Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

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Ruthbullock said:
Was it the parents who said she couldn’t walk far, or the charity who supported them? It’s been implied it was the parents, but they were being supported by the charity and could have been encouraged to say that or chosen to say it themselves to make her disappearance being voluntarily less likely.. It’s still a massive error and could have made a world of difference in hindsight to finding Nora.
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The Lucy Blackman Trust was speaking for the family to the media very early. Because the testimony at the inquest said that the parents told the officers that she could not walk very far, I assume it came from the parents. I went back to the first thread and, as I recalled, accurate and detailed information about Nora’s disabilities was very slow to come out publicly. It was clear that the family was frustrated that the police were treating Nora’s disappearance as voluntary. You could be right that her disabilities were exaggerated to make her voluntary disappearance less likely. If that’s the case, it could have cost Nora her life. :(
 
Oh no. That's very unfortunate. For some reason, I had a feeling the parents were not being super cooperative. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it does seem that they failed to accurately describe Nora and her disabilities. She might have be found earlier on. Poor kid. Maybe they thought that saying she couldn't walk very far without any assistance would rule out a runaway scenario and speed things up, who knows.
 
The inquest will not last as long as I previously read - it will be 9 days in total



The inquest proceedings will take place for two weeks from Monday to August 28 and will resume on Sept 1 to 4 before Coroner Maimoonah Aid.


A total of 64 witnesses will be called to testify to assist in the investigation.


Inquest: CCTV footage shows Nora Anne could walk normally | New Straits Times
 
Ardoch said:
Background info needed also to what some tabloids are saying as no 'serious' injury on N's feet to 'no injuries' at all.
I hope that the PM was thorough with supporting photographic evidence.
I find it difficult to think that N - shoe-less, would not have some foot injuries. The terrain - jungle, with thick undergrowth; bamboo stalks; sheer drops in places and N with learning difficulties, who as time wore on, would become disorientated and scrambling about. JMO IMO
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Just reposting this from last year - comments from one of the search team re the vegetation



A volunteer member of the search team said it would have been "impossible" for the barefoot 15-year-old to cross the dense jungle on her own.
The treacherous gradients and dense vegetation surrounding the place where Nora was found would have been "impossible" for her to reach.
The volunteer, who is an expert on the area surrounding the remote Lata Berembum waterfall, said: "Nora couldn’t have got there by herself.
"I struggled to walk. The path is difficult even for an able-bodied person.
"Dense vegetation snags your feet. The average gradient of the slopes where Nora was found range from 20 to 40 per cent.
"You have to cross two reasonably deep streams to reach the area where she was found.


Nora Quoirin cops ‘took desperate family to medium who pleaded with spirits to return missing teen’ during flawed search
 
MimosaMornings said:
If it was that difficult for one able bodied person, how would someone be able to carry Nora and place her in that spot?
Without any disturbance to ground/vegetation?
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Interesting point I hadn’t considered before. Would also add the description of the day they found the body stated it took 10 minutes to reach the body from the roadblock at the resort (and they were following voices to locate the search party). Whilst I’m not suggesting it was easy- I’m not sure it’s quite as difficult as this unnamed volunteer stated.
 
This case is so full of unsubstantiated reporting top to bottom it's impossible to even rationally form a clear opinion on. If there were any current closed case on websleuths that I'd watch a youtube documentary on it would be this one. I'd very much like to see video of the suite, of the resort, of the landscape, of the location the body was found. I'd like to hear interviews with the English speaking liaisons in local law enforcement and I'd even like for the first hand witnesses to give accounts in Malay to be translated by actual translators.

I am 100% positive there's lots and lots more to this story than what we've been told and 80% positive that some of what we've been told is intentionally exaggerated if not outright false.
 
evilwise said:
This case is so full of unsubstantiated reporting top to bottom it's impossible to even rationally form a clear opinion on. If there were any current closed case on websleuths that I'd watch a youtube documentary on it would be this one. I'd very much like to see video of the suite, of the resort, of the landscape, of the location the body was found. I'd like to hear interviews with the English speaking liaisons in local law enforcement and I'd even like for the first hand witnesses to give accounts in Malay to be translated by actual translators.

I am 100% positive there's lots and lots more to this story than what we've been told and 80% positive that some of what we've been told is intentionally exaggerated if not outright false.
Click to expand...
Right? This case is so... interesting. All parts involved seem to be keeping things close to the vest.
 
evilwise said:
This case is so full of unsubstantiated reporting top to bottom it's impossible to even rationally form a clear opinion on. If there were any current closed case on websleuths that I'd watch a youtube documentary on it would be this one. I'd very much like to see video of the suite, of the resort, of the landscape, of the location the body was found. I'd like to hear interviews with the English speaking liaisons in local law enforcement and I'd even like for the first hand witnesses to give accounts in Malay to be translated by actual translators.

I am 100% positive there's lots and lots more to this story than what we've been told and 80% positive that some of what we've been told is intentionally exaggerated if not outright false.
Click to expand...


Fairly sure we have posted up pics of the house - Sora - where the family stayed, in one of the earlier threads. Plus there are - or were - some vids of the area and the search parties. I will have a hunt through my files later.

Google Sora House, Dusun Resort for pics.
Interestingly, on the Dusun website, their info still says they have 7 houses, but only 6 are showing - Sora is missing ?

Tropical Rainforest Resort | the Dusun


FA_DusunMap_v3_170531-copy.jpg
 

Is this the "house"? Wow, not at all what I was visualizing. This is not the kind of place built for a six and a half foot tall white guy. I could see myself after a couple beers literally falling right off it and directly into the jungle. On the other hand, I can't imagine sleeping through my child getting up and moving around in it either.

Apparently a 2012 Malaysian film "Aku Terima Nikahnya" ("I Accept The Marriage") was filmed there which suggests to me there are probably good roads leading to it that are just concealed on the aerial images.

Looking at lots of pics of Nora, too. She doesn't strike me as someone with dramatically limited mobility. She's standing fine on her own, her feet are squared and shoulder width. Her face exhibits nearly none of the characteristics of holoprosencephaly other than perhaps very mildly atypical formation of her nose and upper lip which I understand to indicate normal or nearly normal brain development. Overall her photos give me an impression of someone with moderate autism and I am personally aware of one adolescent with somewhat severe autism who I think would definitely strip naked and run through the jungle if he had the opportunity. I bet he also has really tough feet.
 
evilwise said:

Is this the "house"? Wow, not at all what I was visualizing. This is not the kind of place built for a six and a half foot tall white guy. I could see myself after a couple beers literally falling right off it and directly into the jungle. On the other hand, I can't imagine sleeping through my child getting up and moving around in it either.

Apparently a 2012 Malaysian film "Aku Terima Nikahnya" ("I Accept The Marriage") was filmed there which suggests to me there are probably good roads leading to it that are just concealed on the aerial images.

Looking at lots of pics of Nora, too. She doesn't strike me as someone with dramatically limited mobility. She's standing fine on her own, her feet are squared and shoulder width. Her face exhibits nearly none of the characteristics of holoprosencephaly other than perhaps very mildly atypical formation of her nose and upper lip which I understand to indicate normal or nearly normal brain development. Overall her photos give me an impression of someone with moderate autism and I am personally aware of one adolescent with somewhat severe autism who I think would definitely strip naked and run through the jungle if he had the opportunity. I bet he also has really tough feet.
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There was a lot of discussion earlier on about the house- it wasn’t somewhere I would personally have taken my child with additional needs as I would have struggled to keep them safe. The rear of the house to the balcony is open and has no physical way of being secured, the front door didn’t have a lock on. You made a very accurate point about sensory issues/ Autism and bare feet and how tough they are.
With regards the resort we took our child to a hilly resort (fully paved) with mobility issues after less than 5 minutes of walking she was struggling and aching and we had to call it a day. Could she get further alone with no adults to help- probably as she would be in fight mode desperate to get home. The waterfall walk was via a signposted path- there were videos and photos available of the path online. I still think that was probably her original intention and at some point she has been distracted and lost her way and only walked a little distance each day further into the jungle.
 
evilwise said:
This case is so full of unsubstantiated reporting top to bottom it's impossible to even rationally form a clear opinion on. If there were any current closed case on websleuths that I'd watch a youtube documentary on it would be this one. I'd very much like to see video of the suite, of the resort, of the landscape, of the location the body was found. I'd like to hear interviews with the English speaking liaisons in local law enforcement and I'd even like for the first hand witnesses to give accounts in Malay to be translated by actual translators.

I am 100% positive there's lots and lots more to this story than what we've been told and 80% positive that some of what we've been told is intentionally exaggerated if not outright false.
Click to expand...
So much we don't know and what we do know is a puzzle.
 
Alyce said:
A volunteer member of the search team said it would have been "impossible" for the barefoot 15-year-old to cross the dense jungle on her own.
The treacherous gradients and dense vegetation surrounding the place where Nora was found would have been "impossible" for her to reach.
The volunteer, who is an expert on the area surrounding the remote Lata Berembum waterfall, said: "Nora couldn’t have got there by herself.
"I struggled to walk. The path is difficult even for an able-bodied person.
"Dense vegetation snags your feet. The average gradient of the slopes where Nora was found range from 20 to 40 per cent.
"You have to cross two reasonably deep streams to reach the area where she was found.


Nora Quoirin cops ‘took desperate family to medium who pleaded with spirits to return missing teen’ during flawed search
Click to expand...
Sorry this is a terrible image, but when someone is starving, they're crawling, they no longer have the energy to stand up.
 
Satchie said:
Sorry this is a terrible image, but when someone is starving, they're crawling, they no longer have the energy to stand up.
Click to expand...

True about crawling, which would mean Nora would have had more injuries to her knees and the tops of her feet and hands than has been claimed. I still think there is a good chance she was taken (carried?) to a hidden location, left to starve, and then laid out by the creek when she died. Why or by whom I couldn’t say. I hope I’m wrong and that this was just a terrible adventure gone wrong.
 
Lilibet said:
True about crawling, which would mean Nora would have had more injuries to her knees and the tops of her feet and hands than has been claimed. I still think there is a good chance she was taken (carried?) to a hidden location, left to starve, and then laid out by the creek when she died. Why or by whom I couldn’t say. I hope I’m wrong and that this was just a terrible adventure gone wrong.
Click to expand...
I almost agreed with you about the injuries to hands and knees- but there is a reason babies don’t have scuffs and cuts all over themselves even when crawling around outdoors- it’s a really low and gentle impact on an area of the body designed to be crawled on, your body weight is massively reduced as well on each part of the body. Toddlers however have plenty of cuts and bruises once they walk as they create a lot more friction when they fall or trip.
 
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