Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[BayouBelle_LA]

That photo in question was taken in February.

 

[mck16]

How long should it take from Torez to Karkiv on the train? Is there anyway to find out?

I heard a reporter say 7 hours by car, but I am not sure from what to point what point. They said they had changed the route for security. Are the planes in Karkiv or where? ty

 

[Texx]

Trying to wrap my head around all this....

Has anything more been mentioned about the second plane in the vacinity of flight MH17 just prior to the crash and the local alledging he saw two planes?

Further, now the UN have backed the resolution for the investigation, what happens if this is not adhered to? Do they tell all concerned to comply and if not then tell them they have been very naughty? The finger pointing and blame shifting will go on forever and a day when what is needed now is action. Can anyone clarify what action the UN security council can take here if any?

 

[BJsleuth]

How long should it take from Torez to Karkiv on the train? Is there anyway to find out?

Quoting myself :facepalm:

12 hours from Torez to Kharkiv

 

[BJsleuth]

I heard a reporter say 7 hours by car, but I am not sure from what to point what point. They said they had changed the route for security. Are the planes in Karkiv or where? ty

Yes, Australian and Dutch military transport standing by at Kharkiv!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Where is that darn missle? No tampering from the pro Russian rebels...prompt care of the bodies...no looting, no drunken mornings, as clean as a whistle...

Can't wait for this investigation to be over. jmo

 

[CARIIS]

Short clip Scroll down of train being loaded ------

Jet Wreckage Bears Signs of Impact by Supersonic Missile, Analysis Shows



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/w...click&contentCollection=Europe&pgtype=article

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/w...click&contentCollection=Europe&pgtype=article


OSCOW — Russia presented a combination of conciliation and bluster on Monday over its handling of the downed Malaysia Airlines jet, with President Vladimir V. Putin seemingly probing for a way out of the crisis without appearing to compromise with the West.On one hand, he offered conciliatory words in a video statement, oddly released in the middle of the night, ............

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/w...click&contentCollection=Europe&pgtype=article

 

[ElleElle]

How long should it take from Torez to Karkiv on the train? Is there anyway to find out?

Found this link..

http://www.luganskukraine.info/kiev-kharkov-train.aspx

 

[CARIIS]

Quoting myself :facepalm:

12 hours from Torez to Kharkiv

Funny

To err is human...............

 

[mck16]

If Putin admits that the rebels shot down the plane because they thought it was a Ukraine transport, what would the repercussions be? If he admits it was in error. ty

 

[Steely Dan]

If Putin admits that the rebels shot down the plane because they thought it was a Ukraine transport, what would the repercussions be? If he admits it was in error. ty

Well, IMO, things are much different now than if he had admitted it on day one. If on day one he had said that it was rogue elements within the separatists and cracked down on the guys who did it he might have escaped with minimal damage.

Now if he admits it then people are going to question why he didn't admit it sooner. JMO

 

[Meryl12]

The people behind all this are a desparetly poor people, but they all have great big (expensive) guns. Their way of life is so impoverished, I have no doubt they do not receive a pension, I doubt their government has a social security system, or unemployment benefit scheme. But they all have great big (expensive) guns.
It shows their priorities. :notgood:
And their priorities reflect their necessary way of life. Life in a war-zone is violent, human emotions are ignored, and social niceties don't exist. It is shoot or be shot.
I have no doubt the shoot or be shot mentality was the mentality of the person who shot down MH17.
Now the rest of the world has to placate them, just to get in and retrieve things. :rant:

 

[Harmony 2]

mod note:
Please add the source for images including attached photos... thanks!

 

[BJsleuth]

I just saw what Peter Van Viliet the Dutch investigator said and it was "I have watched the train and the wagons and I think the storage of the body is good of quality." He was only commenting on their storage in the cooled carriage and the work they had done on that. Looking for the silver lining in the dark cloud I believe.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

On radio as I was driving I heard this interview .. thought it was quite balanced and intelligent. Long story short we shouldn't be getting our hopes up about anything changing in the area any time soon ..

From beginning of interview:

ELEANOR HALL: Jack Squier worked at the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe and prior to that headed the Russia-Ukraine program at the National Endowment for Democracy.

North America correspondent Jane Cowan asked him whether the Security Council resolution will insure Russian cooperation.

JACK SQUIER: Well, I think it's very convenient for Russia. They have a resolution that they can sign onto, but at the same time, they've been very careful to maintain a formal separation between themselves and the so-called separatists, with a result that they will be able to blame the failure on the separatists and not on themselves and still claim that they are fully supporting of the resolution.

JANE COWAN: So it's not likely to make any real difference on the ground?

JACK SQUIER: No, I don't think that it will. It seems obvious from the behaviour of the separatists that there's something that the Russians are trying to hide in the wreckage.

They've been very careful to remove the black boxes and removing the bodies just seems frankly very cold, in the absence of some other rationale.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-22/un-security-council-resolution-wont-guarantee/5614832

Full audio and transcript at link.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I’m not sure that there is anything to be concerned about. I doubt that the west will humiliate the DNI about the document. We just want our people back. Malaysia also just want their plane back. Everyone realises that anything we do now is similar to what an abducted person would do to stay alive and get free.

JMO

Yes these are the criminals and terrorists, its akin to hostage negotiation until they come out with their hands up.

They have no right to be there, let alone being recognize.d

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

The people behind all this are a desparetly poor people, but they all have great big (expensive) guns. Their way of life is so impoverished, I have no doubt they do not receive a pension, I doubt their government has a social security system, or unemployment benefit scheme. But they all have great big (expensive) guns.
It shows their priorities. :notgood:
And their priorities reflect their necessary way of life. Life in a war-zone is violent, human emotions are ignored, and social niceties don't exist. It is shoot or be shot.
I have no doubt the shoot or be shot mentality was the mentality of the person who shot down MH17.
Now the rest of the world has to placate them, just to get in and retrieve things. :rant:

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:

 

[gramcracker]

My husband said that colleagues in his office said Malaysian Airlines owes money to the Russian Mafia.

JMO, but I think there are many "respectable" entities in this world that owe money to many mafias

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Grieving father of MH17 victim pens open letter to Putin

'Many thanks to the Separatist leaders of Ukrainian government for the murder of my dear and only child,' Hans de Borst writes

De Borst wasn't the only grieving Dutch parent to address Putin. - "No words can describe it," Fredriksz-Hoogzand continued. "Bodies are just lying there for three days in the hot sun. There are people who have this on their conscience. There are families who can never hold the body of a child or a mother."

http://news.yahoo.com/mh17-father-open-letter-putin-monster-131931565.html

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Jet Wreckage Bears Signs of Impact by Supersonic Missile, Analysis Shows

A piece of wreckage from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 that was shot down in eastern Ukraine last week bears telltale marks of small pieces of high-velocity shrapnel that apparently crippled the jet in flight. Riddled with these perforations and buffeted by a blast wave as it flew high above the conflict zone, the plane then most likely sheared apart.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/w...y-supersonic-missile-analysis-shows.html?_r=0