Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #2

[MsMiniSleuth]

If you woke


If you woke up disoriented, would you really wander off outside?! On your own? That’s before you’ve even considered any disabilities.

Yes. This is a person who does not process mental thoughts in a logical fashion as you might do, because they are limited in those capabilities. If you think of a young infant, they don't work out first if something is right or wrong, if safe or not, so who knows what she might have been trying to do or where she was trying to go. And as I have already said, if she was in a room up a winding spiral staircase, her mobility certainly didn't preclude her getting up the stairs, and in the same way, down again.

 

[jslk]

Questions: were the other resort houses forensically searched?

Is the resort being treated as a sealed, potential crime scene?

Where are owners and guests staying now?

 

[RachelZachary]

I am very much thinking along the same lines. She could not have been snatched from inside the lodge as you would think it would have alerted other members of the family.

She woke up at some point in the night, went downstairs and was probably lured outside by noise or something she had seen. Once far enough away from the accomodation she was either ambushed and instantly kidnapped or was led into deep jungle with a stranger. Given the terrain and the lack of a trail far away from the lodge there must had been some sort of getaway vehicle near to the vicinity so escape could be made well before sunrise.

I disagree. Plenty of cases exist when people have been taken without disturbance. This family in the first night and would have been so tired. Definitely a vehicle collected her.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I agree that this case is strange, and I'm sort of baffled by it, but there's a few aspects that make the timing and location quite suitable for an abduction.

• The place is remote with no security, locks on doors or CCTV. There is several rented houses, but they're separated by vegetation. Its very dark at night.
• A light may have been left on so the kids could find the bathroom during the night making it possible to see clearly into the house from the outside.
• Although it was reported Nora was asleep across from her siblings, who knows if this was the case later on in the night/early morning. She may have ended up sleeping downstairs on the couch and was spotted through the window.
• The window which was left open is out of the field of view from both the parents bedroom and the mezzanine. If Nora has issues dexterity issues (which seems to be the case) its unlikely she could open an unfamiliar window mechanism. There is a balcony overlooking the jungle if she wanted fresh air.
• It was possible to perform the abduction from the time they went to bed to the early morning hours, its actually quite a long time.
• The family were extremely tired after their journey, and likely in a deep sleep. There's also a window in the parents bedroom on the ground floor and the person could have walked around the property to confirm they were asleep.

Good point re light being left on so kids could find bathroom in pitch dark. Two things spring to mind. 1) Did Nora get disorientated in the pitch dark with no light left on at all and open the window instead of a door thinking it was the bathroom/her parents room? and 2) If a light was left on all those giant flying insects I've read about would flood into the place. Could be quite scarey

 

[Officer Dibble]

Questions: were the other resort houses forensically searched?

Is the resort being treated as a sealed, potential crime scene?

Where are owners and guests staying now?

iirc I read they are in the same house with security outside

 

[Mrs Marple]

I don't think there is next to no chance she's wandered off. It's possible. What seems very unlikely is she could have got that far.

I hope this is going to have some resolution, a happy one, but at least something. Feeling awful for her parents.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I am very much thinking along the same lines. She could not have been snatched from inside the lodge as you would think it would have alerted other members of the family.

She woke up at some point in the night, went downstairs and was probably lured outside by noise or something she had seen. Once far enough away from the accomodation she was either ambushed and instantly kidnapped or was led into deep jungle with a stranger. Given the terrain and the lack of a trail far away from the lodge there must had been some sort of getaway vehicle near to the vicinity so escape could be made well before sunrise.

Except yesterday there were links here that said Nora couldn't open windows by herself but i cant remember if that included doors

 

[HayLouise]

@jackiefox_ will be bringing us the latest from Malaysia coming up on @RTENewsAtOne shortly....

Joan O'Sullivan on Twitter

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Okay; so were the footprints found to be barefoot or from the day before (possibly wearing shoes then?)

Barefoot footprints

 

[RachelZachary]

If you look at the evidence, the facts, there is no way she wandered off on her own and is just out there somewhere. I can’t understand how anyone can think that?! Sorry, but let’s get realistic. IF by some chance she got out on her own, she’s dead under some obscure wilderness.

 

[HayLouise]

Such a mystery how #NoraQuoirin can disappear. The last time anyone actually dissapeared after going into the forest was runner Acap in Gopeng. After a month of searching and they found no signs of him.

Ooi Beng Cheang on Twitter

 

[sundaaaay]

I don't think there is next to no chance she's wandered off. It's possible. What seems very unlikely is she could have got that far.

I hope this is going to have some resolution, a happy one, but at least something. Feeling awful for her parents.

I agree, there's still a possibility she wandered off but I can't imagine how she would have gone so far, because search parties were out in the jungle the next day. Its more likely she'd panic and start crying, going around in circles than deeper into the jungle.

I have a gut feeling someone responsible is a teenager, someone who worked at the resort once, or a kid/relation of the owners family. I think its got to be someone very familiar with the layout of the houses.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

The sound of a truck in the night in a resort with no staff on duty sounds like a kid napping.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I'm starting to wonder now, given that the footprints didn't get very far, that what has happened is a combination of what we are all supposing.

Could it be......She got up in the very pitch dark to go to the toilet in the night (or possibly if a light was left on for children, was being bombarded with giant flying insects and wanted to escape) , got disorientated downstairs, somehow magically opened the window that her mum says she couldn't have opened, stepped into what she thought was the bathroom or her parents room and ended up outside. She walked so far, couldn't find her way back in the pitch dark. At which point she bumps into someone nefarious with a truck (3am truck sound reported) who said to her 'come with me, I will take you to your mum', but obviously didn't. Just my opinion given the footprints stopping and the truck noise at 3am.

Also if it was a planned Paedo kidnapping I think they would go for the youngest child. I think poor Nora has been a symptom of a wrong place, wrong time scenario.

Whatever has happened, it is heartbreaking.

 

[Hjp]

The case has gone on now for well over 8 days. I'd have to say that the chances of her being found alive now are slim: less than <20%. Surely by the end of the week, if the police have not called off the search by then, in all liklihood, we would be looking for a body.

Nora will be instantly recognisable all over the Malay peninsula by now. If she is being held by somebody I hope she hasn't endured any sexual violence or torture.

If she is already deceased, the sooner she is found the more answers her family is likely to get becouse right now they have nothing.

 

[Mrs Marple]

It just seems like such a massive coincidence that a nefarious person was there in the pitch black middle of nowhere, where the slightest sound could be heard, and Nora just wandered into them. But l also don't think she's been taken direct after less than 24 hours in resort, that's not enough time for the habits and sleeping arrangements to be observed.

 

[RachelZachary]

Yes. This is a person who does not process mental thoughts in a logical fashion as you might do, because they are limited in those capabilities. If you think of a young infant, they don't work out first if something is right or wrong, if safe or not, so who knows what she might have been trying to do or where she was trying to go. And as I have already said, if she was in a room up a winding spiral staircase, her mobility certainly didn't preclude her getting up the stairs, and in the same way, down again.

She’s more well travelled than my own child, as an ‘average’ there’s no way he would venture outside on his own into a Malaysian jungle a few hours after we arrived. <modsnip>

 

[Officer Dibble]

It just seems like such a massive coincidence that a nefarious person was there in the pitch black middle of nowhere, where the slightest sound could be heard, and Nora just wandered into them. But l also don't think she's been taken direct after less than 24 hours in resort, that's not enough time for the habits and sleeping arrangements to be observed.

Only suggested it because of the report of a truck at 3am. Did the truck run her over in the dark?

 

[sundaaaay]

I'm starting to wonder now, given that the footprints didn't get very far, that what has happened is a combination of what we are all supposing.

Could it be......She got up in the very pitch dark to go to the toilet in the night (or possibly if a light was left on for children, was being bombarded with giant flying insects and wanted to escape) , got disorientated downstairs, somehow magically opened the window that her mum says she couldn't have opened, stepped into what she thought was the bathroom or her parents room and ended up outside. She walked so far, couldn't find her way back in the pitch dark. At which point she bumps into someone nefarious with a truck (3am truck sound reported) who said to her 'come with me, I will take you to your mum', but obviously didn't. Just my opinion given the footprints stopping and the truck noise at 3am.

Also if it was a planned Paedo kidnapping I think they would go for the youngest child. I think poor Nora has been a symptom of a wrong place, wrong time scenario.

Whatever has happened, it is heartbreaking.

Although not impossible, this would have been a series of unfortunate events.

Nora being bombarded by bugs is obviously a possibility.

But instead of waking her family members, she out of character opens a window, even though something we know she cant do properly. She leaves the comfort of house and family into the pitch black jungle without making a sound.

When outside she comes across a paedophile by chance who happens to be waiting there, who drove her away.

Or what if someone nearby the resort always looks through windows, some sort of voyeur, who watches girls undress, decides to take it a step further and abduct an easy target.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Although not impossible, this would have been a series of unfortunate events.

Nora being bombarded by bugs is obviously a possibility.

But instead of waking her family members, she out of character opens a window, even though something we know she cant do properly. She leaves the comfort of house and family into the pitch black jungle without making a sound.

When outside she comes across a paedophile by chance who happens to be waiting there, who drove her away.

Or what if someone nearby the resort always looks through windows, some sort of voyeur, who watches girls undress, decides to take it a step further and abduct an easy target.

OR she gets run over by the truck. They panic and take Nora?