Maricopa Jane Doe 1999 Thread #5

[dee10134]

You know, I've wondered what happened to all her other things, where she was living at the time of her death. Where ever she was living, someone must have realized she never came back. If it was at a hotel, what happened to her stuff?

She was probably living with her pimp.....

 

[fmw63]

...where he was arrested...Good thinking.

I bet Detective could find out for us.

I just sent him a message about that. And he said not a bad idea about the clothing brands.

 

[Zanko]

I've worked with the homeless population for many years. Although I definitely agree that the clothing should be followed up on, it is all too possible that she got the clothing at a second hand shop or through a social service agency. I've seen brand name clothing being donated for "at risk youth" and the homeless. Sometimes the clothing is a decade old, but in excellent condition. But it is worth a try.

 

[VASHLEY88]

I've worked with the homeless population for many years. Although I definitely agree that the clothing should be followed up on, it is all too possible that she got the clothing at a second hand shop or through a social service agency. I've seen brand name clothing being donated for "at risk youth" and the homeless. Sometimes the clothing is a decade old, but in excellent condition. But it is worth a try.

True. It's even possible she was borrowing them from somebody. But who?!

I remember I told you guys that I had watched a few documentaries a few months back, and one was about children in the sex trade. The pimps had actually brought bags of clothing and shoes for the girls to change into, usually pretty provocative clothing, because I'm sure some runaways aren't already wearing "suggestive" attire (for example, if the runaway is wearing jeans and a hoodie, that doesn't make them look like a prostitute so they wouldn't have many clients). So the clothes she was wearing may have not been her original clothing. It was January, too. I'm sure she didn't leave wherever she came from wearing "skimpy" clothes! It does get cold in the desert.. especially at night.

 

[fmw63]

KSAZ doesn't have video clips going back that far, neither does the video monitoring service they referred me to. Any ideas?

 

[SweetDreamOfYou]

Hi I am new, but have been following this case for sometime.
I don't suppose anyone knows what the ring looks like yet, but if its a signet ring and engraved traditionally, the last initial will be in the center with the first and second on either side, above and below or in a bar dexter pattern.

i know its not much but it could change what initials you are actually looking for.
any way looking forward to getting to know you all,

terri

 

[Cubby]

here are some reviews of the place I wonder who wrote the 1st review ??? The OWNERS???

one of Valley's newest hidden gems. Nestled away in the heart of downtown Phoenix, the ****is a safe and affordable family getaway!!!


This is wrong people should be warned of Hotels/motels like this housing sex offenders!!!!

I was wrong in the 1st post it is a HOTEL not MOTEL

here is another review

is essentially an extended stay for the homeless - not a "hotel" in the traditional sense. It is NOT new - It was old 30 years ago when I worked in that area. I give it a neutral rating because it delivers on what it promises. A safe place for the down and out to stay.

here is a link in case anyone is vacationing in Phoenix and wants a hotel

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...ew_Windsor_Hotel-Phoenix_Arizona.html#REVIEWS

I saw this yesterday along with the *raving* review one very bright person added recommending the hotel as being family friendly. Well, we know Lipsey ain't staying at the Phoenician.

Has anyone besides me had difficulty finding KL on the current list of RSO's for Phoenix? I could not find him by name or zip code. I'm certain he still BELONGS listed!

 

[Cubby]

KSAZ doesn't have video clips going back that far, neither does the video monitoring service they referred me to. Any ideas?

Finding the journalist who did the interview, if we know who that is? argh! No ideas.... why isn't this stuff archived? ARGH! I wonder if anything might be in the archives at the local PHX libraries.... if we have anyone local.

 

[dee10134]

Finding the journalist who did the interview, if we know who that is? argh! No ideas.... why isn't this stuff archived? ARGH! I wonder if anything might be in the archives at the local PHX libraries.... if we have anyone local.

Couldn't an investigator just show the car dealership owner a photo of Alonzo and a photo of Lipsey in a lineup and see if he can pick out the one he saw?

 

[dee10134]

I've worked with the homeless population for many years. Although I definitely agree that the clothing should be followed up on, it is all too possible that she got the clothing at a second hand shop or through a social service agency. I've seen brand name clothing being donated for "at risk youth" and the homeless. Sometimes the clothing is a decade old, but in excellent condition. But it is worth a try.

Zanko, that is a possibility, but I don't believe MJD was homeless in the technical sense of the term. She seems to have been well taken care of. She wouldn't have been able to rent a hotel or motel room on her own because of her age. Generally, you have to be 18 to rent a room and you have to have a credit card, even at the seedier motels.

I honestly believe her pimp was taking good care of her and probably had her living with him. Maybe she was the best worker he had and he rewarded her well for it.

Who knows? It's good to explore every possibility though. Leave no stone unturned, as they say.

 

[Teresa Larson]

I saw this yesterday along with the *raving* review one very bright person added recommending the hotel as being family friendly. Well, we know Lipsey ain't staying at the Phoenician.

Has anyone besides me had difficulty finding KL on the current list of RSO's for Phoenix? I could not find him by name or zip code. I'm certain he still BELONGS listed!

When I was looking through the court records/minutes from one of Kelly's hearings. They were trying to make him register as a sex offender but some how his attorney got him out of it.

 

[Cubby]

When I was looking through the court records/minutes from one of Kelly's hearings. They were trying to make him register as a sex offender but some how his attorney got him out of it.

TL, he was registered in 2005. I wonder what changed. I read that AZ lists only level II and III offenders. KL would surely fit into that class... unless his atty got the level down to I- which doesn't fit given his criminal history. Hopefully after his current case he will be back on the list where he belongs!

 

[BethInAK]

Zanko, that is a possibility, but I don't believe MJD was homeless in the technical sense of the term. She seems to have been well taken care of. She wouldn't have been able to rent a hotel or motel room on her own because of her age. Generally, you have to be 18 to rent a room and you have to have a credit card, even at the seedier motels.

I think these types of motels take cash. I know a homeless man here in town who pools his day labor money with friends to get a hotel room on the weeks they are not allowed in the homeless shelter (you have to do one month out for every three months in). Neither he nor his friends have credit cards - they dont' have jobs, or addresses or post office boxes. They pay cash for rooms.

 

[Julessleuther]

Has anyone tried to get in touch with RAs? I am curious as to why they knew so much?

IIRC from the LE report it was RA, a neighbor residing in the Van Buren area interviewed by LE, who gave the information that MJD's street name was Carla or Cory. That RA also tried to talk MJD out of prostitution, and provided LE with the information that MJD had applied to be a dancer at a strip club but was denied because of her age, only 15. RA, also provided the possible pimp as KTL and it was she who made the statement that MJD's pimp was the guy who was arrested from "back east" for trafficking the 13 yr old and a few other teenage minors. None of that info came from LDJ.

I'm still confused on who the manager of the car dealer saw on TV. Was it Alonzo who was interviewed on the news after the accident. I thought, that was who the car dealer saw fighting with the two girls, one who's clothing resembled what MJD was wearing that same day.

IMO, MJD was new to the streets, LDJ and Alonzo were familiar with her and attempted to recruit her. MJD had no street drugs in her system, and perhaps she was so incredibly scared after LDJ and Alonzo were high, IF she willingly jumped, she was in fear for her life and saw no other option thinking Alonzo would kill her. I think he slapped her around before she left the car, but am not convinved LDJ and Alonzo knew her real name. They may however have bits and pieces of information they have not shared to narrow an area or other relevent info in idy'ng MJD. though that's just my opinion.

 

[Julessleuther]

Do we know who the 13 yr old was, and where she came from exactly?

I received a reply from the Phoenix outreach program that handles services for streetkids:

Dear Believe,

Thank you for your email. I am copying our program assistant, xxxx, on this email as she may be able to assist as well. Was it in 1999 that the girl passed away? If it was that long ago, we may have a harder time finding volunteers or kids from that time who may have known her, but we can try.

Thank you for contacting us. It is good to know that there are those who are working to preserve these lives, even in memoriam.


xxxx

I sent her a reply:

Dear Ms. xxxx-

How kind of you to write me back! Yes, she died in January of 1999. I knew it would be a stretch to reach out to you, but we have been working so hard to put a name to her face I felt I had to try.

What might make this worthwhile is that the man who might have been responsible for her street activity is still in operation in the Phoenix area, although at the moment he is currently behind bars. When our Jane Doe lost her life, KTL was charged with trafficking under-aged girls for sex. He was found with a 13 year old that he had brought from the East Coast. Fast forward almost 10 years later and he has continued to be charged for pandering, receiving money from a prostitute etc...

Our child was picked up on Van Buren at what was the Ajax Mini Mart. She was picked up by a man named ADF and his girlfriend/prostitute LDJ. They sat in the front seat of his vehicle, with our Jane Doe between them. They made a stop at a house outside of Phoenix and then pulled onto I-10. At mile marker 173, witnesses saw the vehicle swerving all over the highway and the driver reaching into the back seat. The next thing the witnesses saw was a female arm, and then an entire body fly out the window, hit the highway and roll over and over. Our Jane Doe died from head trauma, but had no other broken bones. She was beautifully groomed and wearing real gold jewelry with real diamonds. She had a home made tattoo over one breast that was a 1x1" blue heart. She had long hair, blond with substantial brown roots and blue eyes. She had never been pregnant and showed no sign of sexual trauma. She had no street drugs in her system. Her teeth were in good repair. She was 5'4" and between 120-130lbs. She was probably between 13-15 years of age; she had reportedly attempted to get a job as a dancer in the weeks leading up to her death but was turned down because she was not 16.

The occupants of the car ran from the scene and were pulled over 20 miles later. They claimed she had never stated her name and that she crawled across LDJ's lap and jumped out of the window because she was afraid to leave Phoenix. ADF was charged with failing to render aid and LDJ was never charged. Further investigation revealed sources that stated KTL was our Jane Doe's pimp....there were witnesses that worked and or lived at various locations on Van Buren that had either spoken with Jane Doe or noticed her. No one seemed to be able to remember a name.

This brings us to where we are today-I have morgue photos, and artists renditions of her. I want to make sure that you are either OK with seeing both, or that you would prefer the artist renderings of her....there is nothing gory about her photos, but they do have an absence of life that is always disturbing.

I appreciate any energy you can devote to this case; I am happy to add your organization to the resources we make available on our website!

Please take care.

Sincerely,

 

[Zanko]

I agree with previous posts. I don't think that MJD was living on the streets or in a shelter. (If she was in a shelter, someone surely would have recognized her and come forward.)

If someone doesn't have a permanent address (living in a hotel/motel, couch surfing...) they may be considered "homeless" (depending on the program). A lot of the "homeless" teens are living very transient lifestyles and end up trading sex for a place to stay. They may shower daily and wear clean clothes.

I guess I was using the "broad" definition of homeless. I should say "transient" rather than homeless, but the word "transient" usually conjures up a very negative stereotype of someone destitute looking, standing on the street corner with a cardboard sign. The reality is that the majority of the "homeless" don't stand out at all.

 

[Teresa Larson]

TL, he was registered in 2005. I wonder what changed. I read that AZ lists only level II and III offenders. KL would surely fit into that class... unless his atty got the level down to I- which doesn't fit given his criminal history. Hopefully after his current case he will be back on the list where he belongs!

You are correct I read he was suppose to register as a sex offender. One judge said no but then another judge said yes. That was in 2005. I think his lawyer must have gotten it reversed or something because he isn't registered now if you do a search. I also see he has a federal case pending. He goes back to court in August. He might get sent away for awhile this time. I have been wondering if he really did know who MJD was. A part of me thinks if he did then he could have used IDing her as a bargaining tool - leverage but again maybe his lawyer told him it wasn't a good idea and that saying he knew her would only make it worse for him. I have tried looking at this from every possible angle.

 

[Teresa Larson]

What about asking somebody that lives close to go to the library and look at the old newspaper articles about the accident and the article about Kelly Lipsey getting arrested prior to the accident. If there was any. Maybe there would be a picture of KL.

 

[christine2448]

What about asking somebody that lives close to go to the library and look at the old newspaper articles about the accident and the article about Kelly Lipsey getting arrested prior to the accident. If there was any. Maybe there would be a picture of KL.

I think it 's a great idea if someone local could get all copies of anything in 'print' that is unavailable to us via the net.

 

[Cubby]

Julesleuther, I think the answers to your most recent two questions are still now, but the detective is working on last was posted.

TL: A part of me thinks if he did then he could have used IDing her as a bargaining tool - leverage but again maybe his lawyer told him it wasn't a good idea and that saying he knew her would only make it worse for him.

I think the second half where I bolded is most likely. Now, we don't know what is going on behind the scenes with LE with this case being re-opened, the reporter Christine was in contact with KL's pending case. Hopefully there is something in the mix going on with that right now.....