purpose.

Sleuth On!
Maybe the passengers' phones were left on. There have been reports of families on the ground calling the passengers' phones and ringing through. Wouldn't that mean their phones were connected?
 
Maybe the passengers' phones were left on. There have been reports of families on the ground calling the passengers' phones and ringing through. Wouldn't that mean their phones were connected?

Not necessarily. Even if a phone is off it will still ring.
If my phone is off or dead and someone calls me, it will ring a few times and then go to Voicemail.
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

The lack of a single piece of debris on the ocean has led to suggestions that the plane made an intact water landing and sank whole. If so, the shock sensors should have activated the four ELT's on board. If the plane stayed afloat for at least 50 seconds, there was adequate time for the ditching location to be sent to satellites, before the ELT's were submerged. In summary, it is not likely that the plane whacked into a turbulent Indian Ocean and remained whole, without activating the ELT's. Remember also, an impact with the ground would also have activated the ELT's.

Things float better in salt water than in fresh water. Human remains should have been found by now. What about clothing, seat cushions, pillows, half-empty water bottles, luggage cases, low-density plastic shards, splintered wood pallets from the cargo compartment, waxed cardboard, kids' toys, pencils, etc.? Think about all of the buoyant items that are on a large passenger jet. And this does not begin to cover all of the items that sink, but should later wash up.

No ELT signal. No debris on any ocean. Multiple ground witnesses all see a plane flying low and/or noisily in the Gulf of Thailand. One witness thinks the plane is on fire (although there could be another explanation for this).

We have been led step-by-step into accepting a complex and convoluted scenario. But when you stand back and reconsider, doubts remain.
 
Not necessarily. Even if a phone is off it will still ring.
If my phone is off or dead and someone calls me, it will ring a few times and then go to Voicemail.
Interesting. Mine goes into voicemail immediately if my phone is powered off. I wonder if it's dependent on the carriers.
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

The lack of a single piece of debris on the ocean has led to suggestions that the plane made an intact water landing and sank whole. If so, the shock sensors should have activated the four ELT's on board. If the plane stayed afloat for at least 50 seconds, there was adequate time for the ditching location to be sent to satellites, before the ELT's were submerged. In summary, it is not likely that the plane whacked into a turbulent Indian Ocean and remained whole, without activating the ELT's. Remember also, an impact with the ground would also have activated the ELT's.

Things float better in salt water than in fresh water. Human remains should have been found by now. What about clothing, seat cushions, pillows, half-empty water bottles, luggage cases, low-density plastic shards, splintered wood pallets from the cargo compartment, waxed cardboard, kids' toys, pencils, etc.? Think about all of the buoyant items that are on a large passenger jet. And this does not begin to cover all of the items that sink, but should later wash up.

No ELT signal. No debris on any ocean. Multiple ground witnesses all see a plane flying low and/or noisily in the Gulf of Thailand. One witness thinks the plane is on fire (although there could be another explanation for this).

We have been led step-by-step into accepting a complex and convoluted scenario. But when you stand back and reconsider, doubts remain.
Pencils? :lol:

Agreed. There is no way that a 300 ton plane just glides into an ocean.

I wish someone would do a test run to try to duplicate this scenario.

I wonder how auto-pilot would handle low fuel, since a belief is that is flew until it gassed out.

The lack of the of debris to me, means there is no plane in the areas they are searching.

JMO
 
Mystery's Milestone: Malaysia Flight Has Been Missing for 100 Days

Marking the 100th day since Flight MH370 went missing, Malaysia Airlines on Sunday issued a grief-laden statement saying they "feel the families' pain".

“Despite the best efforts and resources over the last 100 days, this most extensive search in history has still not found answers,” the statement said.

"Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of the 239 persons on board the flight. The families has been on our minds throughout these past 100 days, and will continue to do for a long while to come. We feel the families' pain; we miss our colleagues and friends on board MH370. We feel the families' anguish, and like them, Malaysia Airlines continues to hope and seek answers that will bring us closer to finding out what happened to MH370." ...

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...ysia-flight-has-been-missing-100-days-n131496
 
Pencils? :lol:

Agreed. There is no way that a 300 ton plane just glides into an ocean.

I wish someone would do a test run to try to duplicate this scenario.

I wonder how auto-pilot would handle low fuel, since a belief is that is flew until it gassed out.

The lack of the of debris to me, means there is no plane in the areas they are searching.

JMO


I have been reading some pilot forums and I read that a 777 glides just as good as any plane out there..the posts were very technical and very long and in the scenarios a Pilot was flying/gliding the plane.

The lack of debris is very perplexing..we expect to find some kind of debris, anything right?...but we have nothing.
Would a Pilot glide a plane into the ocean to avoid creating a debris field?

One would think that a pilot would glide a plane to save the passengers such as the following incidents..Captains were also experienced glider pilots

July 23, 1983, Air Canada Flight 143, Boeing 767-233 (aka Gimli Glider)
August 24, 2001, Air Transat 236, Airbus A330-243, landed in the Azores
January 15, 2009, US Airways 1549, Airbus A320-200, (aka Miracle on the Hudson)

Last known location based on Malaysian military radar at the northern end of the Strait of Malacca/ southern end of Andaman Sea and then Nothing..

search team strongly believes in the Southern route

Could MH370 have been flown in a more south westerly direction, into the middle of the Indian Ocean, flying towards the Southern Ocean..far far far away from any land mass...????

And, could debris have washed up on the shores of Antarctica?
 
How has it been this long with no news?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Interesting. Mine goes into voicemail immediately if my phone is powered off. I wonder if it's dependent on the carriers.

If you pull the battery while the phone is on (if you have an iPhone, you are unable to test this) the phone will be off with no power BUT will not be able to send signal to the network that your phone is no longer aavailable. So when you call your cell phone it will continue to ring as if it was on and connected.
 
Seems to me, even if the plane could have glided to a landing on the water, it would implode once it reached a certain depth in the ocean, and debris would rise and float. 100 days, and still no shred of evidence the plane was ever in the water.
 
Seems to me, even if the plane could have glided to a landing on the water, it would implode once it reached a certain depth in the ocean, and debris would rise and float. 100 days, and still no shred of evidence the plane was ever in the water.

Objects that are air tight will implode because of a difference between internal & external pressure.

Some parts of the aircraft structure, like the wings and tail are not air tight, nor water tight.
While the engines are running & the plane is airborne, only the cabin is pressurized, to keep
internal pressure higher than external pressure ... it has seals to keep internal air from leaking outward.

When an aircraft lands on water, the seals would be weakened & probably rupture.
Then the higher external (water) pressure would leak inward &
flex the seals in the direction opposite to the designed intent.

Also the cabin is not really air tight either because it has a "leak rate" ...
which becomes very obvious once the engines stop running.

So that means water will enter the plane & it will sink intact ...
just like the Titanic did & was found intact at great depth.
 
Not sure if this has been posted, just found these two pieces of info interesting ...

Despite reports to contrary he said Zaharie did not attend Anwar’s adverse court verdict the day before the flight and was not incensed by the verdict.

“He was not there. He was at home repairing his bathroom door. That’s what my sister told me,” Mr Khan said of the afternoon before his departure. It was Mrs Khanum who told her husband of the result of the Anwar court case.

... Mr Khan says Capt Zaharie had stopped using the simulator about a year ago because it was corrupted and his wife had urged him to pack it away to make space in the house. He was proud of the simulator and it was no secret that had it in his home, even posting YouTube videos of it on the web.
http://www.news.com.au/world/missin...ce-family-insist/story-fndir2ev-1226954570853
 
Objects that are air tight will implode because of a difference between internal & external pressure.

Some parts of the aircraft structure, like the wings and tail are not air tight, nor water tight.
While the engines are running & the plane is airborne, only the cabin is pressurized, to keep
internal pressure higher than external pressure ... it has seals to keep internal air from leaking outward.

When an aircraft lands on water, the seals would be weakened & probably rupture.
Then the higher external (water) pressure would leak inward &
flex the seals in the direction opposite to the designed intent.

Also the cabin is not really air tight either because it has a "leak rate" ...
which becomes very obvious once the engines stop running.

So that means water will enter the plane & it will sink intact ...
just like the Titanic did & was found intact at great depth.

I have a feeling it will be found essentially intact (like the Titanic).
 
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